Interesting discussion about exclusive deals

[mschmidt]

Ok another process question:

 

Artists have signing fees and they also have expense fees? I thought someone posted that "exclusive fees and such" were the product of a mail away or something cause the money was used for having a special caw for just that event and cause it wasnt a con that CGC was attending with its staff. But you lose me when it is a con attend by cgc staff and you can use a caw to get a signature cause you need to use the exclusive caw for a particular creator cuase the setup person for the con or whoever has guarentted an amount of submissions to justify the exclusive assigned caw. So arent you forcing people to use that caw in order to justify the guarntee numbers?

 

I will continue to use the cgc ss system and look for people like Rich who are taking submissions for my books, because quite frankly I cant figure out when I can use or get cgc ss books and CAWs at cons or need to use special ones etc...

 

Thanks to all who offer assistance with books and the cgc ss program cause for the regular collector I cant make heads or tails of it.

 

You're making it much more complex than it needs to be.

 

Scenario 1:

- Facilitator X brings Guest X to show and pays for Guest X's travel, hotel, per diem, an appearance fee, etc. Nobody has any issue with Facilitator X charging a fee on top of Guest X's regular signing fee, to cover all the expenses incurred by Facilitator X.

 

Scenario 2:

- Show brings Guest X to show and pays for Guest X's travel, hotel, per diem, an appearance fee, etc. Facilitator X still charges an extra fee on top of Guest X's regular signing fee because Facilitator X has a non-exclusive exclusivity agreement with Guest X. That is wrong.

[somewhereintexas]

What you guys don't appreciate is that at Stan's public signings DWC has people dedicated to those signings because Stan's office requires that they be there. And while those people are at Stan's signings, they are not free to get in lines for other creators, get a hot dog, go to the bathroom, or do anything else. So whether it's Chandler and Sharon, in which case there's an opportunity cost because they can't be doing anything else, or one of their employees, in which case there's a direct out of pocket cost, it doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me for a fee to be added on (which BTW can be avoided if you want to volunteer some of your time to help with the signing, such that if you dedicate your time to one of Stan's signings like DWC is doing, then the only add on is the fee to Stan's office, which they have to pay as well) if you just want to stand in line for a few minutes, get your books signed, and then move on to do other things.

[Pirate]

[somewhereintexas]

Haters are gonna hate . . .

[PeasOfCrap]

What you guys don't appreciate is that at Stan's public signings DWC has people dedicated to those signings because Stan's office requires that they be there. And while those people are at Stan's signings, they are not free to get in lines for other creators, get a hot dog, go to the bathroom, or do anything else. So whether it's Chandler and Sharon, in which case there's an opportunity cost because they can't be doing anything else, or one of their employees, in which case there's a direct out of pocket cost, it doesn't seem all that unreasonable to me for a fee to be added on (which BTW can be avoided if you want to volunteer some of your time to help with the signing, such that if you dedicate your time to one of Stan's signings like DWC is doing, then the only add on is the fee to Stan's office, which they have to pay as well) if you just want to stand in line for a few minutes, get your books signed, and then move on to do other things.

 

I agree with you people can charge what they want to cover costs. Good point,

 

Charge what you want but being forced to use one entity for Stan Lee SS is not right and what most people are upset about.

 

Why do you think monopolies are illegal? Because its not fair to the consumer.

[Pirate]

Haters are gonna hate . . .

 

and kool aid drinkers are gonna drink

[Darrell F]

I love some Kool Aid as long as it is Tropical Punch. All other flavors can burn in hell.

[Rich_Henn]

My favorite kool aid is Grape Numpty.

[PeasOfCrap]

Everyone elbows up and drink em down. I think those other communists, The Smurfs, enjoyed Smurfberry Punch.

 

 

 

[chrisco37]

All that fighting and bad blood over frikkin' Romita JR. Not even the old man, but JR.

 

The Sig Forums make CG look like pikers.

 

 

[HuBu]

 

You're making it much more complex than it needs to be.

 

Scenario 1:

- Facilitator X brings Guest X to show and pays for Guest X's travel, hotel, per diem, an appearance fee, etc. Nobody has any issue with Facilitator X charging a fee on top of Guest X's regular signing fee, to cover all the expenses incurred by Facilitator X.

 

Scenario 2:

- Show brings Guest X to show and pays for Guest X's travel, hotel, per diem, an appearance fee, etc. Facilitator X still charges an extra fee on top of Guest X's regular signing fee because Facilitator X has a non-exclusive exclusivity agreement with Guest X. That is wrong.

