Doug Schmell cashing in his vaulted massive collecion. Poll: Is this the top?

[500Club]

That would make the Green River books untouchable, right?

 

Is the green river killer, consigning them?

 

To my recall, the green river books do not come from Gary Ridgway, the convicted Green River killer.

 

No, but they came from someone else with a questionable life-style.

Define questionable. IIRC, Stevens was an odd duck, but that can certainly be said about the collector of the Curator books.

 

 

[namisgr]

What puzzles me is way he is auctioning everything at once? If it were me I would break all the runs up into separate auctions over a years span. For example in the July Heritage auction he should have just put his Avengers run only in that auction. I think he is without a doubt flooding the market in his move to sell everything at once.

 

I wouldn't think he needs the money that bad, but maybe he does.......

 

Either way IMO a very bad move to sell it all at once.

 

Recent history suggests otherwise. The collections featured in the last couple of Heritage Signature Auctions have done extremely well by being offered all at once. It was even pointed out earlier in this thread that many of the Twin Cities books are fetching alot less at scattered re-auctions than they did when first brought to market all at once by Heritage.

 

I seriously doubt many of the early ultra high grade SA Mavels that Doug is offering will sell for a bargain strike price.

[greggy]

I saw several big dollar Twin Cities books that just sold for half or less then their original HA hammer prices (when you factor in the commission) in this C-link auction.

 

I don't know who the consignor(s) was/were, or even if they were the same person who bought the books originally, but that's a pretty steep decline from one year to another.

Same thing happened with a bunch of the Billy Wright GA books, despite the hype-machine that is Mmehdy pronouncing them the greatest investment since tulip bulbs. It's like when a legendary coach leaves/retires - you don't want to be the guy that follows the legend, you wanna be the guy that follows the guy that follows the legend. (thumbs u

 

Similarly, or not, I'm just hoping to pick up some of the detritus from the upgraders downgraders upgraders downgrades.

Matt Doherty?

[Mmehdy]

Mmehdy, at first when I wrote the poll I wrote it thinking this was the top. But now, I'm thinking this auction is going to be historical, HUGE, over $6million, over $10 million. Why? Because those books are so pretty, and Doug pretty much got the pick of best Marvel collections. These are the best of the best. This is going to be insane.

 

The question is: can HA drum up interest from serious NY money to buy the keys and runs? Doug should have just went to Wall Street, he could have probably convinced someone to drop $10 million for the entire collection. The collection kept together is pretty much priceless.

 

But, it still may be a peak for a long time, maybe the market goes sideways for many years to adjust to these prices.

 

For many years, bob overstreet controlled the market..his book WAS the market, he made the CHART difference between SA and GA and that keep the SA market prices down, combined with the time difference and availability of the books, after this auction he is gonna have to alter it, I see the marvels being highest priced comics in the field 8 out of the top 12 within the next 5 years. AF 15 million dollar price showed that and just wait for the right copy of spiderman 1 to hit and explode. and I like a ultra high grade copy of SS1 on a long term hold( SS movie in devep now) as well as the second tier keys(where the smart buyers are looking for now)

Wall street sale will be next time, this is gonna make the Market...next seller will have the option to sell at say 10 mil. I think prices will be high but in the long run they will be CHEAP.....if you hold..............

[Trev]

Think about all the new books that have come to market and I think it's fair to say there are a lot of buyers out there.

 

There are definitely a lot of buyers, but a lot (maybe most) of those buyers are also sellers, which means that as books are coming in, books also have to go out. At some point there will be too many books out there.

 

Too many books might be the wrong way to phrase it.

 

Remember that in economics whenever prices drop low enough, people start buying again. It's true in EVERY cyclical economy whether it's stocks or comics.

 

So even if the market is flooded with books and prices drop as soon as prices drop to a certain point people start buying again propping them up. It's human nature and it's happened time and time again.

