tdcomixncardz and CGG

[RS]

Is that not fraud to doctor a item and sell it on ebay?

 

He is also keyword spamming by putting CGC in the title.

 

 

• [*]DONALD DUCK's ATOM BOMB CGG / CGC NM 9.4 CHEERIOS [*]GIANT-SIZE SPIDER-MAN # 6 CGG / CGC 9.8 ONLY COPY HGC! [*]MAGNUS ROBOT FIGHTER # 2 CGG / CGC 9.8 HIGHEST GRADED [*]SWAMP THING # 7 CGG / CGC NM/M 9.8 WHITE PAGES! [*]SWAMP THING # 8 CGG / CGC NM+ 9.6 WHITE PAGES! [*]GIANT-SIZE SPIDER-MAN # 6 CGG / CGC 9.8 ONLY COPY HGC! [*]MAGNUS ROBOT FIGHTER # 1 9.8 HIGHEST GRADED COPY!!

[FFB]

no kinds of PVC are safe for long-term storage

 

How long is long term 25 year 50 years?

 

 

The micro paper should be changed after 7 year. New case every 7 years so what the danger?

 

The microchamber paper will not cause the book to deteriorate if not changed. It just loses effectiveness after 7 years.

[Timely]

Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

I am not intentionally trying to be known as a CGG advocate, and I realize that CGC is the recognized authority, as they should be, but I also recognize that the amount of books CGC does per day would seemingly not allow them to spend more than 20-30 seconds per book, where I would guess CGG could spend as much time with a book as they wanted.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

NOT true! I spend an average of 4 minutes per book, and I'm only a pregrader at the moment!

 

West

 

Thanks for the response! I would like to ask another question though. Does the pre-grader spend the majority of the time with a book, and are their more than two pre-graders? My understanding is their are two separate grading teams consistings of three people per team. If this is incorrect, my mistake.

 

If each team spent an average of 4 minutes per book, each team could grade an average of 15 books per hour. If each team graded books for eight hours a day(which I would not recommend to anyone that wants to mantain consistency, aside from CGC of course , just a small innocent jab there , that would add up to 120 books per team, with a total of 240 per day.

 

Yet Steve recently stated in another thread that if CGC only graded 200 books a day they would never make a mistake. The way it read was that only grading 200 books a day was like a joke and that CGC graded many more books a day than that.

 

What am I missing? I am throwing out at anyone is allowed to grade more than eight hours a day, as I think that would be irresponsible.

 

Are there more than two teams of graders or 3 or more pregraders that are able to allow the other higher up graders that be able to only spent a short time with each book?

 

Thank you for your time, and your response!

 

There have been many recent hires, including me...and things are changing quite a bit in the grading room.

 

In response to grading books, obviously some books are much easier to grade than others! Grading moderns that just came out last month can be done super quick, but a Superman #1 from 1939 will take much longer, even up to 15-20 minutes if that's what it takes. I do not know the raw numbers of books we grade every day, but I do know we get a lot done!

 

West

[Michael JC-migration]

Thanks for the response!

[Arty]

original scan of DD book.

 

[fantastic_four]

Go back and read the email where she says that no kinds of PVC are safe for long-term storage. Then also read the LOC's recommendations for paper storage with PET (mylar or equivalent) and an alkaline reserve.

 

Here's the email you mean, I assume:

 

We do not recommend the use of PVC plastics for the storage of comic books or any other historic paper based material. Plastic enclosures are preferred for frequently used collections because they protect them from fingerprints and provide physical support. Plastic enclosures should be made from plastics such as polyester, polyethylene, polypropylene, spun-bonded polyolefins, or polystyrene. These plastics are recommended by ISO standards because they are typically inert, unplasticized, and have good chemical stability. Since many paper materials can adhere to smooth surfaces at high humidities, use of plastic of any type should be avoided if prolonged storage at relative humidities above 80% is likely. Avoid all plastics that have fillers, coatings, or UV absorbers. Avoid the use of polyester, polyethylene, and polypropylene that has a hazy film on the surface, which indicates that the plastic film is coated or is heavily plasticized. Avoid using adhesives or fasteners that may cause chemical or physical damage, such as rubber cement, pressure-sensitive tape, paper clips, or rubber bands.

