Doug Schmell cashing in his vaulted massive collecion. Poll: Is this the top?

[VintageComics]

Am I missing something? The book has 3 strong corners and a perfect spine.

 

It sure does - if you're only looking at the scan of the back cover.

 

 

Are there defects that I don't see?

 

:facepalm:

 

There is some micro wear along a few edges and the top right corner is a touch soft...I've seen some soft 9.8 books but I can't say this is one of them.

 

I mean, the scan is massive. Everything is going to look worse than it is.

 

Soft corners and 9.8 should not coexist.

 

Really? CGC has always allowed a soft corner on 9.8 books if the rest of the book warranted it.

 

One person says no soft corners, another says no spine stress and some people say no miswraps.

 

Bottom line is that they are all allowed in CGC 9.8 and always have been as far as i know.

 

Now whether people disagree with CGC standards or not is something else entirely.

 

I think there are worse examples to build a case on than this book.

 

 

 

 

[namisgr]

Am I missing something?

 

Just the top edge

 

If you're going to consider slight bending of cover overhang worthy of grade deduction, then every comic with overhang would have to be pressed to achieve its best possible grade. That would include nearly every early SA Marvel.

 

For me, the thing that keeps that comic from NM/M is the upper right corner of the front cover.

[VintageComics]

I can't tell if the upper right corner is soft or slightly bent over without a crease making it look soft. The scanner light is also making the top edge look a ton worse than it is, the top overflash looks solid but the glare on the non-color-breaking indents makes it look damaged. Looks like it could be solid, hard to tell from the scan.

 

That was my point. That top edge looks pretty nice. That's just a little bit of glare on the overhang. Even most brand new comics don't look that good.

 

 

[TheWatcher]

If you're going to consider slight bending of cover overhang worthy of grade deduction, then every comic with overhang would have to be pressed to achieve its best possible grade.

 

Or just not graded 9.8 (thumbs u

[MrBedrock]

It's a no doubt 9.7.

[Monkeyman]

Since Doug is known to have tried to pass a microtrimmed book by CGC, what are the chances there are others in his collection that slipped through? I think that any buyer grabbing one of these comics is really taking a risk (unless they just don't care as long as the label is blue). I'm actually surprised that Heritage would take the risk of selling the collection of a guy known to have tried to cheat CGC. Isn't there any liability for them if a buyer cracks/resubs and the book comes back trimmed?

 

Mike

[dr_manhattan]

I'm actually surprised that Heritage would take the risk of selling the collection of a guy known to have tried to cheat CGC. Isn't there any liability for them if a buyer cracks/resubs and the book comes back trimmed?

 

Now that's a great question!

[fantastic_four]

Isn't there any liability for them if a buyer cracks/resubs and the book comes back trimmed?

 

Nope.

[Speedy-D]

Isn't there any liability for them if a buyer cracks/resubs and the book comes back trimmed?

 

Nope.

Word. Why would HA be liable? CGC's own blue label is what suggests it's not restored.

[VintageComics]

It's a no doubt 9.7.

 

Do you think it's a 9.71 or a 9.69?

[comicdonna]

Isn't there any liability for them if a buyer cracks/resubs and the book comes back trimmed?

 

Nope.

Word. Why would HA be liable? CGC's own blue label is what suggests it's not restored.

Does CGC take care of the problem, since they originally gave it a blue label?

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Isn't there any liability for them if a buyer cracks/resubs and the book comes back trimmed?

 

Nope.

Word. Why would HA be liable? CGC's own blue label is what suggests it's not restored.

Does CGC take care of the problem, since they originally gave it a blue label?

 

it certainly won't be Doug. He'll be sipping a tropical drink on his own private island by then.

[lou_fine]

I'm actually surprised that Heritage would take the risk of selling the collection of a guy known to have tried to cheat CGC. Isn't there any liability for them if a buyer cracks/resubs and the book comes back trimmed?

 

Now that's a great question!

 

Definitely not Heritage since they had absolutely nothing to do with the grading of the book!

 

CGC might do it for maintain their integrity and reputation similar to the situation with Jason's micro-trimmed books. Actually, anybody playing in this end of the pool should be well aware of the dangers anyways.

 

If you don't want pressed books in your collection, you shouldn't be playing in this end of the pool. Similarly, if you don't want the chance of having micro-trimmed books in your collection, you also shouldn't be playing in this end of the pool.

 

 

[lou_fine]

Given the the direction this thread has gone this will appear off-topic, but I got a HA promotional in the mail which I have precieved is primarily to tout the "Doug Schmell" auction and in it is a CGC "Tales To Astonish #36" graded as a 9.8 and given the condition, I am not sure how it got a "9.8", any thoughts, maybe I am way off base? I should mention I am far from a professional grader but I have heard it said, grading, is as much as an art as a science.

