Interesting discussion about exclusive deals

[Darrell F]

Posted this in the original thread... felt I should copy it over here as well...

 

And Transplant like I said before, if you would care to step up and set up your own signing opportunities with any of these creators I am NOT stopping you. Thank you for your opinion and input.

 

Been reading this thread from the beginning, and then I come across this post from DWC.

 

I am not a big poster here on the boards, I use it mainly as a information resource, but after seeing this post by DWC, I had to say something.

 

DWC, how can you possibly say this with a clear conscience?

 

If you set the wayback machine to last summer, just prior to the Baltimore Comic Con (where you had another "exclusive" DWC Stan Lee signing) myself, and several other local comic fans/collectors/lovers had taken the opportunity to take advantage of a local, Baltimore area comic store's previously arranged private signing with Stan the night before the Con. This private event had been arranged with Stan's people long before the show and had no conflict with your (DWC) signing at the Con on Saturday and Sunday.

 

Imagine how shocked I was to learn, just prior to "our" private signing opportunity with Stan, that you had found out about "our" private signing with Stan, and how you called the owner of the local shop (you called him personally I might add) who had arranged this, through proper channels with Stan's people, as well as CGC, and informed him that you were in charge of all Stan's signing events, and that "our"signing would not be permitted to happen.

 

Myself, and most of the other participants in this signing, were trying to support a local business, and were hoping that we might be able to see Stan himself at the signing, as well as seeing our books signed by the man himself. But, because this was a private signing, that you had no control of (or financial interest in) you just couldn't let it happen.

 

The local owner had to jump through every hoop imaginable to get our signing back on track after you selfishly tried to get our signing cancelled, just so your "exclusive public" signing at the Con would be the ONLY opportunity for local Baltimore comic fans to get their books done at.

 

How dare you try to come across as the good guy who is being persecuted when you tried to step on a small, local business, who had already arranged their event through the proper channels, just because you weren't getting your "exclusive".

 

Stop hiding behind your bs, because there are a lot of us who just aren't buying it anymore.

 

And for the record, I am a small collector who would love to get a Todd McFarlane sig on several of my books, but if the only way I can do it is to go through you in ANY way, I will just never bother, because I will never put a dime of my money in your pocket...

 

And to be clear, this is just in response to what you (DWC) said yourself... not meaning to on JRJR's Charity work....

 

 

-carry on-

[Transplant]

Why don't you guys and girls buck the trend? Carry your derail elsewhere. The grown ups are talking. One of the last few even semi serious topics to be discussed here and you guys are cluttering it up with a not even funny derail.

[Transplant]

Posted this in the original thread... felt I should copy it over here as well...

 

And Transplant like I said before, if you would care to step up and set up your own signing opportunities with any of these creators I am NOT stopping you. Thank you for your opinion and input.

 

Been reading this thread from the beginning, and then I come across this post from DWC.

 

I am not a big poster here on the boards, I use it mainly as a information resource, but after seeing this post by DWC, I had to say something.

 

DWC, how can you possibly say this with a clear conscience?

 

If you set the wayback machine to last summer, just prior to the Baltimore Comic Con (where you had another "exclusive" DWC Stan Lee signing) myself, and several other local comic fans/collectors/lovers had taken the opportunity to take advantage of a local, Baltimore area comic store's previously arranged private signing with Stan the night before the Con. This private event had been arranged with Stan's people long before the show and had no conflict with your (DWC) signing at the Con on Saturday and Sunday.

 

Imagine how shocked I was to learn, just prior to "our" private signing opportunity with Stan, that you had found out about "our" private signing with Stan, and how you called the owner of the local shop (you called him personally I might add) who had arranged this, through proper channels with Stan's people, as well as CGC, and informed him that you were in charge of all Stan's signing events, and that "our"signing would not be permitted to happen.

 

Myself, and most of the other participants in this signing, were trying to support a local business, and were hoping that we might be able to see Stan himself at the signing, as well as seeing our books signed by the man himself. But, because this was a private signing, that you had no control of (or financial interest in) you just couldn't let it happen.

 

The local owner had to jump through every hoop imaginable to get our signing back on track after you selfishly tried to get our signing cancelled, just so your "exclusive public" signing at the Con would be the ONLY opportunity for local Baltimore comic fans to get their books done at.

 

How dare you try to come across as the good guy who is being persecuted when you tried to step on a small, local business, who had already arranged their event through the proper channels, just because you weren't getting your "exclusive".

 

Stop hiding behind your bs, because there are a lot of us who just aren't buying it anymore.

