Magic the Gathering vs. Comics?

[handyjack]

One thing I can tell you is when I said there was a mixed age group in this Game Table Store I have to state that the majority was in the 12 to 16 year age group, with actually some younger than that there with their "older" brother. So in 20 years when they start to have disposable income, will they be searching for key comics or MTG cards? Whereas when I go to my LCS the customer base appears to be much much older. This scares me.

[mintcollector]

One thing I can tell you is when I said there was a mixed age group in this Game Table Store I have to state that the majority was in the 12 to 16 year age group, with actually some younger than that there with their "older" brother. So in 20 years when they start to have disposable income, will they be searching for key comics or MTG cards? This scares me.

 

Why would this scare you? This would be the equivalent of asking if you saw the same group of kids reading comics; would they be buying Magic Cards when they have disposable income in 'X' number of years. The 'flaw' in your theory is that you are looking at people who you know are into Magic. Why can't they be into both comics and Magic?

 

I know a lot more nineteen year olds that collect comics, than collect Magic cards. Is that necessarily bad for the future of Magic cards? No. Magic cards are speculative because a long term price trend has yet to be established. It also has not passed the all important multigenerational check point. This occurs at about the thirty year mark.

 

Trust me comic books will go in cycles, but we are nowhere near a complete 'die' off.

 

Respectfully,

 

'mint'

[handyjack]

Sounds Good. You are the Voice of Reason. I may have over reacted.

Hey, there are people who collect all sort of things other than comics or MTG cards. Room for all.

[Spiderphill]

Mtg market is insane. I played in middle school maybe 13 years ago. As a young kid I always wanted vintage in anything I collected. So at the the time I was buying antiquities and legend sealed packs at 20-30 a pop also buying many of those keys at 20-30 a piece. I did open all of those packs at the time. Needless to say I have made a killing over the years. I just dumped the rest of my modern with a mix of old stuff for 700$. I should of kept everything but I really enjoy comics. Note: I was too embarrassed to go to tourneys then. I dont see the market dying at anytime. Though when a card is phased out of its playable tiers it does drop in price. So buying the moderns is a huge risk. Also the market is so insane. I would check to see if anything was hot in my collection. There have been countless times where a card was 1-2$ a year earlier that is so popular bringing in 20-30 a year later. Imagine if you had a crystal ball.

[Mephisto]

U

One thing I can tell you is when I said there was a mixed age group in this Game Table Store I have to state that the majority was in the 12 to 16 year age group, with actually some younger than that there with their "older" brother. So in 20 years when they start to have disposable income, will they be searching for key comics or MTG cards? Whereas when I go to my LCS the customer base appears to be much much older. This scares me.

 

Probably for the next 20 years or so is when early Magic players are going to ave the nostalgia and cash to buy the Time walk they couldn't afford in the mid 90's. That generation is now in the professional work force.

[Gsims718]

One thing no one seems to have mentioned is that many of the money tournaments involve using the older sets, which have a very limited print run.

 

As long as cash tournaments are being held that involve these cards there will always be a demand for them.

 

When it comes to mass quantities, the value in current sets drops off once they rotate out of the standard enviroment, but some retain value. It's pretty comparable to speculating on modern comics.

[Gsims718]

U

One thing I can tell you is when I said there was a mixed age group in this Game Table Store I have to state that the majority was in the 12 to 16 year age group, with actually some younger than that there with their "older" brother. So in 20 years when they start to have disposable income, will they be searching for key comics or MTG cards? Whereas when I go to my LCS the customer base appears to be much much older. This scares me.

 

Probably for the next 20 years or so is when early Magic players are going to ave the nostalgia and cash to buy the Time walk they couldn't afford in the mid 90's. That generation is now in the professional work force.

 

+1

 

I agree with this. I have already seen an unlimited black lotus over double in value from when I first started playing.

 

I don't see there prices sky rocketing, but no one is making huge summer blockbusters about MTG either. (I dont imagine it would be very good if they did..)

