What you collect sucks: featuring The Walking Dead #1

[chrisco37]

The series is great and the book is hot. Especially with the popularity of the show.

 

However, it does kind of seem reminescent of Ultimate Spidey White as far as prices go. I think WD will hold value, but I would expect to see some correction at some point.

 

I have a harder time wrapping my head around the demand for #19 and 27. #19 I get a bit as Michionne is the #2 character in the book (after Rick). I don't get the Governor quite as much. Yeah, he was a cool baddie for them to have to face. But not much more than that. It's been awhile since I've read it, but wasn't he in maybe 2 arcs? That's it. I guess every series needs to have "keys".

 

 

[Junkdrawer]

I know nothing about this book. Literally nothing. Except I just saw that a CGC 8.0 sold for $400+, which seems insane to me.

 

Am I ignorant? Is the buyer retarded? Am I retarded?

How about a quick scan of your best book

[USArmyParatrooper]

I know nothing about this book. Literally nothing. Except I just saw that a CGC 8.0 sold for $400+, which seems insane to me.

 

Am I ignorant? Is the buyer retarded? Am I retarded?

 

moderns are such a funny beast.

 

you never know what the general collecting public will go ga-ga over...

 

This book is basically this generation's Death of Superman all over again.

 

And just like those individuals that paid a thousand times over guide for a copy

these will mimic them again when they show up at a LCS years later kicking cans because

they can't retire off of this one comic book investment.

 

 

 

I don't think the two are really compatible. "Death" of Superman was a gimmick that had an insane amount of media coverage and massive print runs. Walking Dead 1 was very low print and its popularity stands on its own merit.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I picked up one of the Walking Dead trades at a thrift store a few years back. I had sworn off comics in the 90's and had no desire to spend another dime on one. I read it and I was hooked. It re-kindled the love I had for comics before I got burned out. In fact, it drew me to pre-code horror and to the black and white horror magazines. Since then I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on silver and golden age books, much of that here on the boards. I assume there are others like me.

 

The Walking Dead and the Punisher Max series are what got me back into comics after I stopped buying in the early 90's. I'd watched a few of the Walking Dead episodes and a friend mentioned that it was based on a comic book. I ended up reading the first 25 or 30 issues and I was hooked again on collecting comics from Golden to Modern Age. It's nice to be back.

 

Always love seeing folks return to the hobby.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I would never, ever advise someone they should buy a 9.9 New Mutants 98 for the current market price. I don't know what I would do if I got one back from CGC because I wouldn't want to give the impression that I condone the price. I'd probably just ship it off to an auction somewhere far away. But I feel very comfortable with the price of a 9.8 Walking Dead #1. Why is that?

 

Why, because its steadily increased on a month-to-month, year-to-year basis, or at the very least, has found a steady range with each sale.

 

Unlike, you know, New Mutants # 98 in 9.9 which has managed to go down double digit percentages in value with every subsequent sale.

 

 

[Dick Pontoon]

I know nothing about this book. Literally nothing. Except I just saw that a CGC 8.0 sold for $400+, which seems insane to me.

 

Am I ignorant? Is the buyer retarded? Am I retarded?

How about a quick scan of your best book

 

I believe it would currently look like this:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Claudio]

The series is great and the book is hot. Especially with the popularity of the show.

 

However, it does kind of seem reminescent of Ultimate Spidey White as far as prices go. I think WD will hold value, but I would expect to see some correction at some point.

 

I have a harder time wrapping my head around the demand for #19 and 27. #19 I get a bit as Michionne is the #2 character in the book (after Rick). I don't get the Governor quite as much. Yeah, he was a cool baddie for them to have to face. But not much more than that. It's been awhile since I've read it, but wasn't he in maybe 2 arcs? That's it. I guess every series needs to have "keys".

 

 

#2 character in the book? She might be popular but she is a pretty minor character.

[COI]

Those people are clearly crazy.

 

It's possible that they buy knowing they can sell it on ebay, if the need arises, and I would bet lots of money that those copies will eventually end up on there. That wouldn't make them speculators per se.