 

http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7063&lotIdNo=67353#Photo

 

Persistence?

 

Am I missing something? The book has 3 strong corners and a perfect spine.

 

Are there defects that I don't see?

 

Roy;

 

Turn the book over and take a look at the front cover instead.

 

Although the back cover definitely looks like a 9.8, the front cover with the combination of the folded overhang along the top edge, soft top right corner, nicks down the right edge, over pressing to the point of bending the bottom staple, and not sure what's going on in the top staple area certainly takes the book out of the NM range for me.

[lou_fine]

I just realized this auction happens a week before SDCC. Is it going to suck a ton of money from the dealers at SDCC?

 

I know that if I bid on anything in this auction, it would mean bringing no money with me to San Diego, but I'm relatively small time.

 

Will heritage bring any of those books down to San Diego?

 

Trev;

 

Since the auction is a couple of weeks after the SDCC, I am quite sure that they should be bringing some of the books to San Diego with them.

 

I am not sure if it is really going to have an impact on the dealers down at the SDCC. For most dealers, I get the feeling that it is a completely different market from what is going on at Heritage.

 

Remember when Heritage held one of their big Signature auctions right in the middle of the SDCC a few years ago. Tens of thousands of avid hungry comic fans and dealers down there, but Heritage couldn't even pull in 20 of them to attend their big auction extravaganza.

 

Especially surprising considering all of the free drinks and food they were serving up to anybody who attended.

[Aces]

Given the the direction this thread has gone this will appear off-topic, but I got a HA promotional in the mail which I have precieved is primarily to tout the "Doug Schmell" auction and in it is a CGC "Tales To Astonish #36" graded as a 9.8 and given the condition, I am not sure how it got a "9.8", any thoughts, maybe I am way off base? I should mention I am far from a professional grader but I have heard it said, grading, is as much as an art as a science.

 

http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7063&lotIdNo=67353#Photo

 

Persistence?

 

Am I missing something? The book has 3 strong corners and a perfect spine.

 

Are there defects that I don't see?

 

Roy;

 

Turn the book over and take a look at the front cover instead.

 

Although the back cover definitely looks like a 9.8, the front cover with the combination of the folded overhang along the top edge, soft top right corner, nicks down the right edge, over pressing to the point of bending the bottom staple, and not sure what's going on in the top staple area certainly takes the book out of the NM range for me.

Wow so you don't think it's even 9.4?

I got my little brochure from Heritage in the mail yesterday and saw that 9.8 TTA 36 and it made me want to get a closer look at the book. Heritage's large scans make mole hills look like mountains. TTA in the 30s along with Strange Tales from 101-110 (1962 books in general) had terrible ragged cut right edges and overhang at the top. Probably all counts as production defects...

 

 

[lou_fine]

Given the the direction this thread has gone this will appear off-topic, but I got a HA promotional in the mail which I have precieved is primarily to tout the "Doug Schmell" auction and in it is a CGC "Tales To Astonish #36" graded as a 9.8 and given the condition, I am not sure how it got a "9.8", any thoughts, maybe I am way off base? I should mention I am far from a professional grader but I have heard it said, grading, is as much as an art as a science.

 

http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7063&lotIdNo=67353#Photo

 

Persistence?

 

Am I missing something? The book has 3 strong corners and a perfect spine.

 

Are there defects that I don't see?

 

Roy;

 

Turn the book over and take a look at the front cover instead.

 

Although the back cover definitely looks like a 9.8, the front cover with the combination of the folded overhang along the top edge, soft top right corner, nicks down the right edge, over pressing to the point of bending the bottom staple, and not sure what's going on in the top staple area certainly takes the book out of the NM range for me.

Wow so you don't think it's even 9.4?

I got my little brochure from Heritage in the mail yesterday and saw that 9.8 TTA 36 and it made me want to get a closer look at the book. Heritage's large scans make mole hills look like mountains. TTA in the 30s along with Strange Tales from 101-110 (1962 books in general) had terrible ragged cut right edges and overhang at the top. Probably all counts as production defects...

 

 

When was the last time you got your eyes checked?

 

You certainly don't need Heritage's large scans to notice the clear and visibly obvious issues with the top edge overhang as it almost looks like slab damage. I've got terrible eyesight and I can still see the problems with the top edge and the top staple area just by looking at Heritage's little phamplet even with my glasses off.

 

The Heritage large scan did allow me to see the few tiny nicks down the right edge and the more serious issue of the pulverizing of the bottom staple, most likely from way too much pressing. For a SA Marvel book which is probably around in true HG, I definitely wouldn't be calling this a NM copy let alone a 9.8.

 

BTW: This whole production defect scenario and CGC's total ignorance of these fugly defects makes no absolutely sense to me. If I am expected to pay huge 5 figures for an otherwise common book, I certainly would expect to get one without any clear and visibly ovbious defects that could probably be seen by an almost blind man. Yet at the same time they would knock the out of a book for having a tiny NCB crease which you could only see by holding the book up at an angle to the light.