 

 

[Hamlet]

That ended up being pretty bad advice. There was strong collectable interest in MTG in 1995 or so when I played seriously. The dual lands were easy to sell for $5-$10 a piece back then. They now go for about ten times that 17 years later.

 

This is a collectable market with nearly a 20 year track record. These aren't beanie babies.

 

It is a highly addictive game that has a continuing flow of new players entering it. The original players are starting to enter their prime earning years.

 

I'd say they are less speculative than comic books were in the early 80s.

 

 

I understand that. I based that number off of what the original poster stated was happening in the past eight years. My nephew has been collecting these cards since inception and as soon as prices rose, I advised him to sell.

[kaylab]

I agree with this. I have already seen an unlimited black lotus over double in value from when I first started playing.

 

I don't see there prices sky rocketing, but no one is making huge summer blockbusters about MTG either. (I dont imagine it would be very good if they did..)

 

 

a MTG movie isn't so far fetched, and probably quite doable now that there are recognizable characters (and not just general Sword & Sorcery concepts) in the Planeswalkers. A movie centered around Jace, Sarkhan Vol, or Tezzeret, add in some Dragons/Monsters ala LOTR movies, and I think it would actually do alright in the theaters.

 

Also, have to respectfully disagree with MintCollector, I think MTG has already proven to be more than a fad or flash collectible, 20 years next year and still extremely popular. And not a forced collectible, and it is something parents (who originally played in 93 and 94) can or have introduced their kids in recent releases. This has crossed one generation, and is still strong. While many cards will reduce in value after a set rotates out, the tournaments keep value up for a great many cards, and built in nostalgia for old sets (the "I had that when I was younger") keeps value up on rare items.

 

[mintcollector]

I agree with this. I have already seen an unlimited black lotus over double in value from when I first started playing.

 

I don't see there prices sky rocketing, but no one is making huge summer blockbusters about MTG either. (I dont imagine it would be very good if they did..)

 

 

a MTG movie isn't so far fetched, and probably quite doable now that there are recognizable characters (and not just general Sword & Sorcery concepts) in the Planeswalkers. A movie centered around Jace, Sarkhan Vol, or Tezzeret, add in some Dragons/Monsters ala LOTR movies, and I think it would actually do alright in the theaters.

 

Also, have to respectfully disagree with MintCollector, I think MTG has already proven to be more than a fad or flash collectible, 20 years next year and still extremely popular. And not a forced collectible, and it is something parents (who originally played in 93 and 94) can or have introduced their kids in recent releases. This has crossed one generation, and is still strong. While many cards will reduce in value after a set rotates out, the tournaments keep value up for a great many cards, and built in nostalgia for old sets (the "I had that when I was younger") keeps value up on rare items.

 

Time will tell. I am stating it is speculative. If you do not see this, you must not understand the cyclical and linear sub markets in the antiques and collectibles field. This is no different than speculating on modern or even copper age comics. Very few of these items will be able to maintain their high prices for a long length if time. Some will. Overall though, no set 'floor' price has been maintained. We are talking about a simple and low cost mass produced item in a speculative market. This is not positive. I have been hedging my bets and have been 'right' a lot more times than I have been wrong (very few if any) in this 'realm.'

 

If you are a dealer, you are wise; assuming you are making money at this. However, to anyone who is buying for 'investment' I would be very cautious over the long term. This is not the kind of item one can buy, put into storage, and sell decades later at a huge profit. Again, with items and markets this young, it is very hard to predict what prices will do within five, ten, or even twenty years. When I 'invest' in something (meaning buy and hold) , I want to be sure it has a decent chance of upside potential. Thus is usually done by buying items that have a solid track record; sometimes not just decades, but many, many years (50+) is preferred.

 

I have learned throughout my trials, studies, and experience of being in this business. As I said before, experience and loss are the greatest teachers of all. Time will tell, but I will not be taking the risk.