 

Really? I doubt they are any crazier than any of us who spend ANY money on comics. I'd venture to say they are no more crazy than the guy that spent $2.1 million dollars for an Action 1.

 

For new collectors and seasoned collectors alike, I often wonder how buying habits would change if the liquidity, or perceived liquidity, of these books was completely removed from the equation.

It is pretty obvious from this premise that you have no faith in Walking Dead holding its value. Frankly it isn't a book I would invest in either. But I don't assume that these sales are purely investment driven. It is a really good comic. Folks like it. Alot. And people want to have a copy of the first issue. By ragging on the folks that are buying it with the argument that it is a lousy investment aren't you simply assuming that they are only interested in the investment potential, and therefore somehow driven by a purpose somehow less worthy? And isn't that, is some small way, hypocritical on your part? Especially in light of the fact that we know you derive a great deal of enjoyment out of comics simply because of what they are, regardless of price. View some of these Walking Dead enthusiasts the same light and maybe you will understand why.

 

Richard, I think this whole thread is just Angie yanking your chain.

 

Bored, Law school drained his brain, or he hasn't played the Angel of Light lately, but he's got to be having a good laugh at all the responses he's gotten tonight.

 

just my 2 coppers.

I think young Andrew enjoys the conversation. And it is a legitimate issue. We see a constant barrage of prices for back issue comics. Some of those prices take us by surprise. We judge them based on the information we have. We also judge them based on our personal preferences. And from that we give advice. I would never, ever advise someone they should buy a 9.9 New Mutants 98 for the current market price. I don't know what I would do if I got one back from CGC because I wouldn't want to give the impression that I condone the price. I'd probably just ship it off to an auction somewhere far away. But I feel very comfortable with the price of a 9.8 Walking Dead #1. Why is that?

 

You're both right. I started this thread as a chain-yank, but it actually turned into an interesting discussion, and I respect Richard, so I am enjoying the convo.

[goldust40]

I started this thread as a chain-yank

 

Welcome back, COI. Transparent as your motives are, for some reason you always initiate interesting threads. Keep on yanking.

[Wally's Comics]

I started this thread as a chain-yank

 

Welcome back, COI. Transparent as your motives are, for some reason you always initiate interesting threads. Keep on yanking.

 

Cpt. Red Pants is READY!

 

 

 

[chrisco37]

The series is great and the book is hot. Especially with the popularity of the show.

 

However, it does kind of seem reminescent of Ultimate Spidey White as far as prices go. I think WD will hold value, but I would expect to see some correction at some point.

 

I have a harder time wrapping my head around the demand for #19 and 27. #19 I get a bit as Michionne is the #2 character in the book (after Rick). I don't get the Governor quite as much. Yeah, he was a cool baddie for them to have to face. But not much more than that. It's been awhile since I've read it, but wasn't he in maybe 2 arcs? That's it. I guess every series needs to have "keys".

 

 

#2 character in the book? She might be popular but she is a pretty minor character.

 

I only read the trades, so I don't jump into the WD Discussion threads and don't know what people think about who is popular/important. As I read it (the series), she seems to be the #2 character to me. Rick is really the only main character. Michionne stands out to me, hence my #2 designation.

 

Maybe it's just b/c all of Adlard's people look the same. If Rick didn't have his stump, I'd probably have a hard time identifying him. Michionne is easy to identify.

[COI]

Those people are clearly crazy.

 

It's possible that they buy knowing they can sell it on ebay, if the need arises, and I would bet lots of money that those copies will eventually end up on there. That wouldn't make them speculators per se.

 

Really? I doubt they are any crazier than any of us who spend ANY money on comics. I'd venture to say they are no more crazy than the guy that spent $2.1 million dollars for an Action 1.

 

For new collectors and seasoned collectors alike, I often wonder how buying habits would change if the liquidity, or perceived liquidity, of these books was completely removed from the equation.