 

And for the record, I am a small collector who would love to get a Todd McFarlane sig on several of my books, but if the only way I can do it is to go through you in ANY way, I will just never bother, because I will never put a dime of my money in your pocket...

 

And to be clear, this is just in response to what you (DWC) said yourself... not meaning to on JRJR's Charity work....

 

 

-carry on-

Got real in here just now.

[A-DONIS]

Someone just laid on the heavy!

[lscomics]

Posted this in the original thread... felt I should copy it over here as well...

 

And Transplant like I said before, if you would care to step up and set up your own signing opportunities with any of these creators I am NOT stopping you. Thank you for your opinion and input.

 

Been reading this thread from the beginning, and then I come across this post from DWC.

 

I am not a big poster here on the boards, I use it mainly as a information resource, but after seeing this post by DWC, I had to say something.

 

DWC, how can you possibly say this with a clear conscience?

 

If you set the wayback machine to last summer, just prior to the Baltimore Comic Con (where you had another "exclusive" DWC Stan Lee signing) myself, and several other local comic fans/collectors/lovers had taken the opportunity to take advantage of a local, Baltimore area comic store's previously arranged private signing with Stan the night before the Con. This private event had been arranged with Stan's people long before the show and had no conflict with your (DWC) signing at the Con on Saturday and Sunday.

 

Imagine how shocked I was to learn, just prior to "our" private signing opportunity with Stan, that you had found out about "our" private signing with Stan, and how you called the owner of the local shop (you called him personally I might add) who had arranged this, through proper channels with Stan's people, as well as CGC, and informed him that you were in charge of all Stan's signing events, and that "our"signing would not be permitted to happen.

 

Myself, and most of the other participants in this signing, were trying to support a local business, and were hoping that we might be able to see Stan himself at the signing, as well as seeing our books signed by the man himself. But, because this was a private signing, that you had no control of (or financial interest in) you just couldn't let it happen.

 

The local owner had to jump through every hoop imaginable to get our signing back on track after you selfishly tried to get our signing cancelled, just so your "exclusive public" signing at the Con would be the ONLY opportunity for local Baltimore comic fans to get their books done at.

 

How dare you try to come across as the good guy who is being persecuted when you tried to step on a small, local business, who had already arranged their event through the proper channels, just because you weren't getting your "exclusive".

 

Stop hiding behind your bs, because there are a lot of us who just aren't buying it anymore.

 

And for the record, I am a small collector who would love to get a Todd McFarlane sig on several of my books, but if the only way I can do it is to go through you in ANY way, I will just never bother, because I will never put a dime of my money in your pocket...

 

And to be clear, this is just in response to what you (DWC) said yourself... not meaning to on JRJR's Charity work....

 

 

-carry on-

My last post in this thread and on this topic.

 

If there's a problem with the way these signings are being handled or the fees that are being charged - TAKE YOUR EVIDENCE/COMPLAINTS/CONCERNS ETC. TO CGC. There's nothing anyone else can do about it.

[GACollectibles]

Why don't you guys and girls buck the trend? Carry your derail elsewhere. The grown ups are talking. One of the last few even semi serious topics to be discussed here and you guys are cluttering it up with a not even funny derail.

 

Lighten up, Francis.

[USArmyParatrooper]

Posted this in the original thread... felt I should copy it over here as well...

 

And Transplant like I said before, if you would care to step up and set up your own signing opportunities with any of these creators I am NOT stopping you. Thank you for your opinion and input.

 

Been reading this thread from the beginning, and then I come across this post from DWC.

 

I am not a big poster here on the boards, I use it mainly as a information resource, but after seeing this post by DWC, I had to say something.

 

DWC, how can you possibly say this with a clear conscience?

 

If you set the wayback machine to last summer, just prior to the Baltimore Comic Con (where you had another "exclusive" DWC Stan Lee signing) myself, and several other local comic fans/collectors/lovers had taken the opportunity to take advantage of a local, Baltimore area comic store's previously arranged private signing with Stan the night before the Con. This private event had been arranged with Stan's people long before the show and had no conflict with your (DWC) signing at the Con on Saturday and Sunday.

 

Imagine how shocked I was to learn, just prior to "our" private signing opportunity with Stan, that you had found out about "our" private signing with Stan, and how you called the owner of the local shop (you called him personally I might add) who had arranged this, through proper channels with Stan's people, as well as CGC, and informed him that you were in charge of all Stan's signing events, and that "our"signing would not be permitted to happen.