 

The problem with this is that comics are not stocks; there is a relatively tiny group of collectors keeping the high grade market afloat; if this tiny group experiences a "crash", most will likely exit the hobby and not return in the same capacity if at all, even if prices are low. I would even say ESPECIALLY if prices are low. Strong prices get people in a frenzy to buy, low prices turn people off, because people tend to follow the herd. Buyers want to see other people spending to feel comfortable with their own buying.

 

Remember, the collector base is aging. The increase in prices that we've seen can largely be attributed to the fact that the people with the most emotional/nostalgic attachment to these books have hit the prime of their financial lives. If enough of these spenders get burned by a crash, the market may never recover. Does this mean no one will be buying books? No.

 

 

This is wrong. Dead wrong. There is a relatively huge group of collectors who keep all of the comic market affloat. Some are high grade collectors, some are GA collectors, some buy what they like. But the fact is, unless you are out there doing it every day, you don't know who is buying what, and how many people are buying it.

 

The simple fact is that for everyone buyer you know, like Cheetah, and Doc Joe, and Barton, and Doug and Tom and the few others that are known by this board, there are a dozen you don't know about. Many I don't know about. I know I sold books to Eminem this weekend at Motor City Comic Con. So did Bob. There are people in this hobby buying books that no one on this board will ever know about.

 

I have guys at SDCC who I am relatively certain don't buy books anywhere else, except at the show. I am sure there are many stars, athletes, millionaires and billionaires, etc who love comics and are buying books that you and I will never know about.

 

I don't think this thing of ours will ever end, at least not in our lifetime, unless the entire economy crashes. At which point, no one is going to care anyway.

 

Considering how disconnected I am from the hobby at the moment, I'll defer to your experience, and I admit that I'm probably speaking out of turn.

 

Glad to hear that I might be wrong about the future of this hobby.

 

I wasn't trying to single you out, even though I probably did. Sorry for doing that.

 

My point is that this board is a tiny fraction of the comic buying community. If I had to base my sales on people from this board, I would probably be doing something else. My sales to all boardies probably comprise less than 1% of my sales in any given year, whether through the boards or at conventions, etc.

 

The real world is much bigger than this chat board.

 

With comic movies like Avengers coming out, I can't believe that anyone is pessimistic about the future of this hobby. It is literally one of the biggest, most popular, highest grossing, and maybe most important movies ever made.

 

Can you imagine a Spider-man, X-Men, or Fantastic Four movie once Marvel/Disney gets the rights back?

 

No need to apologize; if your experiences differ wildly from the points I was making, I'm interested in hearing about it.

 

Just to clarify, the point I was making wasn't necessarily about the market as a whole, but the highest end of it comprising of collectors like Schmell, Brulato, Barton, etc...

 

I've always wondered what would happen when these guys cashed out, and I've been pessimistic about the market's ability to absorb the books. It's important to note that many of the best collections were accumulated over decades, with substantial portions being acquired for a fraction of FMV today. There will need to be a lot of money coming into this hobby for these collections to be passed on while maintaining current prices. I have no doubt that certain books will continue to do well, but I wonder about all these late silver 9.6+ books that still command multiples of guide. I guess time will tell.

 

This is a very cogent observation. How many buyers of $100k + books are out there and what do they already have? It can't continue forever.

 

I assume Steve Borock has the more insight into that number than anybody else on the planet and given that he is the seller, believes the market is still there.

[VintageComics]

Mmehdy, at first when I wrote the poll I wrote it thinking this was the top. But now, I'm thinking this auction is going to be historical, HUGE, over $6million, over $10 million. Why? Because those books are so pretty, and Doug pretty much got the pick of best Marvel collections. These are the best of the best. This is going to be insane.

 

The question is: can HA drum up interest from serious NY money to buy the keys and runs? Doug should have just went to Wall Street, he could have probably convinced someone to drop $10 million for the entire collection. The collection kept together is pretty much priceless.

 

But, it still may be a peak for a long time, maybe the market goes sideways for many years to adjust to these prices.

