CGG Books " Comic Grading Group " Initial observations

[FFB]

CGC needs to fix their turnaround times or CGG is going to steal a good portion of their marketshare whether CGG is "as good" as CGC or not. I am already seeing this happen with moderns, but surprisingly, I am seeing it happen far more frequently with silver age high dollar books (such as the Amazing Spider-Man #10 CGG 9.4 that Andy just sold).

 

I was one who swore I 'd never use CGG. But I have some modernd in at CGC right now that I submitted at Wondercon on 5/01. They are still only shipping as of 3/18 last I looked. This is supposed to be a 4 week service! This back up working its way toward the economy back up of 4 months! I just thought it was worth giving CGG a try...I'm just too impatient perhaps.

 

Most significantly, I wish CGC wiould simply post a realistric turnaround time. In three years I have never gotten a book back in less than 4 months. Why do they continue to advertise 40 business days as their turnaround time? I love the folks at CGC, but they have opened the door, all by themselves, for this added competition!

 

I was thinking about this issue this morning and I think you're right. One thing that successful monopolies have always had is the capacity to service all of the available demand for the product within a timeframe that is satisfactory to consumers of the product.

 

CGC is nowhere close to this. If they want to maintain market dominance and market share, they need to change this in a big hurry without sacrificing quality. What is the "gold standard" of the industry today can change in a big hurry.

 

As more and more dealers start using CGG with good service and good results, CGG WILL STEAL MARKET SHARE from CGC in big chunks. And if the CGG-converts are happy with the service they get, word of mouth will travel FAST and CGG will be a legitimate competitor before they know it. Screwups like the doctored scan, the PVC inner well, the lack of qualifications of the graders and restoration detection experts, and the questionable connections to unscrupulous sellers may turn off a few buyers, but most buyers either won't know about these historical screw-ups or, if they are otherwise satisfied with CGG's service, they'll forgive them as nothing more than glitches in the early stages of a new company -- sort of like the industry did not reject CGC when Marnin Rosenberg slipped six restored books by CGC in the early days and publicized it for anyone who would listen.

[FFB]

Yes, CGG will be starting to get much more popular. I've just finish sending about 20 comics to them and will only use there service for now on. Their grading is almost at par with CGC of what I've seen so far. Ebay has about 200 to 300 CGG book's right now and that number will be in the 1000's by next year. Wait and see

 

CGG misses a lot of restoration though. And their holder isn't archival-quality. But as long as those two things don't bother you, no biggie I guess!

 

If you have books that you plan on selling and not keeping why should either of those things be a factor?

 

Because I'd hate to:

 

1) Be a seller who sells a book that is cracked open and resubmitted to CGC, only to come back purple -- everyone would accuse ME of having color touched it, even if I wasn't the person who submitted the book to CGG.

 

2) Be a seller who helps promote the myth that CGG's holder is a safe, archival-quality holder and that CGG is a high-quality, cheaper, and faster alternative to CGC.

 

If CGG hired a real restoration detection professional (sorry, Donovan Elliott does not qualify in my opinion), improved their certification abilities by hiring some real experts who can authenticate comics that are frequently counterfeited (like the underground comics that Comicwiz talks about), and switched its inner well material to Melinex, I'd feel a lot differently about them. That's three pretty small steps to take, and this is very doable. CGG has already begun to surmount one of the big barriers to entry in this market -- they have managed to convince lots of people who buy slabbed books that a book in a CGG slab is accurately graded and probably not restored. Whether this is true or not isn't the point -- they are generating public perception that it IS true.

[deathlok]

CGC needs to fix their turnaround times or CGG is going to steal a good portion of their marketshare whether CGG is "as good" as CGC or not. I am already seeing this happen with moderns, but surprisingly, I am seeing it happen far more frequently with silver age high dollar books (such as the Amazing Spider-Man #10 CGG 9.4 that Andy just sold).