 

My head just exploded.

 

Scenerio 1 - Facilitators are free to charge whatever they want for whatever they want - ultimately vote with your dollars.

 

Scenario 2 - Speak with Show/Guest X regarding the actions of Facilitator X while probably prevent Facilitator X from being invited again.

[.Troy]

All that fighting and bad blood over frikkin' Romita JR. Not even the old man, but JR.

 

The Sig Forums make CG look like pikers.

 

 

[gyro-1]

Because Stan is frickin awesome.

+ one million

[Joel Elad]

I agree with you people can charge what they want to cover costs. Good point,

 

Charge what you want but being forced to use one entity for Stan Lee SS is not right and what most people are upset about.

 

Why do you think monopolies are illegal? Because its not fair to the consumer.

 

Am I the only one who actually feels insulted for NYComics, Peter Dixon, and someone else on the East Coast, who does signings with Stan Lee during the year? DWC is not your only answer.

 

When Stan comes to a convention, DWC is involved and whether all the costs are public knowledge to attendees or not, the deals are made for a reason.

 

Go read my post in Comic Events. It says it all. I'll probably get banned for it, and I tell ya, I couldn't be happier...

 

[Transplant]

First off, I'm posting here to try to keep that other thread dedicated to the charity signing it was created for. Second, at this point, arguing about the non-exclusive exclusive that DWC has for Stan at cons is futile. It's like religion, politics or abortion. People aren't going to change their minds. I don't mean to give the impression that I have any problem with a private signing set up by whatever facilitator. It's theirs and I guess they get whatever special rules approved by CGC. Fine.

 

But we'll just have to agree to disagree about DWC and Stan at the cons. All I can base my opinion on is what I hear from others in the SS program and what I observe/read with my own eyes/ears.

[PeasOfCrap]

I agree with you people can charge what they want to cover costs. Good point,

 

Charge what you want but being forced to use one entity for Stan Lee SS is not right and what most people are upset about.

 

Why do you think monopolies are illegal? Because its not fair to the consumer.

 

Am I the only one who actually feels insulted for NYComics, Peter Dixon, and someone else on the East Coast, who does signings with Stan Lee during the year? DWC is not your only answer.

 

When Stan comes to a convention, DWC is involved and whether all the costs are public knowledge to attendees or not, the deals are made for a reason.

 

Go read my post in Comic Events. It says it all. I'll probably get banned for it, and I tell ya, I couldn't be happier...

 

Joel, none of the other guys who do Stan SS should be insulted by my post. My post was in repsonse to an experience I had just this past weekend.

 

In Pittsburg, in order for me to get my Stan Lee SS books processed on a non DWC account, I had to pay additional fees. This is where as a customer I feel like (well I am) being forced to pay additional fees for no reason behind it.

 

I read you other post in JRJR and completely agree. Business is business and operational costs and such are a part of the process. We do not know the whole story.

 

I am not complaining about DWC here. What I do not understand here is why CGC allows certain vendors to be able to do this with a creator. You said in Point Three of the JRJR thread challenge CGC. So what is the deal guys?

 

Joel, you said its just comics. True but in the end, it could just be my personal financial situation, I feel like I am being nickel and dimed in each step of getting books slabbed. What next, start charging for graders notes?

 

[comix4fun]

I agree with you people can charge what they want to cover costs. Good point,

 

Charge what you want but being forced to use one entity for Stan Lee SS is not right and what most people are upset about.

 

Why do you think monopolies are illegal? Because its not fair to the consumer.

 

Am I the only one who actually feels insulted for NYComics, Peter Dixon, and someone else on the East Coast, who does signings with Stan Lee during the year? DWC is not your only answer.

 

 

You should feel insulted for NYComics, Peter Dixon, and the mysterious "someone else" on the East Coast, who do those signings with Stan during the year. For all the public appearances Stan makes they aren't offered the same sweet opportunity to "wet their beak" on every sig brought in by another facilitator in the same way. That's the essence of the issue people have.

 

Joel, you are a savvy guy. You've been around. You've done almost everything that can be done in this program. I know you know that there are varying levels of "exclusive" all of which are banned under CGC rules. Again not private signings, public venues where Stan would be signing anyway.

 

If Stan is making a public appearance and a public signing at a convention that should be open to any and all facilitators and authorized witnesses without bar, impediment, penalty or toll which inures to the benefit of ONE facilitator over an above all others.

