X-men #94 CGC 9.4 Prices?

[paperheart]

Do you guys think prices will continue to drop or has the book reached a plateau?

 

Personally, I've seen alot of 9.2 and 9.4s with a disturbing amount of spine ticks lately.

As long as the pressers continue to ruin the value of true high grade books,see this and many other books values dropping.

 

true dat.

[mintcollector]

 

13 9.8's

57 9.6's

136 9.4's

(thumbs u

 

Thanks! Only 13 9.8's out there and a 20k price drop? huh?

 

It seems like the 2nd 9.8 of any big book incurs an immediate, big loss. I can see 13 copies in 9.8 causing a 2/3 value drop. One could project that with 25 copies it's only a 3 or 4K book.

 

This is why buying a 9.8 of ALMOST any book is an extreme risk. Remember when Tomb of Dracula #1 and Swamp Thing #1 were both selling for around $3,000 in 9.8? Now they are $1500 books at best. I am a high grade collector who is extremely happy with my 9.4 Tomb of Dracula #1 that I snagged for $290 in a Comic Link auction. Is a 9.8 really worth more than ten times that amount? I don't think so; and now neither does the current market. This has happened to so many other collecting hobbies as well; not just comics. Coins and a lot of other collectibles all suffer this same fate. Be very careful when you chase the highest graded item in existence. In most cases; more will always turn up.

 

Respectfully,

 

'mint'

 

[scooter99]

 

13 9.8's

57 9.6's

136 9.4's

(thumbs u

 

Thanks! Only 13 9.8's out there and a 20k price drop? huh?

 

It seems like the 2nd 9.8 of any big book incurs an immediate, big loss. I can see 13 copies in 9.8 causing a 2/3 value drop. One could project that with 25 copies it's only a 3 or 4K book.

 

This is why buying a 9.8 of ALMOST any book is an extreme risk. Remember when Tomb of Dracula #1 and Swamp Thing #1 were both selling for around $3,000 in 9.8? Now they are $1500 books at best. I am a high grade collector who is extremely happy with my 9.4 Tomb of Dracula #1 that I snagged for $290 in a Comic Link auction. Is a 9.8 really worth more than ten times that amount? I don't think so; and now neither does the current market. This has happened to so many other collecting hobbies as well; not just comics. Coins and a lot of other collectibles all suffer this same fate. Be very careful when you chase the highest graded item in existence. In most cases; more will always turn up.

 

Respectfully,

 

'mint'

 

I couldn't agree more. I've seen many 9.4's of both X-men 94 and TOD1 that look better than many of the 9.8's. For some reason it seems many of the 9.8's are miswrapped poorly and have PQ that is less than strict white. I'll take a white paged, well registered 9.4 any day of the week and save a pantload of dough. (thumbs u

 

 

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I've been holding out for a nice 9.2 in the $1k range. Having seen dozens of copies in the 9.2-9.6 range in the last few years, it seems you could find copies at the lower end of the range that look nearly as good as the ones at the higher end of the range, for a lot less.

[VintageComics]

Do you guys think prices will continue to drop or has the book reached a plateau?

 

Personally, I've seen alot of 9.2 and 9.4s with a disturbing amount of spine ticks lately.

As long as the pressers continue to ruin the value of true high grade books,see this and many other books values dropping.

 

true dat.

 

I know that pressing is often blamed for the downturn in prices but pressing has been around for many years and has been discussed heavily on this forum for as long as I can remember. In my opinion, the largest downturn in the bronze and late silver market happened some time around 2009 from what I have been able to remember.

 

I remember having a bunch of books at auction towards the end of 2009 that had done reasonably well in the past and I got killed on many of them for that auction. In fact, I remember the boards in general lamenting about the state of the market in late 2009 in many threads. Since then much of the market also started to bounce back (as stated by others in those same threads).

 

I attribute it to several factors, one being the state of the economy. 2009 was a massive downturn for the US economy that left a lot of people either short on money or worried about being short on money. That caused people to sell their books in need of additional income.

