Doug Schmell cashing in his vaulted massive collecion. Poll: Is this the top?

[COI]

Bob Siman/namisgr sent in a book he personally bought off the rack and it came back PLOD...can't remember if trimming was identified...Bob can weigh in...

 

It goes to say that CGC is guaranteed to make mistakes as they are human and not infallible...but in the interest of trimming and micro-trimming it falls much more in the category of pressing as harder to detect than other forms of restoration...thus there will be more mistakes...both identifying trimming that isn't there and missing it when it is...

 

It's gonna happen...just God forbid it happens to YOU especially with a high-value HG book...

 

Bob's book was an ASM 121 in 9.4 or 9.6 that CGC said was trimmed and he clearly knew it wasn't because he bought it off the stands. Trimming is a tough call because comics are trimmed at the press...finding a post-production trim is difficult, and in some cases, impossible.

 

Which then begs the question........why is CGC fine with guessing on micro-trimming when they clearly state that they aren't concern with pressing and disassembly/reassembly of a book because they don't want guessing to be one of their grading requirements?

 

What are they supposed to do, give trimming a pass like they have on pressing? If they do that, the wheels really come off.

 

I've always said, it's collectors who need to reevaluate why they're paying insane multiples from one grade increment to the next, at the higher grades, in light of all these issues.

[Trev]

This is the single most educational thread I've read since becoming a regular poster. I can't usually stay with a thread past 15 or 20 pages, but here we are at page 79 and I genuinely feel like I've learned something along the way.

 

It's almost a meta thread of all the issues documented and undocumented that come to light when dealing with high dollar books.

 

I've never paid more than $500 for a book (and only one of those!), but this year thinking of dipping my toe into more expensive waters and I can't think of any better preparation than this thread.

[bluechip]

Bob Siman/namisgr sent in a book he personally bought off the rack and it came back PLOD...can't remember if trimming was identified...Bob can weigh in...

 

It goes to say that CGC is guaranteed to make mistakes as they are human and not infallible...but in the interest of trimming and micro-trimming it falls much more in the category of pressing as harder to detect than other forms of restoration...thus there will be more mistakes...both identifying trimming that isn't there and missing it when it is...

 

It's gonna happen...just God forbid it happens to YOU especially with a high-value HG book...

 

Bob's book was an ASM 121 in 9.4 or 9.6 that CGC said was trimmed and he clearly knew it wasn't because he bought it off the stands. Trimming is a tough call because comics are trimmed at the press...finding a post-production trim is difficult, and in some cases, impossible.

 

Which then begs the question........why is CGC fine with guessing on micro-trimming when they clearly state that they aren't concern with pressing and disassembly/reassembly of a book because they don't want guessing to be one of their grading requirements?

 

What are they supposed to do, give trimming a pass like they have on pressing? If they do that, the wheels really come off.

 

I've always said, it's collectors who need to reevaluate why they're paying insane multiples from one grade increment to the next, at the higher grades, in light of all these issues.

 

What would be best would be is, if they must err, to err the side of missing an occasional trimmed book more so than labelling the occasional untrimmed book as trimmed.

 

And what would be even better is if they labelled books as trimmed when they know they were trimmed, and pressed when they knew they were pressed, and labelled all defects with words instead of labels and warnings that skew values less to the extent that they are, naturally, and far more to the extent that some people want them to be skewed.

 

That way, they are not "passing" on trimming or pressing. But neither are they "passing judgment"

 

 

[Mmehdy]

It is simple if a book is 9.8 which seems was Doug's goal who cares how the book got there. The true reality is the book is 9.8 whether thru pressing , Mico trim , or magic.

 

I think a lot of complainers here are pissed off because Doug got the jump on them, buying the best of the best, pressing or whatever.

 

The fact is this is the greatest condition collection ever to be sold in a single day without reserve. Just like any auction there will be bargains after you Monday morning quarterback when the auction is finished.

 

" you had better get it up"

 

Roy Batty

[revat]

It is simple if a book is 9.8 which seems was Doug's goal who cares how the book got there. The true reality is the book is 9.8 whether thru pressing , Mico trim , or magic.