 

I was one who swore I 'd never use CGG. But I have some modernd in at CGC right now that I submitted at Wondercon on 5/01. They are still only shipping as of 3/18 last I looked. This is supposed to be a 4 week service! This back up working its way toward the economy back up of 4 months! I just thought it was worth giving CGG a try...I'm just too impatient perhaps.

 

Most significantly, I wish CGC wiould simply post a realistric turnaround time. In three years I have never gotten a book back in less than 4 months. Why do they continue to advertise 40 business days as their turnaround time? I love the folks at CGC, but they have opened the door, all by themselves, for this added competition!

 

I was thinking about this issue this morning and I think you're right. One thing that successful monopolies have always had is the capacity to service all of the available demand for the product within a timeframe that is satisfactory to consumers of the product.

 

CGC is nowhere close to this. If they want to maintain market dominance and market share, they need to change this in a big hurry without sacrificing quality. What is the "gold standard" of the industry today can change in a big hurry.

 

As more and more dealers start using CGG with good service and good results, CGG WILL STEAL MARKET SHARE from CGC in big chunks. And if the CGG-converts are happy with the service they get, word of mouth will travel FAST and CGG will be a legitimate competitor before they know it. Screwups like the doctored scan, the PVC inner well, the lack of qualifications of the graders and restoration detection experts, and the questionable connections to unscrupulous sellers may turn off a few buyers, but most buyers either won't know about these historical screw-ups or, if they are otherwise satisfied with CGG's service, they'll forgive them as nothing more than glitches in the early stages of a new company -- sort of like the industry did not reject CGC when Marnin Rosenberg slipped six restored books by CGC in the early days and publicized it for anyone who would listen.

That's the key thing for CGG, they have to repair the problem areas. Regardless of the wait times of CGC, if CGG corrected their problems they would have become a competitor anyway. CGC is only helping that process along by slow turnarounds. The slow turnaround times I think are directly related to the pre-screen books. The huge increase in current books has hurt regular grading.

[deathlok]

Yes, CGG will be starting to get much more popular. I've just finish sending about 20 comics to them and will only use there service for now on. Their grading is almost at par with CGC of what I've seen so far. Ebay has about 200 to 300 CGG book's right now and that number will be in the 1000's by next year. Wait and see

 

CGG misses a lot of restoration though. And their holder isn't archival-quality. But as long as those two things don't bother you, no biggie I guess!

 

If you have books that you plan on selling and not keeping why should either of those things be a factor?

 

Because I'd hate to:

 

1) Be a seller who sells a book that is cracked open and resubmitted to CGC, only to come back purple -- everyone would accuse ME of having color touched it, even if I wasn't the person who submitted the book to CGG.

 

2) Be a seller who helps promote the myth that CGG's holder is a safe, archival-quality holder and that CGG is a high-quality, cheaper, and faster alternative to CGC.

 

If CGG hired a real restoration detection professional (sorry, Donovan Elliott does not qualify in my opinion), improved their certification abilities by hiring some real experts who can authenticate comics that are frequently counterfeited (like the underground comics that Comicwiz talks about), and switched its inner well material to Melinex, I'd feel a lot differently about them. That's three pretty small steps to take, and this is very doable. CGG has already begun to surmount one of the big barriers to entry in this market -- they have managed to convince lots of people who buy slabbed books that a book in a CGG slab is accurately graded and probably not restored. Whether this is true or not isn't the point -- they are generating public perception that it IS true.

 

As CGG garners more of the graded market I don't think buyers will hold sellers liable for CGG shortcomings. So far there has only been one seller who has come under question for tampering with books either to/from CGG. As to your second point, just because you sell the slabs doesn't mean you have to promote the product. You are only selling them for the benefit of the buyer.

[BassGMan]

 

I was thinking about this issue this morning and I think you're right. One thing that successful monopolies have always had is the capacity to service all of the available demand for the product within a timeframe that is satisfactory to consumers of the product.