It is pretty obvious from this premise that you have no faith in Walking Dead holding its value. Frankly it isn't a book I would invest in either. But I don't assume that these sales are purely investment driven. It is a really good comic. Folks like it. Alot. And people want to have a copy of the first issue. By ragging on the folks that are buying it with the argument that it is a lousy investment aren't you simply assuming that they are only interested in the investment potential, and therefore somehow driven by a purpose somehow less worthy? And isn't that, is some small way, hypocritical on your part? Especially in light of the fact that we know you derive a great deal of enjoyment out of comics simply because of what they are, regardless of price. View some of these Walking Dead enthusiasts the same light and maybe you will understand why.

 

Well, my argument is that usually run-ups in prices like this are speculator-fueled. Nothing is absolute, and there are undoubtedly people who really want the book for its own sake who get caught up in the hype.

 

That being said, another issue brought up here is the liquidity issue. I actually think that the vast majority of the high end market, and the explosion we've seen in prices, is almost entirely the product of increased liquidity with the introduction of CGC into the market, which coincided with the popularity of Ebay around 2000-2001. It was a perfect storm which gave anyone the ability to sell their books for full FMV without a reputation, marketing budget, etc... This in turn led to the explosion in prices as buyers, confident in their ability to move the books if necessary, and having CGC set the grading standard, bid books sky high.

 

In this respect, I'm not singling out TWD #1; I think the prices on most high end books reflect the unprecedented access and ability for the average joe collector to buy and sell their books for full FMV. I think if you took this liquidity out of the picture, or at least severely diminished it, prices would plummet. Which begs the question: how much of the prices realized for these books reflect the desire for the book for its own sake, and how much simply reflects "the game"?

[MrBedrock]

The series is great and the book is hot. Especially with the popularity of the show.

 

However, it does kind of seem reminescent of Ultimate Spidey White as far as prices go. I think WD will hold value, but I would expect to see some correction at some point.

 

I have a harder time wrapping my head around the demand for #19 and 27. #19 I get a bit as Michionne is the #2 character in the book (after Rick). I don't get the Governor quite as much. Yeah, he was a cool baddie for them to have to face. But not much more than that. It's been awhile since I've read it, but wasn't he in maybe 2 arcs? That's it. I guess every series needs to have "keys".

 

I would compare Walking Dead #1 with Bone #1. Small print runs, praised by fans, later each got some media attention and the general public took notice.

[USArmyParatrooper]

Keep on yanking.

 

[COI]

I started this thread as a chain-yank

 

Welcome back, COI. Transparent as your motives are, for some reason you always initiate interesting threads. Keep on yanking.

 

Couldn't stop if I tried. I have a problem.

[VintageComics]

The series is great and the book is hot. Especially with the popularity of the show.

 

However, it does kind of seem reminescent of Ultimate Spidey White as far as prices go. I think WD will hold value, but I would expect to see some correction at some point.

 

I have a harder time wrapping my head around the demand for #19 and 27. #19 I get a bit as Michionne is the #2 character in the book (after Rick). I don't get the Governor quite as much. Yeah, he was a cool baddie for them to have to face. But not much more than that. It's been awhile since I've read it, but wasn't he in maybe 2 arcs? That's it. I guess every series needs to have "keys".

 

I would compare Walking Dead #1 with Bone #1. Small print runs, praised by fans, later each got some media attention and the general public took notice.

 

My 10 year old daughter reads Bone voraciously. I bought her a complete softbound to have signed by Jeff Smith at Fan Expo last year and she read it in 3 days from front to back...and she's already read it many times over.

 

Libraries up here can't keep the stuff in stock.

 

 

[goldust40]

That being said, another issue brought up here is the liquidity issue. I actually think that the vast majority of the high end market, and the explosion we've seen in prices, is almost entirely the product of increased liquidity with the introduction of CGC into the market, which coincided with the popularity of Ebay around 2000-2001. It was a perfect storm which gave anyone the ability to sell their books for full FMV without a reputation, marketing budget, etc... This in turn led to the explosion in prices as buyers, confident in their ability to move the books if necessary, and having CGC set the grading standard, bid books sky high.

 

Good point. Even at their peak back in the ' 80s, in-demand books such as Dark Knight 1, TMNT 1 and Cerebus 1 never commanded anywhere near the prices recent books such as WD 1 get. Suddenly it wasn't enough to have the hot collectible in NM as there were gradations of the mint grade, coupled with far easier access for and ability to sell said books.