 

Why should one facilitator be allowed to place an impediment to commerce, giving themselves a disproportionate benefit over and above all others, between the person making a public signing appearance and other equally authorized facilitators? They've paid the talent's fee for the signature. They have an account with CGC. They have been authorized to facilitate at the public event.

 

Is it the "expenses" the facilitator seeking the additional toll has incurred to be at the show? If so how does that facilitator differ from any other who has travel, hotel, food, supplies, etc. expenses for the same event?

 

Again, I am not talking about private signings, or situations where the facilitator is also the convention promoter actually paying the bills for the convention hall, unions, utilities, guest appearances, etc.

 

It doesn't have to be a global monopoly or every signature Stan gives to be an improper monopoly. A single public appearance, where an authorized facilitator is in compliance with CGC guidelines, but is barred from obtaining a signature and certification that he has paid for, in full, without being forced to pay an additional toll is the raw essence of an exclusive inuring to the benefit of one above all others.

 

I've tried to lay this out as logically and easily as possible. I hope your answer isn't for me to "go eff myself" as well. As you've stated we've all got our opinions. I've just tried to show you the logic behind people that may have a problem with this policy.

 

 

[Comic Book Guy]

I am not an "official facilitator" but from my perspective when I see DWC at a Stan Lee signing I

 

When I see "Stan's handlers" at the same signing I then inevitably it turns to

 

I like having someone there "on the inside" who knows how to handle books and understands the CGC SS program like DWC.

 

Stan's guys on the other hand could care less and would prefer to take your raw books from you, throw them on the table and then toss them back at ya(and they dont care if your a witness for cgc or subbing books for clients). This is literally what they do and if it wasn't for DWC being right there and stepping in (sometimes subtly and sometimes not so subtly) to help facilitate the proper treatment of us and our books then who knows what would happen.

 

Also for those that aren't actually facilitating the event, a Stan Lee signing at a big Con without someone like DWC requires a lot more from those getting a signature for CGC SS. You have to time everything right, figure out how to be in line and go get a witness from the CGC booth at the same time, then return back to the CGC booth after. It can get really stressful trying to make sure it all goes down right and you get your books done properly. Imagine waiting in line for Stan and then when it comes time for a witness, "oh no", there isn't one available at the CGC booth. And if you do get it done then you still have to pay an "extra fee" for them coming over to witness the book anyway.

 

With DWC at the signing it is much more stress free because you know someone will be near the signing table witnessing everything and the paperwork can usually be done ahead of time or at the signing location after, there is no going back to CGC because DWC takes care of all of it for you. So all things considered I am happy someone like DWC is there and happy to pay a little extra for all that comes with it.

[mschmidt]

Also for those that aren't actually facilitating the event, a Stan Lee signing at a big Con without someone like DWC requires a lot more from those getting a signature for CGC SS. You have to time everything right, figure out how to be in line and go get a witness from the CGC booth at the same time, then return back to the CGC booth after. It can get really stressful trying to make sure it all goes down right and you get your books done properly. Imagine waiting in line for Stan and then when it comes time for a witness, "oh no", there isn't one available at the CGC booth. And if you do get it done then you still have to pay an "extra fee" for them coming over to witness the book anyway.

 

With DWC at the signing it is much more stress free because you know someone will be near the signing table witnessing everything and the paperwork can usually be done ahead of time or at the signing location after, there is no going back to CGC because DWC takes care of all of it for you. So all things considered I am happy someone like DWC is there and happy to pay a little extra for all that comes with it.

 

You're kinda missing the point, though.

 

It's great that we have facilitators who are willing to handle SS books for people who don't want to handle them themselves - either because they don't know how the process works, aren't at the show, or simply cannot be bothered. And there's no question that a facilitator should be well within their rights to charge a fee for this service.

 

What irks me, however, is having to pay a facilitator/middle-man for doing nothing. If I prep my own books, go to the CGC booth & grab a witness, go the creator's booth for a public signing, pay the creator his or her signing fee, and then take the books back to the CGC booth myself, do you think it's reasonable for a 3rd party to step in & ask me to chip in for their personal expenses?

[Menace]

What if the artist requests or demands that one facilitator get a 'cut' or handle ALL of the Signature Series stuff? At a convention public or private signing?

 

Disclaimer: This question is only intended to inform one person myself about something I have wondered. Please take this question out of context of everything and everyone else in the previous two threads. I do not wish to make any comment on the previous situation other than to add is that the boards have had a great influx of new people who now get to see all this arguing as one of their first experiences here.