 

CGC is nowhere close to this. If they want to maintain market dominance and market share, they need to change this in a big hurry without sacrificing quality. What is the "gold standard" of the industry today can change in a big hurry.

 

As more and more dealers start using CGG with good service and good results, CGG WILL STEAL MARKET SHARE from CGC in big chunks. And if the CGG-converts are happy with the service they get, word of mouth will travel FAST and CGG will be a legitimate competitor before they know it. Screwups like the doctored scan, the PVC inner well, the lack of qualifications of the graders and restoration detection experts, and the questionable connections to unscrupulous sellers may turn off a few buyers, but most buyers either won't know about these historical screw-ups or, if they are otherwise satisfied with CGG's service, they'll forgive them as nothing more than glitches in the early stages of a new company -- sort of like the industry did not reject CGC when Marnin Rosenberg slipped six restored books by CGC in the early days and publicized it for anyone who would listen.

 

Right on Scott. I agree 100% with everything you just said. And to address Gemworks question about why CGC doesn't change their advertised turnaround times? I am guessing that this is in order to lure in new customers. If they stated 90-120 business days (or something similar) how many newbies do you think would be willing to wait that distance? Us oldies that are so CGC reliant and faithful they realize (or at least think) that they have us in their back pocket and will just put up with it. And many of us do. But I agree with FFB's statements that if CGG plays it straight from here on out, they may start stealing customers. I am one of them that is right in the middle. Just waiting for CGG's rep to improve and it's bye, bye CGC for everything but my highest value books. ------Sid

[FFB]

 

I was thinking about this issue this morning and I think you're right. One thing that successful monopolies have always had is the capacity to service all of the available demand for the product within a timeframe that is satisfactory to consumers of the product.

 

CGC is nowhere close to this. If they want to maintain market dominance and market share, they need to change this in a big hurry without sacrificing quality. What is the "gold standard" of the industry today can change in a big hurry.

 

As more and more dealers start using CGG with good service and good results, CGG WILL STEAL MARKET SHARE from CGC in big chunks. And if the CGG-converts are happy with the service they get, word of mouth will travel FAST and CGG will be a legitimate competitor before they know it. Screwups like the doctored scan, the PVC inner well, the lack of qualifications of the graders and restoration detection experts, and the questionable connections to unscrupulous sellers may turn off a few buyers, but most buyers either won't know about these historical screw-ups or, if they are otherwise satisfied with CGG's service, they'll forgive them as nothing more than glitches in the early stages of a new company -- sort of like the industry did not reject CGC when Marnin Rosenberg slipped six restored books by CGC in the early days and publicized it for anyone who would listen.

 

Right on Scott. I agree 100% with everything you just said. And to address Gemworks question about why CGC doesn't change their advertised turnaround times? I am guessing that this is in order to lure in new customers. If they stated 90-120 business days (or something similar) how many newbies do you think would be willing to wait that distance? Us oldies that are so CGC reliant and faithful they realize (or at least think) that they have us in their back pocket and will just put up with it. And many of us do. But I agree with FFB's statements that if CGG plays it straight from here on out, they may start stealing customers. I am one of them that is right in the middle. Just waiting for CGG's rep to improve and it's bye, bye CGC for everything but my highest value books. ------Sid

 

The thing is, CGG is already seeing some high dollar books. If they address their shortcomings, they'll get the high dollar books too, at least for silver age and later.

[Murph]

If you have books that you plan on selling and not keeping why should either of those things be a factor?

 

If I plan on attempting to sneak some restored books through, CGG will be the first place I'll go! Otherwise, I'm sticking with CGC or raw.

 

Brian

[THE_BEYONDER]

If you have books that you plan on selling and not keeping why should either of those things be a factor?

 

If I plan on attempting to sneak some restored books through, CGG will be the first place I'll go! Otherwise, I'm sticking with CGC or raw.

 

Brian

 

What if CGC & CGG books of the same grade sold for exactly the same amount?

 

Would you still wait four months to get the books you're selling back from CGC?