 

So there was an explosion in prices. Was there, and has there been an explosion in buyers of such collectibles due to that perfect storm? It doesn't seem that way. What CGC did in the end was change buying habits. Veteran collectors often recall the nadir of the medium in the mid-90s in which publishers catered primarily to the speculator - what is odd is that books that completely lost their lustre when the Valiant / Image bubble burst back in 1994/5 are ironically selling for way more now if the grade is high enough.

 

Which even I find baffling, and I spend idiotic money on books.

[brendanb438]

I know nothing about this book. Literally nothing. Except I just saw that a CGC 8.0 sold for $400+, which seems insane to me.

 

Am I ignorant? Is the buyer retarded? Am I retarded?

 

moderns are such a funny beast.

 

you never know what the general collecting public will go ga-ga over...

 

This book is basically this generation's Death of Superman all over again.

 

And just like those individuals that paid a thousand times over guide for a copy

these will mimic them again when they show up at a LCS years later kicking cans because

they can't retire off of this one comic book investment.

 

 

 

This can't possibly be compared to the Death of Superman and that happening all over again. This comic has been out since 2003, and has only started to really skyrocket in value over the last 2 years. There was zero hype around this book when it debuted, where as DoS was all over the news with people thinking hey I am gonna buy 100 copies and retire off this.

 

Also look at print runs, how many of DoS were printed? It is estimated that issue 1 of WD has a print run of roughly 7300 copies, pretty big difference between the two.

 

Yes WD will eventually cool off, but it will never drop down to prices for issue #1 of below $300 in 9.8 ever again.

[fantastic_four]

From my own limited, personal experience, I agree with this. I absolutely loved Captain America, the Iron Man movies and I kind of liked the second hulk movie. I felt absolutely zero desire to go and lay out thousands of dollars on IM, CA or Hulk keys. I'm just not a big fan of the books and if I want to read the stories I'm going to pick up the marvel masterworks or an omnibus.

 

Maybe movies/tv/games whatever have a measurable impact on the value of the books beyond the collectors but to me it kind of reminds me of spammers trying to pump up penny stocks.

 

My theory is that movies/television result in higher prices, but not because they actually bring new collectors into the fold; rather, they cause pre-existing speculators to buy more on the premise that new collectors will enter the fray.

 

Kate Hudson? Really?

 

The reason movies and television shows pump up the books is less due to new readers and more due to re-inspiring existing fans of comics. When the first X-Men movie came out in 2000, it inspired me to get back into collecting; it came out in June 2000 and I just had to have a high grade copy of X-Men #1 later that same year and it spiraled from there for me. Without the resulting boom in superhero films, I may never have paid all the money I've paid for comics over the last decade plus. This is an extremely common pattern amongst collectors.

 

The Walking Dead hasn't "saved" comics--the guy who said it gave the industry a shot in the arm is right, it has, but no, it hasn't saved the print medium. He didn't say it did. The series and the film is just fantastic, so the higher prices of the first few issues in high grade makes complete sense to me mostly because of the extremely limited print run. Without that limited print run, supply would easily exceed demand.

 

Kate Hudson has a cute face and a great personality, but wow, she got fairly unlucky in the body department. Her mom has a much better figure.

[500Club]

I know nothing about this book. Literally nothing. Except I just saw that a CGC 8.0 sold for $400+, which seems insane to me.

 

Am I ignorant? Is the buyer retarded? Am I retarded?

 

moderns are such a funny beast.

 

you never know what the general collecting public will go ga-ga over...

 

This book is basically this generation's Death of Superman all over again.

 

And just like those individuals that paid a thousand times over guide for a copy

these will mimic them again when they show up at a LCS years later kicking cans because

they can't retire off of this one comic book investment.

 

I prefer the analogy of 80s GIJoe to Death of Superman myself.

 

Superman was vary much speculator driven, whereas the GIJoe phenomenon actually arose from people liking the books, the cartoon etc.