 

Myself, and most of the other participants in this signing, were trying to support a local business, and were hoping that we might be able to see Stan himself at the signing, as well as seeing our books signed by the man himself. But, because this was a private signing, that you had no control of (or financial interest in) you just couldn't let it happen.

 

The local owner had to jump through every hoop imaginable to get our signing back on track after you selfishly tried to get our signing cancelled, just so your "exclusive public" signing at the Con would be the ONLY opportunity for local Baltimore comic fans to get their books done at.

 

How dare you try to come across as the good guy who is being persecuted when you tried to step on a small, local business, who had already arranged their event through the proper channels, just because you weren't getting your "exclusive".

 

Stop hiding behind your bs, because there are a lot of us who just aren't buying it anymore.

 

And for the record, I am a small collector who would love to get a Todd McFarlane sig on several of my books, but if the only way I can do it is to go through you in ANY way, I will just never bother, because I will never put a dime of my money in your pocket...

 

And to be clear, this is just in response to what you (DWC) said yourself... not meaning to on JRJR's Charity work....

 

 

-carry on-

 

 

 

DISCLAIMER: Purely metaphoric. I in no way condone violence against women.

[Superman2006]

Let's try this example. Robert Kirkman comes up to you and says that he has really liked working with you, and wants you to help out with his signings, because they've become such a madhouse. And he really wants to cash in on this Walking Dead thing, because right now everybody just can't get enough. So he's going to start charging for his signature, and he wants to do as many shows as he can, even if some are on back to back weekends.

 

What he needs you to do is to be at each and every show with him, and be at every one of his signings the entire time, and even a little bit before and after. Since you know there will be a bunch of books signed for SS, you arrange for a CAW to be at every one of the signings from beginning to end. In the meantime, there are a lot of other great signings going on, but Kirkman really needs you to stay with him, so the only time you have to get those signatures is when you're not with him.

 

He doesn't want to pay you anything for doing this, because he knows that you'll be right there to take in all the SS books, and you should be able to make enough off of that to make it worth your while. The superstar he is, he has all of his expenses paid, but you're on your own. You need to pay for your own airfare, hotel, rent car and meals.

 

Now he's noticed that Walking Dead books signed by him for SS are selling for a bunch more than the unsigned ones on eBay, so if somebody wants their book to be SS, he thinks he should charge them even more. But it would be way too confusing for there to be a different or separate ticket in order to get SS, so he tells you just to build that into your price, and pay it to him after the show is over.

 

Fast forward a few years, and Walking Dead is still hot. Kirkman is doing one or two shows a month from coast to coast, and even some out of the country, and he drags you along to every one of them. You've lost count of how many hours you've spent helping him with all of his signings. At his latest stop in Phattown (this one's for Sean), I get to the front of the line with my stack of Walking Deads I've gotten from all my buddies, who are paying me to get their books signed, and hand Kirkman's handler my tickets. You ask if I plan on submitting them for SS, and I say yes. And can you speed things up, because I've got a stack of books for other creators, and one of them has a signing that ends in 15 minutes. I've got my submission forms filled out with my dealer number, so this shouldn't take long. You tell me that Kirkman would prefer that the books be submitted under your account, but he's OK if you submit them under your own account if you'll pay a fee for each book. In fact, if you want to help out with his next signing in a couple of hours (because he can never have enough help for his signings), you don't even have to pay the fee. I feel like telling you what you can do with your fee, but I've got a lot of money sunk in my nonrefundable tickets and the clock's ticking, so I begrudingly pay your fee and mumble "extortion" and a few other choice words under my breath (but loud enough so that you can hear), get my books signed, and vow never to get another book signed by Kirkman again if that's the way it's going to be.

 

When you get back to the hotel that evening after working three more signings for Kirkman, you think back to what happened with me, and wonder if it was fair to make you pay the fee. What do you think?

 

Hi George

 

I liked your analogy.

 

Please excuse my block of text, but similar to your analogy, here are my thoughts...

 

I think it's fair that a creator might want to charge a bit more for a book that is being submitted to CGC for SS since they often see SS'd books listed and often sold for much more $ on eBay. With someone as busy as Stan, who doesn't really need the money but wants to still give the fans what they want, the simpler the process is managed, the better, so what better way than to require all signed books to filter through another party that you've worked with before and who you know will devote the necessary resources to get done in as orderly a fashion as possible, show in and show out. To make a commitment to Stan and his handlers to follow him around the country throughout the year, it seems fair to me that DWC is able to recoup that cost (including travel costs and compensation for their helper(s)) and to make some profit for their efforts by handling the extra fee for all books that become SS'd through CGC, regardless of whose account they are submitted on. That's the simplest way for Stan's handlers to only have to go to one party, DWC, to find out how many books were CGC SS'd, and to get their portion of the additional CGC SS fees, and a way for DWC to unformly recoup their costs (and provide for some profit) across all books that are SS'd. When you're an 89 year old Comic Book legend, I can imagine that simple is good.

