CGG Books " Comic Grading Group " Initial observations

[BassGMan]

Regardless, CGC is a business, and you'd think they're breaking quite a few laws by wantonly and fraudulently stating erroneous "estimated times" for 4+ years.

 

CGC rakes in millions, and blatant misrepresentation isn't a joke, as much as you seem to think it is.

 

No, I am not joking. This is actually a very serious peeve of mine and has greatly affected my own little Ebay comic business as I do depend on slabs. But I am not slabbing nearly as many as I would like to due to this lame-azz turnaround thing. I feel as if I am losing money due to this problem as I know I am losing out on some high grade CGC slabbed premiums.

 

My guess is that they "get away with it" due to the fact that they state "estimated turnaround times" AND state "shipping books now received on.....". They could say that their goal is 20 days, 40 days and so on but they do not guarantee it. Annoying yes, but illegal or fraudulant I don't think so. I'm sure Fantasy could give us the legalities of it if he cared to. -----Sid

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

There seems to be an increasing annoyance with CGC's turnaround times. It seems that more and more people are going to CGG for some of their faster services, especially the Moderns. However, as CGG grows with popularity, wouldn't it be safe to assume that they would face some of the same problems that CGC now faces (especially turnaround times)?

 

So what I am wondering now is, even if the prices were cheaper for CGG, what if the turnaround times were the same? What if CGC were within a month of CGG's turnaround times? Basically...how fast would CGC have to speed up its service (or CGG to slow down) for you to not even care about what CGG is doing?

[BassGMan]

Chuck, I understand that theory, but we'll just have to wait and see how CGG handles the increased business, if in fact that is/does happen. ----Sid

[awe4one]

Basically...how fast would CGC have to speed up its service (or CGG to slow down) for you to not even care about what CGG is doing?

 

One week past CGC's estimated time seems rational to me. CGC gets paid pretty good money. Their service should reflect that to include turnaround times. Right now, their service does not because of the delays.....

 

Jim

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

Chuck, I understand that theory, but we'll just have to wait and see how CGG handles the increased business, if in fact that is/does happen. ----Sid

 

Sid, this is why I ask. (Keep in mind that in the following scenario, I have no idea what Daniel Patterson is actually like in person and that I have absolutely zero credibility in assuming how CGG conducts their business. This is purely hypothetical.)

 

If I were Daniel Patterson and I know that the strongest factor in keeping my company in the race with CGC is definitely the turnaround times. When it comes to reputation and offering an established product that the public trusts, CGG is simply outclassed. So I focus on my strengths: price and turnaround times. In order to have lower prices, operational costs have to be low. Corners have to be cut. Can't really hire that many people to do incoming or outgoing shipments, which is fine because our small staff can handle that easily. Can't really hire that many customer service representatives, but the small staff can handle the customers we already have.

 

At first, everything is going great and CGG is grading roughly 1000 books a day, keeping ahead of the turnaround schedule. Business is looking good and several disgruntled CGC submitting dealers defect and start sending some books my way. They like the service and decide to deal exclusively with CGG for their Modern service. Now my graders are grading approximately 1200 books a day, a 20% increase without the accuracy or quality of the grading/encapsulating being compromised...much. The dealers are loving the fast turnaround times and lower prices and they tell their other friends. Word gets out fast and now CGG is receiving shipments of 3000 books a day. Now, as the senior grader and president of the company, I am in a pickle...the one thing we pride ourselves on, is the turnaround times. So what do we do? Skip restoration checks on reputable submitters? Take less time looking for flaws on each book? Or do we do what the competition does and extend the estimated turnaround times?

 

It does seem like CGG has been getting a lot of business steadily, but there has been no announcement of adding any additional graders to the staff. I am not suggesting that CGG is doing anything dishonest, because quite frankly, this could even be CGC in this hypothetical situation. Comic book collectors can be a paranoid bunch and this thought just happened to float through my head. As a collector though, I have to be wary of what happens when I send my books off to be graded. I do not care much about turnaround times because I don't really sell slabbed books on eBay, so I just stick with what I am familiar with.

[lou_fine]

Express turn around is on-time. Last batch I sent in took exactly 5 business days. They received the books on a Sat. They were on their way out to me the next Monday.

 

Brian

 

Yet aren't the 3 free subs with CS membership Standard subs, not Express subs.

 

Can somebody explain what this Collector's Society is? Sounds like you get 3 free express submissions on an annual basis as long as you pay the $99 membership fee.

 

Sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Fast express service at a relatively cheap price. Is there a stipulation on the type of book or maximum value that you can send in as part of the 3 free submissions. I thought CGC took a cut of the perceived market value of the book up to a mximum of $1,000 as their grading fee. Or is this maximum grading fee even higher now since I heard the $1K figure a couple of years ago.

 

Would this CS be a loophole for the GA or SA collector to get their high grade pedigree books graded for "free" and avoid CGC's high end grading fees. Especially if you don't plan on slabbing more than 3 of these types of books a year. Or would CGC be sloppy in their restoration check and also be swayed to give the book a lower grade since they are no longer getting a cut of the perceived market value of the book.