 

The LoC is making no claims here to have tested every type of PVC on the market, and there are MANY different types. MW1 made an EXTREMELY convincing argument in the thread I linked to above that we just can't tell how archival CGG's case is. You can't make the blanket statement that all PVC is non-archival, although it's definitely accurate to state that many types of PVC aren't proven to be archival. Not proven to be archival and non-archival aren't the same thing.

 

Also, LoC research and recommendations specifically show that comics in open-topped mylars aren't much better off than comics in a totally enclosed case. Here's the old thread where this was discussed in depth:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=comicgen&Number=294618

[fantastic_four]

TD's comics were submitted after mine in April....4/04 for those reading the label...

 

This scan manipulation BS by TD is just despicable.

[DiceX]

TD's comics were submitted after mine in April....4/04 for those reading the label...

 

This scan manipulation BS by TD is just despicable.

 

It's an "isolated incident".

[FFB]

Go back and read the email where she says that no kinds of PVC are safe for long-term storage. Then also read the LOC's recommendations for paper storage with PET (mylar or equivalent) and an alkaline reserve.

 

Here's the email you mean, I assume:

 

We do not recommend the use of PVC plastics for the storage of comic books or any other historic paper based material. Plastic enclosures are preferred for frequently used collections because they protect them from fingerprints and provide physical support. Plastic enclosures should be made from plastics such as polyester, polyethylene, polypropylene, spun-bonded polyolefins, or polystyrene. These plastics are recommended by ISO standards because they are typically inert, unplasticized, and have good chemical stability. Since many paper materials can adhere to smooth surfaces at high humidities, use of plastic of any type should be avoided if prolonged storage at relative humidities above 80% is likely. Avoid all plastics that have fillers, coatings, or UV absorbers. Avoid the use of polyester, polyethylene, and polypropylene that has a hazy film on the surface, which indicates that the plastic film is coated or is heavily plasticized. Avoid using adhesives or fasteners that may cause chemical or physical damage, such as rubber cement, pressure-sensitive tape, paper clips, or rubber bands.

 

The LoC is making no claims here to have tested every type of PVC on the market, and there are MANY different types. MW1 made an EXTREMELY convincing argument in the thread I linked to above that we just can't tell how archival CGG's case is. You can't make the blanket statement that all PVC is non-archival, although it's definitely accurate to state that many types of PVC aren't proven to be archival. Not proven to be archival and non-archival aren't the same thing.

 

Also, LoC research and recommendations specifically show that comics in open-topped mylars aren't much better off than comics in a totally enclosed case. Here's the old thread where this was discussed in depth:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=comicgen&Number=294618

 

1) No that isn't the email I mean. Read further into the thread where there is a follow-up email from the same conservationist saying that there is no kind of PVC that is safe for long-term storage.

 

2) It isn't the "sealing" aspect of mylar that I'm talking about. It's the 3% calcium carbonate buffer that I am talking about when I say that mylar plus fullback is better than the CGC or CGG slabs.

[greggy]

TD's comics were submitted after mine in April....4/04 for those reading the label...

 

This scan manipulation BS by TD is just despicable.

 

It's an "isolated incident".

Just like his 2 Swamp Thing auctions being ended early!

[RS]

TD's comics were submitted after mine in April....4/04 for those reading the label...

 

This scan manipulation BS by TD is just despicable.

 

It's an "isolated incident".

Just like his 2 Swamp Thing auctions being ended early!

 

so was SHADOW #1 CGG / CGC NM+ 9.6 WHITE PAGES! web page

[fantastic_four]

It isn't the "sealing" aspect of mylar that I'm talking about. It's the 3% calcium carbonate buffer that I am talking about when I say that mylar plus fullback is better than the CGC or CGG slabs.

 

Why is the board better than the microchamber paper?

[fantastic_four]

there is a follow-up email from the same conservationist saying that there is no kind of PVC that is safe for long-term storage.

 

Most useful, thanks!

[Rip]

[qualitycomix]

Here's a CGG story that I'd like to relate:

 

I had an early Showcase issue which I submitted to CGG early this year. I suspected restoration, but I wasn't sure. I called CGG and spoke with Daniel at length about the possibilities and asked to please triple check the book to make sure there was no resto. The final call from CGG after it had been graded was that it could not be determined whether restoration was present or not. So they gave the book a Universal grade. I still didn't feel that the book was unrestored.