 

It's hard to say what will happen.

 

For someone who has the money and is waiting for the opportunity to chase down the best copies it is a difficult endeavour at best, forcing you to wait patiently as one copy at a time comes to market.

 

An offering like this can be very appealing for someone who does not have the time but does have the money (and there are probably a few people who have the money) to get an instant A tier collection.

 

Drop a $1MIL or two and instant bragging rights.

 

I was at a store in West Hollywood CA that specializes in things that people don't need, they specialize in things people want. It's called Diva Rocker Glam.

 

http://divarockerglam.com/

 

I spoke to a person there who told me they sell stuff to all walks of people. I think he said that the Queen of some Arab nation (the country escapes me) shops there.

 

It's difficult to imagine sometimes how much money out there is waiting to dive into something that nobody else has.

 

I'm not saying there is a DiCaprio in the wings waiting to gobble these books up but there are people out there with insane amounts of money that absolutely want nice pieces of Americana and some are even specifically interested in comics. There is no doubt about that.

 

There are actors, athletes, musicians, Hollywood directors and producers, International investors and just your regular Joes who have made it well enough to be able to buy themselves a piece of either their childhood or American pop culture. These people exist in the hobby and have been verified by many credible sources.

 

I think the big question that everyone is waiting to see is what prices they will ultimately fetch.

 

Will the collection be a bust or exceed expectations?

 

I'm not making any predictions but am excited as heck to watch.

[Sardo Numspar]

To take that one step further, should dealers refuse to setup at (and buyers refuse to patronize) the Pittsburgh Convention because they would be financially supporting Michael George? Where does one draw the line?

 

If every atom in your fingernails was a galaxy in an ever-expanding universe, would you still trim them?

 

Ok, you win

[supapimp]

good lawd!

 

 

the STT 114 CGC 9.8 and TTA 44, 57, 59 CGC 9.8 are PCs too.

 

i wonder if my TTA 70 PC CGC 9.4 can be pressed to a CGC 9.8 like the other TTA PC books.

[Spiderphill]

good lawd!

 

 

the STT 114 CGC 9.8 and TTA 44, 57, 59 CGC 9.8 are PCs too.

 

i wonder if my TTA 70 PC CGC 9.4 can be pressed to a CGC 9.8 like the other TTA PC books.

After multiple press/ subs and possible micro trim. It's possible.

[red rocks-migration]

Mmehdy, at first when I wrote the poll I wrote it thinking this was the top. But now, I'm thinking this auction is going to be historical, HUGE, over $6million, over $10 million. Why? Because those books are so pretty, and Doug pretty much got the pick of best Marvel collections. These are the best of the best. This is going to be insane.

 

The question is: can HA drum up interest from serious NY money to buy the keys and runs? Doug should have just went to Wall Street, he could have probably convinced someone to drop $10 million for the entire collection. The collection kept together is pretty much priceless.

 

But, it still may be a peak for a long time, maybe the market goes sideways for many years to adjust to these prices.

 

It's hard to say what will happen.

 

For someone who has the money and is waiting for the opportunity to chase down the best copies it is a difficult endeavour at best, forcing you to wait patiently as one copy at a time comes to market.

 

An offering like this can be very appealing for someone who does not have the time but does have the money (and there are probably a few people who have the money) to get an instant A tier collection.

 

Drop a $1MIL or two and instant bragging rights.

 

I was at a store in West Hollywood CA that specializes in things that people don't need, they specialize in things people want. It's called Diva Rocker Glam.

 

http://divarockerglam.com/

 

I spoke to a person there who told me they sell stuff to all walks of people. I think he said that the Queen of some Arab nation (the country escapes me) shops there.

 

It's difficult to imagine sometimes how much money out there is waiting to dive into something that nobody else has.

 

I'm not saying there is a DiCaprio in the wings waiting to gobble these books up but there are people out there with insane amounts of money that absolutely want nice pieces of Americana and some are even specifically interested in comics. There is no doubt about that.

