Coin market has stickers now, does Comics have it too?

[Bronty]

I think the star designation would be fantastic IF you could open up the interior... without that its meaningless really.

 

What do you do with a book that looks 9.4 but has a big oil stain inside that creeps from page 3 to page 17 resulting in a 4.0 grade?

 

It may look deserving of a star from outside the slab but its really not. And you can't crack the slab to verify such issues without voiding the grades and presumably the star itself.

[mkman123]

good points bronty. Comics have a lot more issues to address vs coins

[fc]

Hi mkman123. I know you from other forums.

 

People here seem to be forgetting that CAC's main purpose in stickering coins is to make a market

in them. They have outstanding bids for the material they sticker and will gladly buy it back. Including

their mistakes. So when they sticker something they are essentially saying it is the type of coin

they would be very pleased to get back and sell again. It is the material they like.

 

Collectors on the other hand like it as a third opinion but in reality CAC has a different motive that

works for them.

[mkman123]

Hi FC! Yep I do know you from other forums!! You know what you are correct in that CAC is making a market for their own coins!

[PovertyRow]

good points bronty. Comics have a lot more issues to address vs coins

 

Now I know people don;t read my posts.

 

A CAC type service has not, to my knowledge, been used in comics. But for good reasons. First, comics are more complex than a coin.

 

A coin has essentially three sides: obverse, reverse and edge.

 

A comic has 32, 48, 52, 64 etc "sides" depending on the page count. The inability to see all the sides, as with a coin (or at least the obverse/reverse), would preclude any judging of the interior. Thus a CAC type sticker would only be a reflection of the outside front/back covers.

 

Notice me!

[mintcollector]

good points bronty. Comics have a lot more issues to address vs coins

 

Pardon this post, but I just woke up.

 

You guys are aware that when you 'sticker' a coin through CAC you get no detailed explanation as to why it was; or why it was not 'stickered.'

 

There are two 'levels'; a 'green sticker' which indicates it is solid for the grade; and a 'gold sticker' which means it is a premium piece. Unfortunately, collectors usually pay a premium for both stickers, but it is only the 'gold' sticker that means you have a possible upgrade candidate.

 

This has caused a lot of confusion in the market; and can lead to buyers being confused and misinformed. While I am a supporter of CAC, I also ask a lot of questions on the coin forums and do my own research. I do not see any firm or organization ever being able to do this and gain wide acceptance within the comic collecting hobby for one reason: PRESSING!

 

You are going to have collectors who are 'obsessed' for lack of a better word; asking this new firm if the comic was possibly pressed. Since there is no way to confirm 100% and since much like CAC; this fiirm would either 'sticker' the comic in question or deny it with possibly no explanation; collectors may not accept this new service.

 

Another thing to consider is I don't want someone to assume just by looking through a 'slab' whether or not my comic book may have been pressed or not. As someone I believe, said before me; you can see the WHOLE coin through the slab. A comic book, to benefit from this service; would need to be 'cracked' out; thus making the service virtually worthless to those who collect CGC graded comic books.

 

Coin collecting is MUCH different. One of the things that always 'amazes' me as a curreny collector is when some comic book collector (usually a 'newbie') wanders over to a currency collecting forum and asks 'how come if they can tell if paper money is pressed; they can't tell if a comic book is pressed?' Then a cross collector like myself has to explain to them that paper money is embossed and made of a linen like paper; with raised inks. Any attempt to 'press' it and it is very detectable. This is why we have the EPQ or PPQ designations on paper money 'slabs.' It confirms the note is original.

 

In conclusion, I never meant to make this thread about 'pressing,' as I do not care one way or another. I just know that someone is eventually going to ask the question and if someone does not understand how the CAC process works; they may be mislead as to how this is supposed to help the hobby. A lot of ideas start out as good intentions and probable on paper. That being said, ask anyone like myself; and they will tell you that unfortunately a lot of those ideas don't translate well once executed. I do not see this working with a three dimensional 'slabbed' comic book already graded; nor do I see it being 'adpoted' by the hobby as a whole.