[jimm94]

Regarding CGC's slow turnarounds, I think it would be interesting if you could choose to schedule an appointment in advance for your book to be graded within a certain timeframe.

 

i.e. - If Standards are taking about 40 days instead of the intended 15, I could make an appointment to send in my comic about a month from now, and would be guaranteed to have it back within that 15 day timeframe (minus shipping time of course).

 

Same deal with Economy. If it's taking 4 months instead of 40 days, let me schedule a grading 3 months from now.

 

If you choose the appointment guarantee and CGC doesn't deliver the goods, then they would have to discount the service. I'd be willing to pay an extra buck or two for the guaranteed turnaround. Kinda like Domino's old "pizza in 30 minutes or your money back" guarantee.

 

Granted, this idea doesn't really help people who are slabbing to sell except it keeps the books in their posession in case they decide to just sell raw. But if I'm slabbing a keeper for my collection, then accepting submissions in this way allows me to enjoy my comic until CGC can grade it within the advertised level of service for the tier. Obviously, the smart azz response to all this is "Use Express or Walkthrough if you're in a hurry.", but this idea doesn't break the higher profit business model of those tiers.

 

Unfortunately, CGC would probably never go for it because people might change their minds or not ship in time for their "appointment", resulting in a loss of business. Of course, they could slightly over book like airlines do, and assume that some customers are going to flake. That would be a risky gamble, though.

 

Regardless, turnaround times that are 3-4 times longer than advertised are simply unacceptable. This is the meanest thing I have ever said about CGC, but it's true.

[Murph]

If I were to own the book? CGC without a doubt. Either way, I don't wait that long. I sign up for CS, and get the 3 free submissions.

 

Brian

[THE_BEYONDER]

If I were to own the book? CGC without a doubt. Either way, I don't wait that long. I sign up for CS, and get the 3 free submissions.

 

Brian

 

How many shill IDs do you have? Can't you only sign-up once a year?

[Murph]

Quite a few. And when it expires after a year, you can re-subscribe and get 3 more coupons..

 

Brian

[BachelorOfComix]

When do you expect to get the 2 ASMs back?

[Murph]

Still awaiting a new membership packet. Would've thought it'd be here by now.

If it's not here by Sat, then I'll probably email and ask about it. So, barring some loss of the packet, the books should be back to me first week of July!

 

Brian

[deathlok]

How would you not wait with the 3 free standard submission? The turnaround is supposedly 15 days, and the modern is 20 days.

 

So you are saying that standard subs are still on time, while moderns take up to 4 months?

[Jgel]

It took 2 1/2 weeks for my packet to get here. Things other then grading are getting slow...

[Jgel]

How would you not wait with the 3 free standard submission? The turnaround is supposedly 15 days, and the modern is 20 days.

 

So you are saying that standard subs are still on time, while moderns take up to 4 months?

 

You get 3 Free Express submissions with CGC

[deathlok]

How would you not wait with the 3 free standard submission? The turnaround is supposedly 15 days, and the modern is 20 days.

 

So you are saying that standard subs are still on time, while moderns take up to 4 months?

 

You get 3 Free Express submissions with CGC

[Jgel]

How would you not wait with the 3 free standard submission? The turnaround is supposedly 15 days, and the modern is 20 days.

 

So you are saying that standard subs are still on time, while moderns take up to 4 months?

 

You get 3 Free Express submissions with CGC

 

I figured you missed that......now it makes a lot more Cents

[deathlok]

How would you not wait with the 3 free standard submission? The turnaround is supposedly 15 days, and the modern is 20 days.

 

So you are saying that standard subs are still on time, while moderns take up to 4 months?

 

You get 3 Free Express submissions with CGC

 

I figured you missed that......now it makes a lot more Cents

 

Now I can't tell if you just playing around. Just because they are free with the CS doesn't make them turnaround the books any faster. The standards subs should be at around 2-3 months, not 15 days as stated. So even with the free subs you still have to wait, which is what I was saying to Murph's post.