 

There are actors, athletes, musicians, Hollywood directors and producers, International investors and just your regular Joes who have made it well enough to be able to buy themselves a piece of either their childhood or American pop culture. These people exist in the hobby and have been verified by many credible sources.

 

I think the big question that everyone is waiting to see is what prices they will ultimately fetch.

 

Will the collection be a bust or exceed expectations?

 

I'm not making any predictions but am excited as heck to watch.

 

I agree, as a whole this collection is worth far more just from the time it would take to put it together, which is impossible. Now he is not getting that value from putting it together. I would think if Doug had shopped it in NYC as a whole, someone would have wrote a check for $10 million for it. This collection altogether is almost priceless.

[red rocks-migration]

Mmehdy, at first when I wrote the poll I wrote it thinking this was the top. But now, I'm thinking this auction is going to be historical, HUGE, over $6million, over $10 million. Why? Because those books are so pretty, and Doug pretty much got the pick of best Marvel collections. These are the best of the best. This is going to be insane.

 

The question is: can HA drum up interest from serious NY money to buy the keys and runs? Doug should have just went to Wall Street, he could have probably convinced someone to drop $10 million for the entire collection. The collection kept together is pretty much priceless.

 

But, it still may be a peak for a long time, maybe the market goes sideways for many years to adjust to these prices.

 

It's hard to say what will happen.

 

For someone who has the money and is waiting for the opportunity to chase down the best copies it is a difficult endeavour at best, forcing you to wait patiently as one copy at a time comes to market.

 

An offering like this can be very appealing for someone who does not have the time but does have the money (and there are probably a few people who have the money) to get an instant A tier collection.

 

Drop a $1MIL or two and instant bragging rights.

 

I was at a store in West Hollywood CA that specializes in things that people don't need, they specialize in things people want. It's called Diva Rocker Glam.

 

http://divarockerglam.com/

 

I spoke to a person there who told me they sell stuff to all walks of people. I think he said that the Queen of some Arab nation (the country escapes me) shops there.

 

It's difficult to imagine sometimes how much money out there is waiting to dive into something that nobody else has.

 

I'm not saying there is a DiCaprio in the wings waiting to gobble these books up but there are people out there with insane amounts of money that absolutely want nice pieces of Americana and some are even specifically interested in comics. There is no doubt about that.

 

There are actors, athletes, musicians, Hollywood directors and producers, International investors and just your regular Joes who have made it well enough to be able to buy themselves a piece of either their childhood or American pop culture. These people exist in the hobby and have been verified by many credible sources.

 

I think the big question that everyone is waiting to see is what prices they will ultimately fetch.

 

Will the collection be a bust or exceed expectations?

 

I'm not making any predictions but am excited as heck to watch.

 

I agree, as a whole this collection is worth far more. I would think if Doug had shopped it in NYC as a whole, someone would have wrote a check for $10 million for it. This collection altogether is almost priceless.

 

Or better yet, he should have posted it in the Comics for sale section for $10 million hahahaha

[revat]

Mmehdy, at first when I wrote the poll I wrote it thinking this was the top. But now, I'm thinking this auction is going to be historical, HUGE, over $6million, over $10 million. Why? Because those books are so pretty, and Doug pretty much got the pick of best Marvel collections. These are the best of the best. This is going to be insane.

 

The question is: can HA drum up interest from serious NY money to buy the keys and runs? Doug should have just went to Wall Street, he could have probably convinced someone to drop $10 million for the entire collection. The collection kept together is pretty much priceless.

 

But, it still may be a peak for a long time, maybe the market goes sideways for many years to adjust to these prices.

 

It's hard to say what will happen.

 

For someone who has the money and is waiting for the opportunity to chase down the best copies it is a difficult endeavour at best, forcing you to wait patiently as one copy at a time comes to market.