 

Respectfully,

 

'mint'

[Bronty]

I agree with this. I have already seen an unlimited black lotus over double in value from when I first started playing.

 

I don't see there prices sky rocketing, but no one is making huge summer blockbusters about MTG either. (I dont imagine it would be very good if they did..)

 

 

a MTG movie isn't so far fetched, and probably quite doable now that there are recognizable characters (and not just general Sword & Sorcery concepts) in the Planeswalkers. A movie centered around Jace, Sarkhan Vol, or Tezzeret, add in some Dragons/Monsters ala LOTR movies, and I think it would actually do alright in the theaters.

 

Also, have to respectfully disagree with MintCollector, I think MTG has already proven to be more than a fad or flash collectible, 20 years next year and still extremely popular. And not a forced collectible, and it is something parents (who originally played in 93 and 94) can or have introduced their kids in recent releases. This has crossed one generation, and is still strong. While many cards will reduce in value after a set rotates out, the tournaments keep value up for a great many cards, and built in nostalgia for old sets (the "I had that when I was younger") keeps value up on rare items.

 

Time will tell. I am stating it is speculative. If you do not see this, you must not understand the cyclical and linear sub markets in the antiques and collectibles field. This is no different than speculating on modern or even copper age comics. Very few of these items will be able to maintain their high prices for a long length if time. Some will. Overall though, no set 'floor' price has been maintained. We are talking about a simple and low cost mass produced item in a speculative market. This is not positive. I have been hedging my bets and have been 'right' a lot more times than I have been wrong (very few if any) in this 'realm.'

 

If you are a dealer, you are wise; assuming you are making money at this. However, to anyone who is buying for 'investment' I would be very cautious over the long term. This is not the kind of item one can buy, put into storage, and sell decades later at a huge profit. Again, with items and markets this young, it is very hard to predict what prices will do within five, ten, or even twenty years. When I 'invest' in something (meaning buy and hold) , I want to be sure it has a decent chance of upside potential. Thus is usually done by buying items that have a solid track record; sometimes not just decades, but many, many years (50+) is preferred.

 

I have learned throughout my trials, studies, and experience of being in this business. As I said before, experience and loss are the greatest teachers of all. Time will tell, but I will not be taking the risk.

 

Respectfully,

 

'mint'

 

"Respectfully" can you stop being so darn pompous every time you state an opinion? It makes it a little hard to listen to.

 

These days especially, *everything* is speculative. Any collectible whatsoever. The rate with which they can rise & fall post internet is meteoric. I'd be a HECK of lot more concerned about the ability of some 'random kinda-nice-but-not-nearly-top-quality 150 year old table' to appreciate or even hold value as compared to a minty or even beat up, black lotus. The former are generally going out of style in modern houses and are difficult to store. The latter has a large base of appreciate fans and is a breeze to store.

 

You can act like the learned grandpa all you want but to even act like all MTG cards, or comics, or antiques are single markets is silly and that's what you are doing when you write off the entire class altogether on behalf of the entire board simply because it may not be ideal for YOUR 20 year hold criteria.

 

The fact is, a good item in any one of those areas can do well and although I see both strengths and weaknesses to MTG in particular as a collectible, to ignore new classes of collectibles because they 'only' have 20 year histories is lazy and ultimately to your own detriment

 

[Gsims718]

"Respectfully" can you stop being so darn pompous every time you state an opinion? It makes it a little hard to listen to.

 

These days especially, *everything* is speculative. Any collectible whatsoever. The rate with which they can rise & fall post internet is meteoric. I'd be a HECK of lot more concerned about the ability of some 'random kinda-nice-but-not-nearly-top-quality 150 year old table' to appreciate or even hold value as compared to a minty or even beat up, black lotus. The former are generally going out of style in modern houses and are difficult to store. The latter has a large base of appreciate fans and is a breeze to store.