 

Second in roughly 2008-2009 there was a large shift to selling stuff through all the new auction houses being set up (Comiclink, Comicconnect, Pedigree - Heritage was the only game in town offering really high quality material through auction until the others caught on). It got to the point where dealers were choosing the auction route rather than sitting on books and waiting to get their prices. Add in the fact that the economy was struggling and you have a large supply (as people needed the money) and you had a perfect storm for auction houses. Pushing a lot of products through auctions forced buyers to choose between venues and without a second bidder to drive prices up prices began to decline. Once people realized that auction wasn't the route for everyone to take, people started being more selective to which books went to auction (I know I was).

 

There were also a few very big collectors that dropped out of the market during that time period. I know that for a fact as I spoke to them. Guys setting records by beating each other up at auction and guys putting together multiple runs of books decided to pull back. Having a few big guns drop out of the market (or just shift direction in collecting interests) did cause a shift in prices as they stopped chasing books and also started selling books.

 

So yes, while pressing does increase supply there were a lot of other factors at work than just pressed books coming to market.

 

As far as X-men #94 goes, I've done well with that book by holding for the right buyer. I got $3500 for a 9.6 copy less than a year ago (I think it's recorded on GPA).

 

 

[drbanner]

In my opinion, the largest downturn in the bronze and late silver market happened some time around 2009 from what I have been able to remember.

 

In January of 2009, the pop #'s for X-men 94 were:

 

2 9.8's

34 9.6's

102 9.4's

 

In December of 2009:

 

4 9.8's

45 9.6's

119 9.4's

 

Today:

 

13 9.8's

57 9.6's

136 9.4's

 

%-wise, there was a huge uptick in 9.8's and 9.6's, but not nearly as high an increas in 9.4's. Sort of obvious to me that many of those 9.4's are now 9.6's or 9.8's, likewise with the 9.6's. Rather amazing that in it's 1st 9 years, CGC only certified 2 9.8's, but in the last 3 years another 11 have popped up? Supply has driven the price down, but it's still a great book if you ask me! (thumbs u

 

[mintcollector]

Do you guys think prices will continue to drop or has the book reached a plateau?

 

Personally, I've seen alot of 9.2 and 9.4s with a disturbing amount of spine ticks lately.

As long as the pressers continue to ruin the value of true high grade books,see this and many other books values dropping.

 

true dat.

 

I know that pressing is often blamed for the downturn in prices but pressing has been around for many years and has been discussed heavily on this forum for as long as I can remember. In my opinion, the largest downturn in the bronze and late silver market happened some time around 2009 from what I have been able to remember.

 

I remember having a bunch of books at auction towards the end of 2009 that had done reasonably well in the past and I got killed on many of them for that auction. In fact, I remember the boards in general lamenting about the state of the market in late 2009 in many threads. Since then much of the market also started to bounce back (as stated by others in those same threads).

 

I attribute it to several factors, one being the state of the economy. 2009 was a massive downturn for the US economy that left a lot of people either short on money or worried about being short on money. That caused people to sell their books in need of additional income.

 

Second in roughly 2008-2009 there was a large shift to selling stuff through all the new auction houses being set up (Comiclink, Comicconnect, Pedigree - Heritage was the only game in town offering really high quality material through auction until the others caught on). It got to the point where dealers were choosing the auction route rather than sitting on books and waiting to get their prices. Add in the fact that the economy was struggling and you have a large supply (as people needed the money) and you had a perfect storm for auction houses. Pushing a lot of products through auctions forced buyers to choose between venues and without a second bidder to drive prices up prices began to decline. Once people realized that auction wasn't the route for everyone to take, people started being more selective to which books went to auction (I know I was).

 

There were also a few very big collectors that dropped out of the market during that time period. I know that for a fact as I spoke to them. Guys setting records by beating each other up at auction and guys putting together multiple runs of books decided to pull back. Having a few big guns drop out of the market (or just shift direction in collecting interests) did cause a shift in prices as they stopped chasing books and also started selling books.

 

So yes, while pressing does increase supply there were a lot of other factors at work than just pressed books coming to market.