 

An offering like this can be very appealing for someone who does not have the time but does have the money (and there are probably a few people who have the money) to get an instant A tier collection.

 

Drop a $1MIL or two and instant bragging rights.

 

I was at a store in West Hollywood CA that specializes in things that people don't need, they specialize in things people want. It's called Diva Rocker Glam.

 

http://divarockerglam.com/

 

I spoke to a person there who told me they sell stuff to all walks of people. I think he said that the Queen of some Arab nation (the country escapes me) shops there.

 

It's difficult to imagine sometimes how much money out there is waiting to dive into something that nobody else has.

 

I'm not saying there is a DiCaprio in the wings waiting to gobble these books up but there are people out there with insane amounts of money that absolutely want nice pieces of Americana and some are even specifically interested in comics. There is no doubt about that.

 

There are actors, athletes, musicians, Hollywood directors and producers, International investors and just your regular Joes who have made it well enough to be able to buy themselves a piece of either their childhood or American pop culture. These people exist in the hobby and have been verified by many credible sources.

 

I think the big question that everyone is waiting to see is what prices they will ultimately fetch.

 

Will the collection be a bust or exceed expectations?

 

I'm not making any predictions but am excited as heck to watch.

 

I agree, as a whole this collection is worth far more. I would think if Doug had shopped it in NYC as a whole, someone would have wrote a check for $10 million for it. This collection altogether is almost priceless.

 

I would imagine that there are probably some very rich guys calling up HA or Doug and making offers on the whole collection as we speak, and there's at least some chance it never gets to auction if they reach the 'magic' number.

[VintageComics]

I would imagine that there are probably some very rich guys calling up HA or Doug and making offers on the whole collection as we speak, and there's at least some chance it never gets to auction if they reach the 'magic' number.

 

That's never going to happen.

 

 

[red rocks-migration]

and by the, it is his 'vault' -ed collection not 'vaunted', because these are the comics from his 'vault' on pedigree comics website.

[sborock]

Mmehdy, at first when I wrote the poll I wrote it thinking this was the top. But now, I'm thinking this auction is going to be historical, HUGE, over $6million, over $10 million. Why? Because those books are so pretty, and Doug pretty much got the pick of best Marvel collections. These are the best of the best. This is going to be insane.

 

The question is: can HA drum up interest from serious NY money to buy the keys and runs? Doug should have just went to Wall Street, he could have probably convinced someone to drop $10 million for the entire collection. The collection kept together is pretty much priceless.

 

But, it still may be a peak for a long time, maybe the market goes sideways for many years to adjust to these prices.

 

It's hard to say what will happen.

 

For someone who has the money and is waiting for the opportunity to chase down the best copies it is a difficult endeavour at best, forcing you to wait patiently as one copy at a time comes to market.

 

An offering like this can be very appealing for someone who does not have the time but does have the money (and there are probably a few people who have the money) to get an instant A tier collection.

 

Drop a $1MIL or two and instant bragging rights.

 

I was at a store in West Hollywood CA that specializes in things that people don't need, they specialize in things people want. It's called Diva Rocker Glam.

 

http://divarockerglam.com/

 

I spoke to a person there who told me they sell stuff to all walks of people. I think he said that the Queen of some Arab nation (the country escapes me) shops there.

 

It's difficult to imagine sometimes how much money out there is waiting to dive into something that nobody else has.

 

I'm not saying there is a DiCaprio in the wings waiting to gobble these books up but there are people out there with insane amounts of money that absolutely want nice pieces of Americana and some are even specifically interested in comics. There is no doubt about that.

 

There are actors, athletes, musicians, Hollywood directors and producers, International investors and just your regular Joes who have made it well enough to be able to buy themselves a piece of either their childhood or American pop culture. These people exist in the hobby and have been verified by many credible sources.

 

I think the big question that everyone is waiting to see is what prices they will ultimately fetch.

 

Will the collection be a bust or exceed expectations?