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

Can somebody explain what this Collector's Society is? Sounds like you get 3 free express submissions on an annual basis as long as you pay the $99 membership fee.

 

The membership expires within a year and you have to pay another $99 to get the 3 free submissions again. I plan on joining when I find 3 books worthy of an Express submission. Here is a list of the benefits straight from the site:

 

BENEFITS

The Certified Collectors' Society is a community where beginner and advanced collectors can learn more about their favorite hobby and have access to collector services in grading, education, products and other areas. Membership is open to anyone who enjoys collecting coins, trading cards, or comic books. A yearly membership in the Collectors' Society is just $99. When you join the Collectors' Society you receive the following benefits:

 

Your Choice of Free Grading with NGC & NCS, CGC or SGC! When you join, you get coupons based on your collecting preference.

If your collecting preference is Coins you'll receive: A coupon for 5 Free EarlyBird submissions with NGC and a coupon for your choice of Free evaluation of 3 coins when 5 are submitted for conservation with NCS or 3 coins graded free under the NCS Authentication or Details certification services when 5 are submitted.

 

If your collecting preference is Comics you'll receive: A coupon for 3 Free Express submissions with CGC.

 

If your collecting preference is Cards you'll receive: A coupon for 5 Free Next Day submissions with SGC.

One year of direct submission privileges to NGC, CGC, SGC and NCS.

 

 

NGC Online Grading Status Reports 24/7.

 

 

Available Imaging of your Society grading submissions for $3 per item. Our state-of-the-art digital imaging labs will image the obverse/front of your collectible after it's been certified with an accurate full color image that is specially formatted to present on the Internet.

 

 

Free membership in the Certified Coin Registry, the world's premier registry program for the finest numismatic sets and sets in progress.

 

 

Free membership in the CGC Comic Registry, the world's premier registry program for the finest comic sets and sets in progress.

 

 

Free online access to census information.

 

 

10% Discount on NGC and CGC grading services when using the online submission form.

 

 

Priority Customer Service access by email or toll-free phone call.

 

 

Free trials to major hobby publications including price guides.

[lou_fine]

Thanks for the information. Are you sure that there is not some fine print between the lines limiting the type or value of the books for this "free" express submission?

 

Sounds like the high-end GA and SA collectors can literally save themselves thousands of dollars in grading fees each year if they select their books carefully.

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

As I understand it...when you sign up for it, they send you three coupons for free Express submissions. Express submissions, by definition, can only have a FMV of $4000...so submitting a NM+ AF 15 is out of the question.

[lou_fine]

As I understand it...when you sign up for it, they send you three coupons for free Express submissions. Express submissions, by definition, can only have a FMV of $4000...so submitting a NM+ AF 15 is out of the question.

 

Aw shucks, I knew it was too good to be true. Just when I was thinking this would be a good opportunity to gradually slab some of my GA books. Well, back to the drawing board, I guess.

 

So, exactly what kind of service do you use for books with a value greater than $4K. What is the cost for this service and what is the actual turnaround time on this particular service?

 

Thanks

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

For books with greater than $4000 FMV, you must use the Walkthrough service. The price you pay is quite hefty actually: 2.5% of FMV. So that is at least $100 right there. The minimum charge is $110 and the maximum is $1000. The good news? The turnaround time is the day that they receive it.

 

All of this information can be found on the CGC web page .

[OldGuy]

Also, I thought I read about this before, but could not find anything. Has anyone here bought a CGG cracked it and sent it into CGC to compair?

 

I sent a CGC 9.2 to CGG and it came back 8.5.

[joe_collector]

Annoying yes, but illegal or fraudulant I don't think so. I'm sure Fantasy could give us the legalities of it if he cared to. -----Sid

 

I'd like to hear them, as from what I've gleaned, you can only get away with this for so long, and the numbers have to be close and realistic. Sure, estimates don't always gel with reality, but in this case, CGC is way out there, and beyond any reasonable discrepancy.

 

If it's "20 days estimated" and "70 days actual" and CGC has come nowhere near the consistent estimated times in years, then all that would need to happen would for someone to care and launch an investigation.

 

But of course, we all know that these are "funny books", so who cares, right?

[Red Hook]

Yeah, OG, but they already have all of US on their giant sized list down at CGG headquarters. They know who we are!

[Red Hook]

I beetched on the boards last time I sent in a submission of 12 books, JC, that I paid for Standard and got essentially what was described as their Economy service. I did not get what I paid for. Simple. No one who pays for Standard is, or has for a long time.

 

I'm still sitting on dozens of books I refuse to submit until I can be assured of getting what I pay for, or get some kind of rebate.

 

I had suggested something like CGC giving anyone who sent in 6 or more books in a Standard shipment, a free coupon for one Express grading as a thank you for putting up with the horrendous wait.

 

No one ever picked up on that. No surprise.