 

You can act like the learned grandpa all you want but to even act like all MTG cards, or comics, or antiques are single markets is silly and that's what you are doing when you write off the entire class altogether. A good item in any one of those areas can do well and although I see both strengths and weaknesses to MTG in particular as a collectible, to ignore new classes of collectibles because they 'only' have 20 year histories is lazy and ultimately to your own detriment

[gyro-1]

Magic the gathering has been around since 1993. It's longevity has surpassed what I expected, and many cards are extremely valuable. Thousands of dollars and going up.

I saw the ones you were selling and have a Question would it be worth it to have them graded like baseball cards ?

[mintcollector]

I agree with this. I have already seen an unlimited black lotus over double in value from when I first started playing.

 

I don't see there prices sky rocketing, but no one is making huge summer blockbusters about MTG either. (I dont imagine it would be very good if they did..)

 

 

a MTG movie isn't so far fetched, and probably quite doable now that there are recognizable characters (and not just general Sword & Sorcery concepts) in the Planeswalkers. A movie centered around Jace, Sarkhan Vol, or Tezzeret, add in some Dragons/Monsters ala LOTR movies, and I think it would actually do alright in the theaters.

 

Also, have to respectfully disagree with MintCollector, I think MTG has already proven to be more than a fad or flash collectible, 20 years next year and still extremely popular. And not a forced collectible, and it is something parents (who originally played in 93 and 94) can or have introduced their kids in recent releases. This has crossed one generation, and is still strong. While many cards will reduce in value after a set rotates out, the tournaments keep value up for a great many cards, and built in nostalgia for old sets (the "I had that when I was younger") keeps value up on rare items.

 

Time will tell. I am stating it is speculative. If you do not see this, you must not understand the cyclical and linear sub markets in the antiques and collectibles field. This is no different than speculating on modern or even copper age comics. Very few of these items will be able to maintain their high prices for a long length if time. Some will. Overall though, no set 'floor' price has been maintained. We are talking about a simple and low cost mass produced item in a speculative market. This is not positive. I have been hedging my bets and have been 'right' a lot more times than I have been wrong (very few if any) in this 'realm.'

 

If you are a dealer, you are wise; assuming you are making money at this. However, to anyone who is buying for 'investment' I would be very cautious over the long term. This is not the kind of item one can buy, put into storage, and sell decades later at a huge profit. Again, with items and markets this young, it is very hard to predict what prices will do within five, ten, or even twenty years. When I 'invest' in something (meaning buy and hold) , I want to be sure it has a decent chance of upside potential. Thus is usually done by buying items that have a solid track record; sometimes not just decades, but many, many years (50+) is preferred.

 

I have learned throughout my trials, studies, and experience of being in this business. As I said before, experience and loss are the greatest teachers of all. Time will tell, but I will not be taking the risk.

 

Respectfully,

 

'mint'

 

"Respectfully" can you stop being so darn pompous every time you state an opinion? It makes it a little hard to listen to.

 

These days especially, *everything* is speculative. Any collectible whatsoever. The rate with which they can rise & fall post internet is meteoric. I'd be a HECK of lot more concerned about the ability of some 'random kinda-nice-but-not-nearly-top-grade 150 year old table' to appreciate or even hold value as compared to a minty black lotus. The former are generally going out of style in modern houses and are difficult to store. The latter has a large base of appreciate fans and is a breeze to store.

 

You can act like the learned grandpa all you want but to even act like all MTG cards, or comics, or antiques are single markets is preposterous. A good item in any one of those areas can do well and although I see both strengths and weaknesses to MTG in particular as a collectible, to ignore new classes of collectibles because they 'only' have 20 year histories is lazy and ultimately to your own detriment

all have their own risk/reward profiles

 

You are forgetting one simple fallacy in your argument. What I buy for my own investment and what I make a lot of money selling are two different things. From previous discussions this should be appearent. This was the only comment I could find in your monologue worthy of my response. The rest is worthy of using the ignore button. I assure you I am not as old as some make me out to be. This should also be appearent based on other discussions. If you do not like what I am saying, again, I implore you to do one of two things. The first is state an alternate factual point of view without insulting my posting style or how you may think I ''come across.' The second, and at this point, I would appreciate it, would involve the use of the ignore button. I would never ask another board member to change anything on my behalf. Am I not worthy of the same basic respect?