 

I'm not making any predictions but am excited as heck to watch.

 

I agree, as a whole this collection is worth far more. I would think if Doug had shopped it in NYC as a whole, someone would have wrote a check for $10 million for it. This collection altogether is almost priceless.

 

I would imagine that there are probably some very rich guys calling up HA or Doug and making offers on the whole collection as we speak, and there's at least some chance it never gets to auction if they reach the 'magic' number.

 

The entire collection will be in the July Signature auction. We are not "taking offers".

[red rocks-migration]

Mmehdy, at first when I wrote the poll I wrote it thinking this was the top. But now, I'm thinking this auction is going to be historical, HUGE, over $6million, over $10 million. Why? Because those books are so pretty, and Doug pretty much got the pick of best Marvel collections. These are the best of the best. This is going to be insane.

 

The question is: can HA drum up interest from serious NY money to buy the keys and runs? Doug should have just went to Wall Street, he could have probably convinced someone to drop $10 million for the entire collection. The collection kept together is pretty much priceless.

 

But, it still may be a peak for a long time, maybe the market goes sideways for many years to adjust to these prices.

 

It's hard to say what will happen.

 

For someone who has the money and is waiting for the opportunity to chase down the best copies it is a difficult endeavour at best, forcing you to wait patiently as one copy at a time comes to market.

 

An offering like this can be very appealing for someone who does not have the time but does have the money (and there are probably a few people who have the money) to get an instant A tier collection.

 

Drop a $1MIL or two and instant bragging rights.

 

I was at a store in West Hollywood CA that specializes in things that people don't need, they specialize in things people want. It's called Diva Rocker Glam.

 

http://divarockerglam.com/

 

I spoke to a person there who told me they sell stuff to all walks of people. I think he said that the Queen of some Arab nation (the country escapes me) shops there.

 

It's difficult to imagine sometimes how much money out there is waiting to dive into something that nobody else has.

 

I'm not saying there is a DiCaprio in the wings waiting to gobble these books up but there are people out there with insane amounts of money that absolutely want nice pieces of Americana and some are even specifically interested in comics. There is no doubt about that.

 

There are actors, athletes, musicians, Hollywood directors and producers, International investors and just your regular Joes who have made it well enough to be able to buy themselves a piece of either their childhood or American pop culture. These people exist in the hobby and have been verified by many credible sources.

 

I think the big question that everyone is waiting to see is what prices they will ultimately fetch.

 

Will the collection be a bust or exceed expectations?

 

I'm not making any predictions but am excited as heck to watch.

 

I agree, as a whole this collection is worth far more. I would think if Doug had shopped it in NYC as a whole, someone would have wrote a check for $10 million for it. This collection altogether is almost priceless.

 

I would imagine that there are probably some very rich guys calling up HA or Doug and making offers on the whole collection as we speak, and there's at least some chance it never gets to auction if they reach the 'magic' number.

 

nah the deals been done, I asked JUST KIDDING. but seriously, Heritage won't let it go now, because of the advertising value to them. Heritage wouldn't agree now to do a private sale and it looks like Doug has an agreement (contract) to sell now. Of course, Doug could just break his word (agreement) if he can make more $$$ and settle with HA for say $200k for their trouble.

[Mmehdy]

if ha gets 20% they are not gonna take 250K more like 500k

[Spiderphill]

I doubt Schmell would settle of 20%. Especially when he has an "auction" house.

[red rocks-migration]

if ha gets 20% they are not gonna take 250K more like 500k

 

I'd be surprised if Heritage is getting more than 5% total on this deal. The advertising of bringing this historic collection to market is worth millions

[red rocks-migration]

I mean, this truly is a once in a lifetime type collection going on sale. Its like the Mile Highs. The best(? bar one or two others) of all the best collections: Pac Coast, Curator, Canada JIM run, the TTA run etc etc. FF 1 in 9.6, all those 9.8s? Crazy stuff, priceless as a whole