 

Respectfully,

 

'mint'

[Underground44]

So they grade an already graded coin? Who's going to start grading CAC graded stuff? Amazing

 

+1

 

If grading is subjective isn't the CAC sticker also subjective. I mean, where does it end?

[Timely]

If you send CAC a MS64 coin and they give it a sticker, they are not saying it "is better" than a typical MS64, they are saying it "appears better" than a typical MS64, and that is the difference.

 

With many of the coins already in holders, you cannot see the edge of the coin. Sometimes the entire lip of the coin is not visible when holdered (especially those older holders) and that is were much of the damage can occur, on the edge, yet CAC still gives their opinion based on what they can see. CAC stickers those coins with superior luster, coins that have a good look to them or coins with less visible damage.

 

Those same principles can be adopted for comics. You apply those techniques based on what you can see. Books with bold striking colors and full cover gloss should be rewarded over those books that have dull faded colors and no gloss. If your typical Iron Man #1 CGC 9.4 has 6 spine stresses and you find one with only 3, perhaps that copy would be worthy of a sticker too, as it appears better than most other 9.4 copies.

 

It is true that the interior of the comic is not visible in a slab, but the most important part is, the cover. Most collectors do not care if there is a 1/4" tear on the 7th page or a name written on the top of the 1st page. Most collectors who are that worried about interior defects probably do not buy CGC books to begin with, or they buy a CGC book & crack them out anyway.

 

I am not saying CAC for comics would be a 100% perfect system, but I think it is a step in the right direction, as it was with coins. A stickered CGC book means the book appears better than most other copies of the same technical grade. This gives the buyer more information to go on, and more information can never be a bad thing!

[Dr. Balls]

Oh yeah, that's what I want to do. Pay for CGC to grade my book, and then pay some other company to slap a sticker on it that says "Yep, it's been graded and it looks good!"

[PovertyRow]

If you send CAC a MS64 coin and they give it a sticker, they are not saying it "is better" than a typical MS64, they are saying it "appears better" than a typical MS64, and that is the difference.

 

With many of the coins already in holders, you cannot see the edge of the coin. Sometimes the entire lip of the coin is not visible when holdered (especially those older holders) and that is were much of the damage can occur, on the edge, yet CAC still gives their opinion based on what they can see. CAC stickers those coins with superior luster, coins that have a good look to them or coins with less visible damage.

 

Those same principles can be adopted for comics. You apply those techniques based on what you can see. Books with bold striking colors and full cover gloss should be rewarded over those books that have dull faded colors and no gloss. If your typical Iron Man #1 CGC 9.4 has 6 spine stresses and you find one with only 3, perhaps that copy would be worthy of a sticker too, as it appears better than most other 9.4 copies.

 

It is true that the interior of the comic is not visible in a slab, but the most important part is, the cover. Most collectors do not care if there is a 1/4" tear on the 7th page or a name written on the top of the 1st page. Most collectors who are that worried about interior defects probably do not buy CGC books to begin with, or they buy a CGC book & crack them out anyway.

 

I am not saying CAC for comics would be a 100% perfect system, but I think it is a step in the right direction, as it was with coins. A stickered CGC book means the book appears better than most other copies of the same technical grade. This gives the buyer more information to go on, and more information can never be a bad thing!

 

Timely, do you have any thoughts on my previous post about the use of tape and the potential for the Action #1 to have had a separated cover?

 

How do you see PQ coming into play? Take two CAC-able books, by your criteria, in the same grade. Both exhibiting similar superior f/b cover characteristics for the grade. But one has white pages and one has tan pages. Do you see both of them qualifying for a sticker?

[Bronty]

more information can never be a bad thing!

 

yeah more correct information is never a bad thing.... but are we going to get reasonably correct info or is it going to be halfazzed guesses from grading a book from inside its slab?