 

I have a vested interest in a lot of the items I do not consider worthy investments. This is what being a dealer involves; at times.

 

Again, neither viewpoint can be proven at this time. That being said, anyone should be able to ascertain that objects with a longer price and collecting history, are less speculative than those without. It has nothing to do with an object bring 'worthy.' This knowledge is readily available in any book written about the antiques and collectibles field.

 

I do apologize if this offends you.

 

'mint'

[WeR138]

[Bronty]

I agree with this. I have already seen an unlimited black lotus over double in value from when I first started playing.

 

I don't see there prices sky rocketing, but no one is making huge summer blockbusters about MTG either. (I dont imagine it would be very good if they did..)

 

 

a MTG movie isn't so far fetched, and probably quite doable now that there are recognizable characters (and not just general Sword & Sorcery concepts) in the Planeswalkers. A movie centered around Jace, Sarkhan Vol, or Tezzeret, add in some Dragons/Monsters ala LOTR movies, and I think it would actually do alright in the theaters.

 

Also, have to respectfully disagree with MintCollector, I think MTG has already proven to be more than a fad or flash collectible, 20 years next year and still extremely popular. And not a forced collectible, and it is something parents (who originally played in 93 and 94) can or have introduced their kids in recent releases. This has crossed one generation, and is still strong. While many cards will reduce in value after a set rotates out, the tournaments keep value up for a great many cards, and built in nostalgia for old sets (the "I had that when I was younger") keeps value up on rare items.

 

Time will tell. I am stating it is speculative. If you do not see this, you must not understand the cyclical and linear sub markets in the antiques and collectibles field. This is no different than speculating on modern or even copper age comics. Very few of these items will be able to maintain their high prices for a long length if time. Some will. Overall though, no set 'floor' price has been maintained. We are talking about a simple and low cost mass produced item in a speculative market. This is not positive. I have been hedging my bets and have been 'right' a lot more times than I have been wrong (very few if any) in this 'realm.'

 

If you are a dealer, you are wise; assuming you are making money at this. However, to anyone who is buying for 'investment' I would be very cautious over the long term. This is not the kind of item one can buy, put into storage, and sell decades later at a huge profit. Again, with items and markets this young, it is very hard to predict what prices will do within five, ten, or even twenty years. When I 'invest' in something (meaning buy and hold) , I want to be sure it has a decent chance of upside potential. Thus is usually done by buying items that have a solid track record; sometimes not just decades, but many, many years (50+) is preferred.

 

I have learned throughout my trials, studies, and experience of being in this business. As I said before, experience and loss are the greatest teachers of all. Time will tell, but I will not be taking the risk.

 

Respectfully,

 

'mint'

 

"Respectfully" can you stop being so darn pompous every time you state an opinion? It makes it a little hard to listen to.

 

These days especially, *everything* is speculative. Any collectible whatsoever. The rate with which they can rise & fall post internet is meteoric. I'd be a HECK of lot more concerned about the ability of some 'random kinda-nice-but-not-nearly-top-grade 150 year old table' to appreciate or even hold value as compared to a minty black lotus. The former are generally going out of style in modern houses and are difficult to store. The latter has a large base of appreciate fans and is a breeze to store.