 

I also didn't want to sell a book to a customer and have them crack it out and determine later on that it had been restored. So I submitted the book to CGC. Sure enough, it came back with a purple label. I called Daniel back and informed him of the problem. He said that CGG will change their policies so that if any restoration is suspected in the future that they won't encapsulate the book.

 

To me, it still doesn't really solve the problem, as the perception is that CGG can't detect restoration on a consistent basis. When you're a new company you have to be that much better than the competition, and thus far, CGG has failed to live up to that, by a long shot.

 

I'm passing along this info because I want forum members to be informed and not get burned. That's the point of these threads, right?

[Rip]

Here is what Daniel said at the CPG boards.............

 

Hello to everyone, my name is Daniel Patterson and I am the head grader at CGGroup.

 

We are accepting orders from this person again. After our investigation we had no proof he had done anything wrong, and have never had problems with any of his books when they came through our offices. One book that had been said to have color touch we retrieved and could find no color touch on the book. To further help avoid any possibility of book switching, or any other possible fraud, we have implemented new security features which make any duplication of the inner holder or label next to impossible, and making it very difficult for anyone to possibly switch out one book for another.

 

And to clarify on other things I have read, nobody's books get graded quickly or the restoration check ignored, or are given special grades or treatment. We treat all our customers the same, with respect and good customer service. While this may never satisfy some people we will continue do so.

 

Thank you, and I hope to post on more positive things in the future.

Daniel Patterson

 

 

WTF!!!

[fantastic_four]

Sure enough, it came back with a purple label.

 

Got a scan you can post of the book in both a CGG and CGC slab? I'm particularly interested in what type of restoration CGC found, but the scans would be more perpetually useful as more concrete evidence than hearsay, as in "qualitycomix said..."

[fantastic_four]

Somebody do a follow-up and ask Daniel if their restoration guy is in the same family as TD.

[FFB]

Go back and read the email where she says that no kinds of PVC are safe for long-term storage. Then also read the LOC's recommendations for paper storage with PET (mylar or equivalent) and an alkaline reserve.

 

Here's the email you mean, I assume:

 

We do not recommend the use of PVC plastics for the storage of comic books or any other historic paper based material. Plastic enclosures are preferred for frequently used collections because they protect them from fingerprints and provide physical support. Plastic enclosures should be made from plastics such as polyester, polyethylene, polypropylene, spun-bonded polyolefins, or polystyrene. These plastics are recommended by ISO standards because they are typically inert, unplasticized, and have good chemical stability. Since many paper materials can adhere to smooth surfaces at high humidities, use of plastic of any type should be avoided if prolonged storage at relative humidities above 80% is likely. Avoid all plastics that have fillers, coatings, or UV absorbers. Avoid the use of polyester, polyethylene, and polypropylene that has a hazy film on the surface, which indicates that the plastic film is coated or is heavily plasticized. Avoid using adhesives or fasteners that may cause chemical or physical damage, such as rubber cement, pressure-sensitive tape, paper clips, or rubber bands.

 

The LoC is making no claims here to have tested every type of PVC on the market, and there are MANY different types. MW1 made an EXTREMELY convincing argument in the thread I linked to above that we just can't tell how archival CGG's case is. You can't make the blanket statement that all PVC is non-archival, although it's definitely accurate to state that many types of PVC aren't proven to be archival. Not proven to be archival and non-archival aren't the same thing.

 

Also, LoC research and recommendations specifically show that comics in open-topped mylars aren't much better off than comics in a totally enclosed case. Here's the old thread where this was discussed in depth:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=comicgen&Number=294618

 

That long email you got from the LoC (posted in the thread you linked to above) is great. In there they confirm that mylar with buffered back board is a better storage environment than sealed in a slab.

[FFB]

It isn't the "sealing" aspect of mylar that I'm talking about. It's the 3% calcium carbonate buffer that I am talking about when I say that mylar plus fullback is better than the CGC or CGG slabs.

 

Why is the board better than the microchamber paper?

 

Microchamber paper absorbs gasses and loses effectiveness. Does not have an alkaline reserve like the boards do.