 

As far as X-men #94 goes, I've done well with that book by holding for the right buyer. I got $3500 for a 9.6 copy less than a year ago (I think it's recorded on GPA).

 

 

This is a great post and one that belongs in several other threads; not just this one. I agree fully. I got some great deals in 2009 and 2010. I remember getting my copy of X-Men Annual #1 CGC 9.4 for $100 on eBay; as well as other.

 

Kind Regards,

 

'mint'

[seanfingh]

 

I had a Marvel Feature 12 9.8 White, with a previous sale of over $1000, go for like $175 on C-Link in late 2009.

[Logan510]

You never lose value on a comic if you intend to keep it forever

[jbud73]

In my opinion, the largest downturn in the bronze and late silver market happened some time around 2009 from what I have been able to remember.

 

In January of 2009, the pop #'s for X-men 94 were:

 

2 9.8's

34 9.6's

102 9.4's

 

In December of 2009:

 

4 9.8's

45 9.6's

119 9.4's

 

Today:

 

13 9.8's

57 9.6's

136 9.4's

 

%-wise, there was a huge uptick in 9.8's and 9.6's, but not nearly as high an increas in 9.4's. Sort of obvious to me that many of those 9.4's are now 9.6's or 9.8's, likewise with the 9.6's. Rather amazing that in it's 1st 9 years, CGC only certified 2 9.8's, but in the last 3 years another 11 have popped up? Supply has driven the price down, but it's still a great book if you ask me! (thumbs u

 

Nice post Mike, it is not usually a good idea to use specifics of any one, or a few sales, to generalize and this is especially true when discussing market shifts. However, I think Mike's point regarding the statistics over the past 10 years is a very poignant one. While pressing has been around for a while and this forum has been discussing it since say '05- '06. The PROLIFERATION of pressing to the degree that it occurs now is probably only a 3 year phenomenon.

 

I would also premise that in the SA and BA pressing is most prevalent in the upper grade ranges - at least for a book like X-Men 94 not only are the 9.6 and 9.8 numbers strong indicators that something is going on at the upper end. The 9.4 indicators being disproportionate would lend weight to the improvement argument.

 

As a collector I think what I would take from this is, tougher book at the upper range, but not as tough as everyone thought 3-4 years ago and likely to get even more attainable if the numbers continue to swell. If I was thinking of buying a 9.6 copy I might actually wait 12-18 months to see if the up tick in copies in the census kept going and the corresponding prices came down.

 

[oakman29]

In my opinion, the largest downturn in the bronze and late silver market happened some time around 2009 from what I have been able to remember.

 

In January of 2009, the pop #'s for X-men 94 were:

 

2 9.8's

34 9.6's

102 9.4's

 

In December of 2009:

 

4 9.8's

45 9.6's

119 9.4's

 

Today:

 

13 9.8's

57 9.6's

136 9.4's

 

%-wise, there was a huge uptick in 9.8's and 9.6's, but not nearly as high an increas in 9.4's. Sort of obvious to me that many of those 9.4's are now 9.6's or 9.8's, likewise with the 9.6's. Rather amazing that in it's 1st 9 years, CGC only certified 2 9.8's, but in the last 3 years another 11 have popped up? Supply has driven the price down, but it's still a great book if you ask me! (thumbs u

 

Nice post Mike, it is not usually a good idea to use specifics of any one, or a few sales, to generalize and this is especially true when discussing market shifts. However, I think Mike's point regarding the statistics over the past 10 years is a very poignant one. While pressing has been around for a while and this forum has been discussing it since say '05- '06. The PROLIFERATION of pressing to the degree that it occurs now is probably only a 3 year phenomenon.

 

I would also premise that in the SA and BA pressing is most prevalent in the upper grade ranges - at least for a book like X-Men 94 not only are the 9.6 and 9.8 numbers strong indicators that something is going on at the upper end. The 9.4 indicators being disproportionate would lend weight to the improvement argument.