 

 

[bluechip]

Given the the direction this thread has gone this will appear off-topic, but I got a HA promotional in the mail which I have precieved is primarily to tout the "Doug Schmell" auction and in it is a CGC "Tales To Astonish #36" graded as a 9.8 and given the condition, I am not sure how it got a "9.8", any thoughts, maybe I am way off base? I should mention I am far from a professional grader but I have heard it said, grading, is as much as an art as a science.

 

http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7063&lotIdNo=67353#Photo

 

Persistence?

 

Am I missing something? The book has 3 strong corners and a perfect spine.

 

Are there defects that I don't see?

 

Roy;

 

Turn the book over and take a look at the front cover instead.

 

Although the back cover definitely looks like a 9.8, the front cover with the combination of the folded overhang along the top edge, soft top right corner, nicks down the right edge, over pressing to the point of bending the bottom staple, and not sure what's going on in the top staple area certainly takes the book out of the NM range for me.

Wow so you don't think it's even 9.4?

I got my little brochure from Heritage in the mail yesterday and saw that 9.8 TTA 36 and it made me want to get a closer look at the book. Heritage's large scans make mole hills look like mountains. TTA in the 30s along with Strange Tales from 101-110 (1962 books in general) had terrible ragged cut right edges and overhang at the top. Probably all counts as production defects...

 

 

When was the last time you got your eyes checked?

 

You certainly don't need Heritage's large scans to notice the clear and visibly obvious issues with the top edge overhang as it almost looks like slab damage. I've got terrible eyesight and I can still see the problems with the top edge and the top staple area just by looking at Heritage's little phamplet even with my glasses off.

 

The Heritage large scan did allow me to see the few tiny nicks down the right edge and the more serious issue of the pulverizing of the bottom staple, most likely from way too much pressing. For a SA Marvel book which is probably around in true HG, I definitely wouldn't be calling this a NM copy let alone a 9.8.

 

BTW: This whole production defect scenario and CGC's total ignorance of these fugly defects makes no absolutely sense to me. If I am expected to pay huge 5 figures for an otherwise common book, I certainly would expect to get one without any clear and visibly ovbious defects that could probably be seen by an almost blind man. Yet at the same time they would knock the out of a book for having a tiny NCB crease which you could only see by holding the book up at an angle to the light.

 

 

Had a key book that seemed like a 9.8 to me and to the dealer who submitted it -- but then it came back as a 9.2 and it was explained to me that a tiny little crease on one corner made all the difference. I looked carefully and saw the tiny crease and accepted that. But then later saw more than a few 9.6 and 9.8 books -- from higher profile books -- which had similar defects or slightly greater ones (and lesser page quality).

 

People like to think that in grading the consistency will be that the best books get the best grades and that it doesn't matter what collection they are in or where they came from. And the idea that a defect is judged differently because it was judged to have occured during production can create an aura of potential inconsistency. First because most people don't care whether a ding or chip was caused during production or afterward, and second because, even if people do care, it should impact the grade either way. If it's certain, or even surmised, it was a production defect, then it could carry a note that the grade-impacting defect was caused during production, and people who like it that way could always choose to pay more despite the defect. But you wouldn't have as many people thinking the grade means it is equal in condition to others with a similar number, when in fact it isn't, necessarily so.

[mysterio]

For a SA Marvel book which is probably around in true HG, I definitely wouldn't be calling this a NM copy let alone a 9.8.

 

 

That seems a little hyperbolic. That book looks every bit a 9.4 even with the top edge overhang. Hell, considering that I've had a few 9.8s with more than one obvious color breaking spine stress this book is still a 9.8 compared to those IMO.

 

Isn't there any liability for them if a buyer cracks/resubs and the book comes back trimmed?

 

Nope.

Word. Why would HA be liable? CGC's own blue label is what suggests it's not restored.

Does CGC take care of the problem, since they originally gave it a blue label?

 

I would guess that if you resubbed the book still in the blue label slab that CGC would be more inclined to compensate you, whereas if you cracked it and then resubbed then you would have no way to prove that subsequent work hadn't been done to the book.

[tth2]

Money laundering through comics. I'm coming around more to the idea every day.

 

I didn't even begin to entertain that scenario. I was thinking more about some rich Arab prince who thinks Jean Grey is hot.

 

 

I've said it as a joke a bunch of times. But if people keep spending millions of dollars on comic books, it gets less tinfoil-hatty. It reminds me of the way that Joe Pesci explains it in Lethal weapon II - You pay dirty cash to the auction houses for the books, then immediately relist them and get a nice clean check from a legit company.

I have doubts whether Heritage would accept payment via suitcases full of cash.