 

I think a lot of complainers here are pissed off because Doug got the jump on them, buying the best of the best, pressing or whatever.

 

The fact is this is the greatest condition collection ever to be sold in a single day without reserve. Just like any auction there will be bargains after you Monday morning quarterback when the auction is finished.

 

" you had better get it up"

 

Roy Batty

 

Before everyone and their moms flames you, I'll try to convince you using a extreme but illustrative example.

 

Let's say I was an rich artist and I bought the Mona Lisa for $1B. But for some reason, there's always been a small barely perceptible chip below the left eye. It always bothered me, and after a year or so of looking at it, I got fed up, grabbed some paint and touched it up, just a little, to make it look the way I think it should have originally looked. Should the Mona Lisa now be worth more or less than before I touched it up? Would more people want it now or less or the same? Certainly you can argue that there will be SOME people who don't care, but by the mere fact that the market for the item shrinks, so does the value, even though the aesthetics have been enhanced.

 

My point is, if you don't care about trimming or restoration, more power to you, feel free to buy all the purple and green labels your heart desires, and at a likely significant discount. Nothing wrong with that. But I hope you can see why some people prefer the unrestored versions.

[Chippie-migration]

It is simple if a book is 9.8 which seems was Doug's goal who cares how the book got there. The true reality is the book is 9.8 whether thru pressing , Mico trim , or magic.

 

So you're pro-trimming? The guy that said purple label books were toilet paper?

[seanfingh]

 

Posts go bye-bye?

[Chippie-migration]

Yeah, thought I'd try a different tact this time.

[Silver Surfer]

It is simple if a book is 9.8 which seems was Doug's goal who cares how the book got there. The true reality is the book is 9.8 whether thru pressing , Mico trim , or magic.

 

So you're pro-trimming? The guy that said purple label books were toilet paper?

 

Mitch just when I thought you couldn't be more of an idiot you prove us all wrong yet again. Not that I would ever buy from you [or your partner in ludicrousy,Theo] but just based on the above statement I would recommend that people think twice before they ever buy anything from you.

[Heronext]

OCHOA: How much bigger can we get?

 

GEORGE JUNG: Sky's the limit. If it's accepted by actors and musicians, everybody else will follow.

 

COLOMBIANS: Actors and musicians... actors and musicians

[Gotham Kid]

It is simple if a book is 9.8 which seems was Doug's goal who cares how the book got there. The true reality is the book is 9.8 whether thru pressing , Mico trim , or magic.

 

So you're pro-trimming? The guy that said purple label books were toilet paper?

 

Mitch just when I thought you couldn't be more of an idiot you prove us all wrong yet again.

 

+1

 

Mmehdy, do you even bother to think before you type ?

[skypinkblu]

It is simple if a book is 9.8 which seems was Doug's goal who cares how the book got there. The true reality is the book is 9.8 whether thru pressing , Mico trim , or magic.

 

I think a lot of complainers here are pissed off because Doug got the jump on them, buying the best of the best, pressing or whatever.

 

The fact is this is the greatest condition collection ever to be sold in a single day without reserve. Just like any auction there will be bargains after you Monday morning quarterback when the auction is finished.

 

" you had better get it up"

 

Roy Batty

 

So, if the book is in a blue label, you don't care HOW it got there, micro trimming, is OK? and the person getting the books past the "censors" is brilliant. If they get caught and it's in a purple label, it's ...to quote a famous source "toilet paper"

 

 

 

Are you writing this all by yourself? or do you still have your editor, because I think I want to cry.

 

Oh and I guess I qualify as Revet's " and their moms"

[COI]

It is simple if a book is 9.8 which seems was Doug's goal who cares how the book got there. The true reality is the book is 9.8 whether thru pressing , Mico trim , or magic

 

[Spiderphill]

It is simple if a book is 9.8 which seems was Doug's goal who cares how the book got there. The true reality is the book is 9.8 whether thru pressing , Mico trim , or magic.

 

I think a lot of complainers here are pissed off because Doug got the jump on them, buying the best of the best, pressing or whatever.