 

As a collector I think what I would take from this is, tougher book at the upper range, but not as tough as everyone thought 3-4 years ago and likely to get even more attainable if the numbers continue to swell. If I was thinking of buying a 9.6 copy I might actually wait 12-18 months to see if the up tick in copies in the census kept going and the corresponding prices came down.

 

Know what I'm taking from this? That the greed of many who press books have ruined the value of this book and many like it.

[VintageComics]

I've always wondered why people who press books are called greedy.

 

Greed is defined as having the desire for something that they don't need.

 

It's no more greedy than wanting to possess a high grade copy of X-men #94.

 

No different than shining shoes rather than selling someone new ones, pushing out a dent in a fender rather than replacing it or straightening your hair to look "better" than you normally look because you don't like wavy hair etc.

 

Ultimately, it's just a service marketed for a certain segment of the market. It's not for everyone but then nothing is.

[VintageComics]

Nice post Mike, it is not usually a good idea to use specifics of any one, or a few sales, to generalize and this is especially true when discussing market shifts. However, I think Mike's point regarding the statistics over the past 10 years is a very poignant one. While pressing has been around for a while and this forum has been discussing it since say '05- '06. The PROLIFERATION of pressing to the degree that it occurs now is probably only a 3 year phenomenon.

 

I would also premise that in the SA and BA pressing is most prevalent in the upper grade ranges - at least for a book like X-Men 94 not only are the 9.6 and 9.8 numbers strong indicators that something is going on at the upper end. The 9.4 indicators being disproportionate would lend weight to the improvement argument.

 

As a collector I think what I would take from this is, tougher book at the upper range, but not as tough as everyone thought 3-4 years ago and likely to get even more attainable if the numbers continue to swell. If I was thinking of buying a 9.6 copy I might actually wait 12-18 months to see if the up tick in copies in the census kept going and the corresponding prices came down.

 

 

Is it the proliferation of pressing or is it just that there are many more new books coming to market?

 

We've had a slew of new Silver and Bronze Age pedigrees come to market in the past 2-3 years (Savannah, Twin Cities, Rocky Mountain, Sucha) not to mention all the collectors that are reaching a ripe age selling off their books?

 

I've bought more books in the past 4 months than I did all last year. The volume of books coming to market is terrific. Thankfully, people are buying it all too, which is a good thing.

 

 

[roulette44]

Do you guys think prices will continue to drop or has the book reached a plateau?

 

Personally, I've seen alot of 9.2 and 9.4s with a disturbing amount of spine ticks lately.

As long as the pressers continue to ruin the value of true high grade books,see this and many other books values dropping.

 

true dat.

 

I know that pressing is often blamed for the downturn in prices but pressing has been around for many years and has been discussed heavily on this forum for as long as I can remember. In my opinion, the largest downturn in the bronze and late silver market happened some time around 2009 from what I have been able to remember.

 

I remember having a bunch of books at auction towards the end of 2009 that had done reasonably well in the past and I got killed on many of them for that auction. In fact, I remember the boards in general lamenting about the state of the market in late 2009 in many threads. Since then much of the market also started to bounce back (as stated by others in those same threads).

 

I attribute it to several factors, one being the state of the economy. 2009 was a massive downturn for the US economy that left a lot of people either short on money or worried about being short on money. That caused people to sell their books in need of additional income.

 

Second in roughly 2008-2009 there was a large shift to selling stuff through all the new auction houses being set up (Comiclink, Comicconnect, Pedigree - Heritage was the only game in town offering really high quality material through auction until the others caught on). It got to the point where dealers were choosing the auction route rather than sitting on books and waiting to get their prices. Add in the fact that the economy was struggling and you have a large supply (as people needed the money) and you had a perfect storm for auction houses. Pushing a lot of products through auctions forced buyers to choose between venues and without a second bidder to drive prices up prices began to decline. Once people realized that auction wasn't the route for everyone to take, people started being more selective to which books went to auction (I know I was).