[comix4fun]

Posted this in the original thread... felt I should copy it over here as well...

 

And Transplant like I said before, if you would care to step up and set up your own signing opportunities with any of these creators I am NOT stopping you. Thank you for your opinion and input.

 

Been reading this thread from the beginning, and then I come across this post from DWC.

 

I am not a big poster here on the boards, I use it mainly as a information resource, but after seeing this post by DWC, I had to say something.

 

DWC, how can you possibly say this with a clear conscience?

 

If you set the wayback machine to last summer, just prior to the Baltimore Comic Con (where you had another "exclusive" DWC Stan Lee signing) myself, and several other local comic fans/collectors/lovers had taken the opportunity to take advantage of a local, Baltimore area comic store's previously arranged private signing with Stan the night before the Con. This private event had been arranged with Stan's people long before the show and had no conflict with your (DWC) signing at the Con on Saturday and Sunday.

 

Imagine how shocked I was to learn, just prior to "our" private signing opportunity with Stan, that you had found out about "our" private signing with Stan, and how you called the owner of the local shop (you called him personally I might add) who had arranged this, through proper channels with Stan's people, as well as CGC, and informed him that you were in charge of all Stan's signing events, and that "our"signing would not be permitted to happen.

 

Myself, and most of the other participants in this signing, were trying to support a local business, and were hoping that we might be able to see Stan himself at the signing, as well as seeing our books signed by the man himself. But, because this was a private signing, that you had no control of (or financial interest in) you just couldn't let it happen.

 

The local owner had to jump through every hoop imaginable to get our signing back on track after you selfishly tried to get our signing cancelled, just so your "exclusive public" signing at the Con would be the ONLY opportunity for local Baltimore comic fans to get their books done at.

 

How dare you try to come across as the good guy who is being persecuted when you tried to step on a small, local business, who had already arranged their event through the proper channels, just because you weren't getting your "exclusive".

 

Stop hiding behind your bs, because there are a lot of us who just aren't buying it anymore.

 

And for the record, I am a small collector who would love to get a Todd McFarlane sig on several of my books, but if the only way I can do it is to go through you in ANY way, I will just never bother, because I will never put a dime of my money in your pocket...

 

And to be clear, this is just in response to what you (DWC) said yourself... not meaning to on JRJR's Charity work....

 

 

-carry on-

Got real in here just now.

 

 

 

 

In case anyone missed DWC's response in the other thread:

 

 

 

 

EdRod68,

 

We fully remember this signing and it is unfortunate your recounting of what seems to be 2nd hand information is full of misunderstood facts. But then we realize that no matter what we say, even when supported by proof, will not change your mind. Once again ask Peter Dixon or NYComics if we have been supportive of their signings? With that said I will go to bed and get ready for another long day of signings in Calgary which has been fantastic so far and from what we have been told will have over 50,000 attending tomorrow and if today was any indications Calgary will reach that easily.

 

 

 

 

 

[inthehottub]

In 2010 Stan Lee did a signing at the Phoenix comic con. Joe P. worked his butt off handling all the Stan Less CGC SS. No DWC around. I got my books signed and paid the appropriate fee for each SS tier.

In 2011 Stan Lee did a signing at the Phoenix comic con. I went to the CGC booth and was told DWC will handle the Stan Lee signing. I got my books signed and paid the appropriate fee for each SS tier.

For me the fee was NO different. DWC or no DWC.

 

[Transplant]

Why don't you guys and girls buck the trend? Carry your derail elsewhere. The grown ups are talking. One of the last few even semi serious topics to be discussed here and you guys are cluttering it up with a not even funny derail.

 

Lighten up, Francis.

It has come to our attention that certain individuals have misappropriated the CGC Idea Committee moniker. We are placing such individuals on notice via this posting that the CGC Idea Committee will diligently prosecute all manners of copyright or other intellectual property violations. We have identified the offending individual and they will receive a cease and desist letter prepared by our attorneys. We advise them to contact their attorneys forthwith. Preferably, one who will respond in a timely manner.

[Transplant]

In 2010 Stan Lee did a signing at the Phoenix comic con. Joe P. worked his butt off handling all the Stan Less CGC SS. No DWC around. I got my books signed and paid the appropriate fee for each SS tier.