 

The fact is this is the greatest condition collection ever to be sold in a single day without reserve. Just like any auction there will be bargains after you Monday morning quarterback when the auction is finished.

 

" you had better get it up"

 

Roy Batty

Who cares if a book was cleaned with chemicals and color touched. As long as its in a blue label and 9.8

[Davenport]

It is simple if a book is 9.8 which seems was Doug's goal who cares how the book got there. The true reality is the book is 9.8 whether thru pressing , Mico trim , or magic.

Ooo, ouch, Kinsley Gaffe, booyah!

 

"A gaffe is when a politician tells the truth - some obvious truth he isn't supposed to say."

[Mr.Diggler]

It is simple if a book is 9.8 which seems was Doug's goal who cares how the book got there. The true reality is the book is 9.8 whether thru pressing , Mico trim , or magic.

 

So you're pro-trimming? The guy that said purple label books were toilet paper?

 

Mitch just when I thought you couldn't be more of an idiot you prove us all wrong yet again.

 

+1

 

Mmehdy, do you even bother to think before you type ?

I think we all know the answer to that question. I wonder how he can type with his head so far up is ?

[dr_manhattan]

It is simple if a book is 9.8 which seems was Doug's goal who cares how the book got there. The true reality is the book is 9.8 whether thru pressing , Mico trim , or magic

 

 

I think this is the quote of the year. Not that I - and probably most of us - agree with it of course

[TheSurgeon]

This may have been posted already, but can someone post the current record for a single comics auction, specifically the dollars taken in by the auction house?

[lou_fine]

Bob Siman/namisgr sent in a book he personally bought off the rack and it came back PLOD...can't remember if trimming was identified...Bob can weigh in...

 

It goes to say that CGC is guaranteed to make mistakes as they are human and not infallible...but in the interest of trimming and micro-trimming it falls much more in the category of pressing as harder to detect than other forms of restoration...thus there will be more mistakes...both identifying trimming that isn't there and missing it when it is...

 

It's gonna happen...just God forbid it happens to YOU especially with a high-value HG book...

 

Bob's book was an ASM 121 in 9.4 or 9.6 that CGC said was trimmed and he clearly knew it wasn't because he bought it off the stands. Trimming is a tough call because comics are trimmed at the press...finding a post-production trim is difficult, and in some cases, impossible.

 

Which then begs the question........why is CGC fine with guessing on micro-trimming when they clearly state that they aren't concern with pressing and disassembly/reassembly of a book because they don't want guessing to be one of their grading requirements?

 

What are they supposed to do, give trimming a pass like they have on pressing? If they do that, the wheels really come off.

 

 

No, you silly guy!

 

I was indirectly suggesting that CGC should have taken the same stance with all forms of artifical manipulation similar to the stong stance which they took against micro-trimming. We certainly would not be in the same situation we are in today and I bet you that virtually nobody would even be thinking of pressing or diassembling their books.

 

Of course, I understand why CGC took this stance as pressing and all of the other former restoration activities which they now allow were a key component of their parent company's long-term business model. I just wish they had the balls to MANNUP and had publicly announce it on a proactive basis, instead of the "slow Chinese water torture leaking of information on message boards" strategy that we ended up with years after the fact. The method which they chose made it seem like they were doing something devious, deceitful, and trying to pull a fast one on the very same marketplace which they were supposed to be safeguarding.

 

I also understand why the decision was made not to announce this key change on a proactive basis and solicit the opinions of the collecting base. There would have been absolutely no chance that this change would have been accepted by the collectors, similar to how PCS (potential conflict of interest) and the plan to switch to uni-colour labels with a formal restoration rating system (actually a very good idea) never really made it pass the starting gate.

 

They got pressing and all of the other former restoration activities through in the only way that was possible, sneaking it in through the back door where nobody was watching, ingrained it in the system for a few years, have people in the know make a ton of money, and hope that by the time everybody else found out it would be too late to put the genie back in the bottle.

 

Game, set , and match!

 

[namisgr]

This may have been posted already, but can someone post the current record for a single comics auction, specifically the dollars taken in by the auction house?

 

The Heritage signature auction that featured the Billy Wright books and the Curator FFs did over $8.7 million in sales.