 

There were also a few very big collectors that dropped out of the market during that time period. I know that for a fact as I spoke to them. Guys setting records by beating each other up at auction and guys putting together multiple runs of books decided to pull back. Having a few big guns drop out of the market (or just shift direction in collecting interests) did cause a shift in prices as they stopped chasing books and also started selling books.

 

So yes, while pressing does increase supply there were a lot of other factors at work than just pressed books coming to market.

 

As far as X-men #94 goes, I've done well with that book by holding for the right buyer. I got $3500 for a 9.6 copy less than a year ago (I think it's recorded on GPA).

 

 

This is a great post and one that belongs in several other threads; not just this one. I agree fully. I got some great deals in 2009 and 2010. I remember getting my copy of X-Men Annual #1 CGC 9.4 for $100 on eBay; as well as other.

 

Kind Regards,

 

'mint'

 

Completely agree. Roy is da man

[delekkerste]

I've always wondered why people who press books are called greedy.

 

Greed is defined as having the desire for something that they don't need.

 

Well, that's one very bad definition of it. I prefer this one: An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth

 

I really don't think that one's willingness to tamper with otherwise unmanipulated books for personal material gain, at the expense of destroying evidence of a book's true history and devaluing the mystique of books that actually have managed to survive the ravages of time on their own, can be called anything else.

[oakman29]

I've always wondered why people who press books are called greedy.

 

Greed is defined as having the desire for something that they don't need.

 

Well, that's one very bad definition of it. I prefer this one: An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth

 

I really don't think that one's willingness to tamper with otherwise unmanipulated books for personal material gain, at the expense of destroying evidence of a book's true history and devaluing the mystique of books that actually have managed to survive the ravages of time on their own, can be called anything else.

Amen!

[VintageComics]

I've always wondered why people who press books are called greedy.

 

Greed is defined as having the desire for something that they don't need.

 

Well, that's one very bad definition of it. I prefer this one: An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth

 

I really don't think that one's willingness to tamper with otherwise unmanipulated books for personal material gain, at the expense of destroying evidence of a book's true history and devaluing the mystique of books that actually have managed to survive the ravages of time on their own, can be called anything else.

 

You're making it sound like people are creating brand new products out of tarnished, beat up old ones. Like they are buying a beat up Chevy that was used as a bird's nest behind the family barn without any body panels or an engine, restoring it to brand new condition and then selling it as a new car.

 

In fact, the process is minimal, it's not very invasive and the same type of service is preformed all over the world in many other different types of industries with much less animosity and much greater acceptance. It's like having a mint Chevy where the son dented the fender by leaning on it and then a dent removal guy is hired to straighten it out again. From my experience, I don't think any automotive enthusiasts would consider a car collector greedy for pressing out a dented fender.

 

Many comic collectors in the same way have accepted or are not bothered by pressing.

 

As with most discussions where greed is discussed, it's large amounts of money that people are arguing about and not the process itself. I think the outrage is more with the money involved. If a pressed book in a higher grade fetched only a small margin more than an unpressed slightly lower grade book I don't think nearly as many people would care all that much. I believe it's because the dollar difference can be so great that I believe people use the word greed.

 

Hiding the history of a book is altogether a different thing and has nothing to do with pressing.

 

 

[oakman29]

How can you compare repairing a damaged body panel of a car,to manipulating a grade of a comic book for financial gain.

[VintageComics]

How can you compare repairing a damaged body panel of a car,to manipulating a grade of a comic book for financial gain.

 

Your choice of the words "manipulating a grade" shows that you are mixing your points.

 

The analogy is a perfect comparison because they are identical procedures...both are done for the same reason.

 

We're just talking about pressing the dent out of a book or removing the fender dent.

 

In both cases the grade is not what people are upset about, it's the procedure, right?

 

Or is it the grade change that people are upset about?

 

Because grade changes can happen without pressing.

Grades can also stay the same on pressed books.

 

The pressing and the change of grade are two different things.

 

 

 

[oakman29]

Well I understand your analogy,but I kind of like my dented jalopy.Just like my comic books,and leave all the "restoration" that isn't really restoration to the people chasing the 9.8s.