 

I dunno. I see your pov but to me it just doesn't work great for comics. There may be a few issues with it for coins but I think there are a lot of issues for comics.

 

On the other hand if cgc granted star designations during the grading process while they had the book open, I could see really getting into that.

 

[Timely]

If you send CAC a MS64 coin and they give it a sticker, they are not saying it "is better" than a typical MS64, they are saying it "appears better" than a typical MS64, and that is the difference.

 

With many of the coins already in holders, you cannot see the edge of the coin. Sometimes the entire lip of the coin is not visible when holdered (especially those older holders) and that is were much of the damage can occur, on the edge, yet CAC still gives their opinion based on what they can see. CAC stickers those coins with superior luster, coins that have a good look to them or coins with less visible damage.

 

Those same principles can be adopted for comics. You apply those techniques based on what you can see. Books with bold striking colors and full cover gloss should be rewarded over those books that have dull faded colors and no gloss. If your typical Iron Man #1 CGC 9.4 has 6 spine stresses and you find one with only 3, perhaps that copy would be worthy of a sticker too, as it appears better than most other 9.4 copies.

 

It is true that the interior of the comic is not visible in a slab, but the most important part is, the cover. Most collectors do not care if there is a 1/4" tear on the 7th page or a name written on the top of the 1st page. Most collectors who are that worried about interior defects probably do not buy CGC books to begin with, or they buy a CGC book & crack them out anyway.

 

I am not saying CAC for comics would be a 100% perfect system, but I think it is a step in the right direction, as it was with coins. A stickered CGC book means the book appears better than most other copies of the same technical grade. This gives the buyer more information to go on, and more information can never be a bad thing!

 

Timely, do you have any thoughts on my previous post about the use of tape and the potential for the Action #1 to have had a separated cover?

 

How do you see PQ coming into play? Take two CAC-able books, by your criteria, in the same grade. Both exhibiting similar superior f/b cover characteristics for the grade. But one has white pages and one has tan pages. Do you see both of them qualifying for a sticker?

 

The page quality definitely should come into play. A book with less than Cream pages should never receive a sticker, as it's life as a comic book is much further along.

 

As far as the Action #1 goes, all the information is already on the label. Tape & tape stains are always noted on a CGC label when found, so a CAC service would not have to worry about that.

[PovertyRow]

 

The page quality definitely should come into play. A book with less than Cream pages should never receive a sticker, as it's life as a comic book is much further along.

 

As far as the Action #1 goes, all the information is already on the label. Tape & tape stains are always noted on a CGC label when found, so a CAC service would not have to worry about that.

 

Something that seems weird using a pure f/b cover criteria is that the many books currently in Qualified Green labels would, if the submitter elected to have CGC downgrade them and put them in Universal Blue, be easy candidates for the sticker.

 

At least to me, a book with any designation of superiority must take into consideration the entirety of the book.

 

As far as "it's life as a comic book is much further along" could also be argued with the Action 1 if, as I suspect, cellophane tape was used in the spine reassembly.

 

 

[mintcollector]

Here is the website address,

 

www.caccoin.com

 

Check it out, as this will answer most of your questions. You can also see how different the coin and comic book markets truly are. This would not be accepted in this industry, in my opinion. Keep in mind, the coin collecting fields also have several high profile grading companies (both NGC and PCGS come to mind). There is only one preferred grading company in comic books.

 

Kind Regards,

 

'mint'

 

 

[PovertyRow]

Here is the website address,

 

www.caccoin.com

 

Check it out, as this will answer most of your questions. You can also see how different the coin and comic book markets truly are. This would not be accepted in this industry, in my opinion. Keep in mind, the coin collecting fields also have several high profile grading companies (both NGC and PCGS come to mind). There is only one preferred grading company in comic books.

 

Kind Regards,

 

'mint'

 

 

It is a good link for those not aware of CAC.

 

I was not overly keen about it when CAC was first announced on the boards and expressed my misgivings. Even applied to a coin based service I have/had misgivings.