In 2011 Stan Lee did a signing at the Phoenix comic con. I went to the CGC booth and was told DWC will handle the Stan Lee signing. I got my books signed and paid the appropriate fee for each SS tier.

For me the fee was NO different. DWC or no DWC.

You weren't submitting on your own CGC account, were you?

[inthehottub]

In 2010 Stan Lee did a signing at the Phoenix comic con. Joe P. worked his butt off handling all the Stan Less CGC SS. No DWC around. I got my books signed and paid the appropriate fee for each SS tier.

In 2011 Stan Lee did a signing at the Phoenix comic con. I went to the CGC booth and was told DWC will handle the Stan Lee signing. I got my books signed and paid the appropriate fee for each SS tier.

For me the fee was NO different. DWC or no DWC.

You weren't submitting on your own CGC account, were you?

I do not have a dealer account and when I submit on my CGC account I get no discount on SS.

[Transplant]

That's the rub. Please see mschmidt's posts on why there's an issue when a facilitator, at a public signing, can't submit on their account for their customers, without paying DWC a fee.

[inthehottub]

That's the rub. Please see mschmidt's posts on why there's an issue when a facilitator, at a public signing, can't submit on their account for their customers, without paying DWC a fee.

I did read mschmidt's post and did not see how it applied to me. I'm not a facilitator, but i may be a facilitators customer. That is the rub.

[inthehottub]

Eyes open now

[Darrell F]

In 2010 Stan Lee did a signing at the Phoenix comic con. Joe P. worked his butt off handling all the Stan Less CGC SS. No DWC around. I got my books signed and paid the appropriate fee for each SS tier.

In 2011 Stan Lee did a signing at the Phoenix comic con. I went to the CGC booth and was told DWC will handle the Stan Lee signing. I got my books signed and paid the appropriate fee for each SS tier.

For me the fee was NO different. DWC or no DWC.

You weren't submitting on your own CGC account, were you?

I do not have a dealer account and when I submit on my CGC account I get no discount on SS.

Pretty sure no one gets a break on SS books. The 10% and all that is only for Universal submissions I think.

[MedicAR]

Okay, I've been checking in on the train wreck since it began and it seems obvious to me that we are now into our 16th page of going nowhere so I'll try to sum it up.

 

Some people don't like DWC, some do like them. This applies to everyone here, some people don't like me, so do like me. Some don't like you, some do like you. The long and short of it is this: BIG DEAL. Carrying on for page after page is not likely to change anyone's point of view and will just spread hate and discontent in general.

 

Some don't like the way DWC does business, others do like it or don't care as long as their books get done. That's okay, too. Complaining about it is not likely to change anything. Bring it to DWC's attention, but be professional and polite about it. If you still don't get satisfaction, go to Joe Pierson, and be professional and polite about it. Still don't get satisfaction? Too bad. Joe P is the CGC equivalent of the Supreme Court on Signature Series and what he says goes. Live with it.

 

Some don't like the deals DWC has in place with creators and again, some don't care. Complaining to everyone about it may bring attention to it, but it is not likely to get a change in those deals. If you don't like it, go to Joe Pierson with it. Don't get satisfaction? Too bad. Joe P is the CGC equivalent of the Supreme Court on Signature Series and what he says goes. Live with it.

 

The overall message here is that carrying on like this isn't helping anyone's case. For every pro there is a con and going back and forth is only creating hard feelings and animosity where it had not been before. If you feel you have a legitimate complaint, take it to the only people that can fix it, CGC. Otherwise, let it go.

 

 

[joeypost]

In 2010 Stan Lee did a signing at the Phoenix comic con. Joe P. worked his butt off handling all the Stan Less CGC SS. No DWC around. I got my books signed and paid the appropriate fee for each SS tier.

In 2011 Stan Lee did a signing at the Phoenix comic con. I went to the CGC booth and was told DWC will handle the Stan Lee signing. I got my books signed and paid the appropriate fee for each SS tier.

For me the fee was NO different. DWC or no DWC.

You weren't submitting on your own CGC account, were you?

I do not have a dealer account and when I submit on my CGC account I get no discount on SS.

Pretty sure no one gets a break on SS books. The 10% and all that is only for Universal submissions I think.

 

Why would DWC want all these SS books submitted under their account if their was no financial incentive? Seriously, why get in line for that big of a headache if you weren't making a few bucks on each deal.

[Darrell F]

I have already been corrected. I was going off info I got from CGC but they were talking about Collector's Society accounts.