 

You can act like the learned grandpa all you want but to even act like all MTG cards, or comics, or antiques are single markets is preposterous. A good item in any one of those areas can do well and although I see both strengths and weaknesses to MTG in particular as a collectible, to ignore new classes of collectibles because they 'only' have 20 year histories is lazy and ultimately to your own detriment

all have their own risk/reward profiles

 

You are forgetting one simple fallacy in your argument. What I buy for my own investment and what I make a lot of money selling are two different things. From previous discussions this should be appearent. This was the only comment I could find in your monologue worthy of my response. The rest is worthy of using the ignore button. I assure you I am not as old as some make me out to be. This should also be appearent based on other discussions. If you do not like what I am saying, again, I implore you to do one of two things. The first is state an alternate factual point of view without insulting my posting style or how you may think I ''come across.' The second, and at this point, I would appreciate it, would involve the use of the ignore button. I would never ask another board member to change anything on my behalf. Am I not worthy of the same basic respect?

 

I have a vested interest in a lot of the items I do not consider worthy investments. This is what being a dealer involves; at times.

 

Again, neither viewpoint can be proven at this time. That being said, anyone should be able to ascertain that objects with a longer price and collecting history, are less speculative than those without. It has nothing to do with an object bring 'worthy.' This knowledge is readily available in any book written about the antiques and collectibles field.

 

I do apologize if this offends you.

 

'mint'

 

oh just STFU *respectfully*.

 

I am putting you on ignore. Good idea.

[Mephisto]

I stupidly traded a decent chunk of MTG rare's from Unlimited through Alliances to a friend probably around 1997 or so for Star Wars rares. I thought Star Wars has been huge for a long time, MTG will probably be worth mess in 5 years. Instead most early Star Wars rare's are worth about 25% of what they were originally, as newer sets issued cards of the same characters but just more powerful. I don't know if it's still the case but the Luke Jedi and Emperor seemed to be the only ones that still had decent value which probably has to due with both the power of the cards but also I would imagine a lower print run than the initial sets as popularity of the game waned. Star Wars is still bigger than MTG but the cards are not. The only think worse I did was trade an ARod Die Cut SP rookie card fora VG bronze Spider-Man comic in the mid 1990's. I figured ARod was just going to wind up like other hot prospects Nigel Wilson and David Neid.

[mintcollector]

What does STFU mean? Seriously, I have no idea. If someone could let me know I would appreciate it.

 

I can't be offended by something I do not know the meaning of, oh well, moving on.

 

If my views do offend the collecting community as a whole, I do apologize. That being said, this is ONLY my opinion.. You may disagree.

 

'mint'

 

 

[mintcollector]

I stupidly traded a decent chunk of MTG rare's from Unlimited through Alliances to a friend probably around 1997 or so for Star Wars rares. I thought Star Wars has been huge for a long time, MTG will probably be worth mess in 5 years. Instead most early Star Wars rare's are worth about 25% of what they were originally, as newer sets issued cards of the same characters but just more powerful. I don't know if it's still the case but the Luke Jedi and Emperor seemed to be the only ones that still had decent value which probably has to due with both the power of the cards but also I would imagine a lower print run than the initial sets as popularity of the game waned. Star Wars is still bigger than MTG but the cards are not. The only think worse I did was trade an ARod Die Cut SP rookie card fora VG bronze Spider-Man comic in the mid 1990's. I figured ARod was just going to wind up like other hot prospects Nigel Wilson and David Neid.

 

What did you trade for? I love the original SW 12 backs!

[Shootydog]

To avoid speculation an investment must be either directly backed by the pledge of sufficient collateral or insured by sufficient assets pledged by a third party. A thoroughly analyzed loan of money backed by collateral with greater immediate value than the loan amount may be considered an investment. A financial instrument that is insured by the pledge of assets from a third party, such as a deposit in a financial institution insured by a government agency may be considered an investment. Examples of these agencies include, in the United States, the Securities Investor Protection Corporation, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, or National Credit Union Administration, or in Canada, the Canada Deposit Insurance Corporation.

 

I suppose it could be argued that the above definition is correct. Inasmuch, comic books and magic cards are both speculative.