[Timely]

Here is the website address,

 

www.caccoin.com

 

Check it out, as this will answer most of your questions. You can also see how different the coin and comic book markets truly are. This would not be accepted in this industry, in my opinion. Keep in mind, the coin collecting fields also have several high profile grading companies (both NGC and PCGS come to mind). There is only one preferred grading company in comic books.

 

Kind Regards,

 

'mint'

 

 

It is a good link for those not aware of CAC.

 

I was not overly keen about it when CAC was first announced on the boards and expressed my misgivings. Even applied to a coin based service I have/had misgivings.

 

Keep in mind, 12 years ago there were a lot of collectors like yourself who had misgivings about a grading service for comics, yet here we are.

[PovertyRow]

Here is the website address,

 

www.caccoin.com

 

Check it out, as this will answer most of your questions. You can also see how different the coin and comic book markets truly are. This would not be accepted in this industry, in my opinion. Keep in mind, the coin collecting fields also have several high profile grading companies (both NGC and PCGS come to mind). There is only one preferred grading company in comic books.

 

Kind Regards,

 

'mint'

 

 

It is a good link for those not aware of CAC.

 

I was not overly keen about it when CAC was first announced on the boards and expressed my misgivings. Even applied to a coin based service I have/had misgivings.

 

Keep in mind, 12 years ago there were a lot of collectors like yourself who had misgivings about a grading service for comics, yet here we are.

 

I first met Steve Borock at the Boston show when he was going around collecting initial submissions from dealers for a CGC test run. We hit it off immediately (after a most amusing incident with me at a dealer) and he explained to me what this "CGC" was all about. My first thought was it would be used as an interim service to help insure the grade and restoration was accurate. I never imagined the idea of collectors just keeping the book in the slab. I still struggle with the idea, to be honest. And yes, that is me.

 

But I still maintain the presence of a cover only appearance sticker for a comic would let too many unknown factors slip in.

 

[mintcollector]

Here is the website address,

 

www.caccoin.com

 

Check it out, as this will answer most of your questions. You can also see how different the coin and comic book markets truly are. This would not be accepted in this industry, in my opinion. Keep in mind, the coin collecting fields also have several high profile grading companies (both NGC and PCGS come to mind). There is only one preferred grading company in comic books.

 

Kind Regards,

 

'mint'

 

 

It is a good link for those not aware of CAC.

 

I was not overly keen about it when CAC was first announced on the boards and expressed my misgivings. Even applied to a coin based service I have/had misgivings.

 

Keep in mind, 12 years ago there were a lot of collectors like yourself who had misgivings about a grading service for comics, yet here we are.

 

I first met Steve Borock at the Boston show when he was going around collecting initial submissions from dealers for a CGC test run. We hit it off immediately (after a most amusing incident with me at a dealer) and he explained to me what this "CGC" was all about. My first thought was it would be used as an interim service to help insure the grade and restoration was accurate. I never imagined the idea of collectors just keeping the book in the slab. I still struggle with the idea, to be honest. And yes, that is me.

 

But I still maintain the presence of a cover only appearance sticker for a comic would let too many unknown factors slip in.

 

+1

[thirdgreenham]

So, what do the collectors do when repro CAC stickers start showing up?

[Aces]

Here is the website address,

 

www.caccoin.com

 

Check it out, as this will answer most of your questions. You can also see how different the coin and comic book markets truly are. This would not be accepted in this industry, in my opinion. Keep in mind, the coin collecting fields also have several high profile grading companies (both NGC and PCGS come to mind). There is only one preferred grading company in comic books.

 

Kind Regards,

 

'mint'

 

 

It is a good link for those not aware of CAC.

 

I was not overly keen about it when CAC was first announced on the boards and expressed my misgivings. Even applied to a coin based service I have/had misgivings.

 

Keep in mind, 12 years ago there were a lot of collectors like yourself who had misgivings about a grading service for comics, yet here we are.

Your name isn't in green anymore?

You no longer are a grader for CGC?