[RS]

Chuck, I understand that theory, but we'll just have to wait and see how CGG handles the increased business, if in fact that is/does happen. ----Sid

 

Sid, this is why I ask. (Keep in mind that in the following scenario, I have no idea what Daniel Patterson is actually like in person and that I have absolutely zero credibility in assuming how CGG conducts their business. This is purely hypothetical.)

 

If I were Daniel Patterson and I know that the strongest factor in keeping my company in the race with CGC is definitely the turnaround times. When it comes to reputation and offering an established product that the public trusts, CGG is simply outclassed. So I focus on my strengths: price and turnaround times. In order to have lower prices, operational costs have to be low. Corners have to be cut. Can't really hire that many people to do incoming or outgoing shipments, which is fine because our small staff can handle that easily. Can't really hire that many customer service representatives, but the small staff can handle the customers we already have.

 

At first, everything is going great and CGG is grading roughly 1000 books a day, keeping ahead of the turnaround schedule. Business is looking good and several disgruntled CGC submitting dealers defect and start sending some books my way. They like the service and decide to deal exclusively with CGG for their Modern service. Now my graders are grading approximately 1200 books a day, a 20% increase without the accuracy or quality of the grading/encapsulating being compromised...much. The dealers are loving the fast turnaround times and lower prices and they tell their other friends. Word gets out fast and now CGG is receiving shipments of 3000 books a day. Now, as the senior grader and president of the company, I am in a pickle...the one thing we pride ourselves on, is the turnaround times. So what do we do? Skip restoration checks on reputable submitters? Take less time looking for flaws on each book? Or do we do what the competition does and extend the estimated turnaround times?

 

It does seem like CGG has been getting a lot of business steadily, but there has been no announcement of adding any additional graders to the staff. I am not suggesting that CGG is doing anything dishonest, because quite frankly, this could even be CGC in this hypothetical situation. Comic book collectors can be a paranoid bunch and this thought just happened to float through my head. As a collector though, I have to be wary of what happens when I send my books off to be graded. I do not care much about turnaround times because I don't really sell slabbed books on eBay, so I just stick with what I am familiar with.

 

I think CGG has gotten busy now that they have the hard case and turn around times have not changed If the would get even more books they would work on Saturdays to get the book out on time.

 

This is from CGG web site ~~~ -Return Time is defined as the time we receive the books to when we ship them out. We guarantee our posted return times to within 4 business days. Often books are returned sooner than posted return times. If we keep your books more than 4 business days over the posted return times, we will provide you with compensation.

 

Customer service is very big thing, you must keep the customer happy. The way I see it Only the big dealers and EBay sellers are happy with CGC ( Turn around times have not changed for them Just look Superman/Batman 10 May 19 04 Ebay Superman/Batman 10 cgc ) and 3 months for very one else

[Red Hook]

I like that part.....If we keep your books more than 4 business days over the posted return times, we will provide you with compensation.

 

Like a coupon for a free express grading?

[wormboy]

The sad part is, most of us like the CGC product, and would rather use CGC, but the turnaround times are just ridiculous.

[jimm94]

I posted this a few pages ago, but I think it got lost at the bottom of a page before things really got cooking in this thread. Either no one saw it, or no one cares...

 

What do you guys think? It doesn't fix the problem, but it makes lower tier submissions a little less painful.

 

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Regarding CGC's slow turnarounds, I think it would be interesting if you could choose to schedule an appointment in advance for your book to be graded within a certain timeframe.

 

i.e. - If Standards are taking about 40 days instead of the intended 15, I could make an appointment to send in my comic about a month from now, and would be guaranteed to have it back within that 15 day timeframe (minus shipping time of course).

 

Same deal with Economy. If it's taking 4 months instead of 40 days, let me schedule a grading 3 months from now.

 

If you choose the appointment guarantee and CGC doesn't deliver the goods, then they would have to discount the service. I'd be willing to pay an extra buck or two for the guaranteed turnaround. Kinda like Domino's old "pizza in 30 minutes or your money back" guarantee.

 

Granted, this idea doesn't really help people who are slabbing to sell except it keeps the books in their posession in case they decide to just sell raw. But if I'm slabbing a keeper for my collection, then accepting submissions in this way allows me to enjoy my comic until CGC can grade it within the advertised level of service for the tier. Obviously, the smart azz response to all this is "Use Express or Walkthrough if you're in a hurry.", but this idea doesn't break the higher profit business model of those tiers.

 

Unfortunately, CGC would probably never go for it because people might change their minds or not ship in time for their "appointment", resulting in a loss of business. Of course, they could slightly over book like airlines do, and assume that some customers are going to flake. That would be a risky gamble, though.

 

Regardless, turnaround times that are 3-4 times longer than advertised are simply unacceptable. This is the meanest thing I have ever said about CGC, but it's true.

 

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[olgreenskin64-migration]

I waited over four months to receive my CGC graded books and after they finally returned one had a hair inside the case on the back cover!

Also what's up with some of the books that look like they don't lay flat inside the case? I know the book was totally flat when I sent it.