Have counterfeit books ever been made?

[Fan4Fan]

Seeing all of the high prices on 9.0+ Golden Age and Silver Age books with white to off-white pages got me to thinking whether there is any danger of counterfeit books being made.

 

While detecting restoration is one thing, would it be possible to detect a new book? At least by current means?

 

I realize there can be ink analysis, metallurgy on the staples, paper content/age etc. These are - however - destructive methods.

 

Thoughts?

 

Thanks,

Fan4Fan

[goldust40]

Replicating G.A. and S.A. comics has come up in conversation occasionally with non - comic fans who feel it would be simple.

 

I don't know about modern comics, but making an accurate counterfeit of a G.A. or S.A. book would be extremely difficult as it would mean not only aping the original (antideluvian) production process, but also finding the correct raw materials (cheap pulp, print gloss, colors, inks, etc.) as they were mass produced in that era. Also, producing comics in that halcyon time was a haphazard and inexact matter - no two comics that came off the press were absolutely identical.

 

And then of course there's the aging process, the smell, the feel of the paper, etc. It would be virtually impossible to duplicate all these factors today, even with the technology to artificially age paper.

 

Nevertheless, I'm no expert, and if there were any counterfeit pre-1970 books extant that had remained unnoticed, then your answer would be yes. But I doubt it. Maybe in 10 to 15 years, if they're being produced now.....

[Murph]

Counterfeit "platinum" books were made in the 90's, but I haven't ever seen counterfeit S.A. or G.A. books

 

Brian

[goldust40]

Counterfeit "platinum" books were made in the 90's, but I haven't ever seen counterfeit S.A. or G.A. books

 

Brian

 

So people were aware of these pre - G.A. phony copies. Any idea how accurate they were, and which books?

[Murph]

No, no.. not platinum AGE, but those platinum books that they made in the 90's. I think there were a couple "major event" DC books that had counterfeit "platinum" editions created.

 

Brian

[deathlok]

As golddust reasoned, it would be near impossible to counterfeit a comic book from the GA, SA or even BA. It would be much easier to tamper with a slab and exchange the comic inside, and also counterfeit the label.

 

Of course there is always Hammer's books, which could be considered counterfeit.

[Paul_Maul]

Of course, the two most famous counterfeit cases were Cerebus 1 and Eerie 1. I guess black and white books are easier to fake.

[TomG]

Don't forget Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #1. There are also fake versions of Venom: Lethal Protector #1 Black Cover.

[goldust40]

No, no.. not platinum AGE, but those platinum books that they made in the 90's. I think there were a couple "major event" DC books that had counterfeit "platinum" editions created.

 

Brian

 

I should've thought logically about why pre- G.A. books were being counterfeited and not G.A. and S.A.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Wouldn't the Eastern File copies of early Marvels peddled by Fantazia (i.e., Hammer) count as counterfeit? Technically they are married books, but since they were offered as original, untouched file copies, they would count as counterfeit in my book.

[FFB]

Wouldn't the Eastern File copies of early Marvels peddled by Fantazia (i.e., Hammer) count as counterfeit? Technically they are married books, but since they were offered as original, untouched file copies, they would count as counterfeit in my book.

 

I don't know that I'd agree with that. Didn't the Eastern File Copies use real covers and real interiors? I think that the counterfeiting question is more about creating the entire book from scratch today. I agree that for GA/SA/BA, it would be extremely difficult to do and very easy to detect.

[Fan4Fan]

I think that the counterfeiting question is more about creating the entire book from scratch today. I agree that for GA/SA/BA, it would be extremely difficult to do and very easy to detect.

 

That's what I had in mind... thinking along the lines that partial restoration would be easier to detect than wholesale replacement.

 

Thanks,

Fan4Fan

[Ian_Levine]

And then of course there's the aging process, the smell, the feel of the paper, etc. It would be virtually impossible to duplicate all these factors today, even with the technology to artificially age paper.

 

Utter nonsense.

I have two copies of Detective 27.

One is a complete restored VF, restored to utter perfection by Matt Nelson.

The second is a coverless copy on which Matt has rebuilt a facsimile cover.

Right now, the two are sitting side by side on my dining room table.

It is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to tell them apart.

The one with the facsimile rebuilt cover both looks and feels like a real cover.

The type of paper feels like a real Golden Age cover.

If you simultaneously feel both covers, one in each hand, it is virtually impossible to tell them apart.

Although the facsimile cover is copied off the real one, there is no discernable difference in sharpness at all. Or colour, apart from a fractionally different hue of the red, and I really mean miniscule.

I never ever EVER thought it was possible to rebuild a Golden Age cover THIS accurately.

I guarantee it would fool most of you. Maybe not all, but most.

It would fool me, and I have over thirty thousand DCs.

 

The man is a genius - a GENIUS.

[FFB]

And then of course there's the aging process, the smell, the feel of the paper, etc. It would be virtually impossible to duplicate all these factors today, even with the technology to artificially age paper.

 

Utter nonsense.

I have two copies of Detective 27.

One is a complete restored VF, restored to utter perfection by Matt Nelson.

The second is a coverless copy on which Matt has rebuilt a facsimile cover.

Right now, the two are sitting side by side on my dining room table.

It is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to tell them apart.

The one with the facsimile rebuilt cover both looks and feels like a real cover.

The type of paper feels like a real Golden Age cover.

If you simultaneously feel both covers, one in each hand, it is virtually impossible to tell them apart.

Although the facsimile cover is copied off the real one, there is no discernable difference in sharpness at all. Or colour, apart from a fractionally different hue of the red, and I really mean miniscule.

I never ever EVER thought it was possible to rebuild a Golden Age cover THIS accurately.

I guarantee it would fool most of you. Maybe not all, but most.

It would fool me, and I have over thirty thousand DCs.

 

The man is a genius - a GENIUS.

 

I don't believe a word of this until you mail them both to me so that I can check them out for myself.

[Ian_Levine]

I don't believe a word of this until you mail them both to me so that I can check them out for myself.

 

In your dreams......

 

But if anyone wants to come round and look at them both together, before Paul Sassienie sells off the one with the rebuilt cover (he's got a buyer waiting for it), then you're most welcome

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Although the facsimile cover is copied off the real one, there is no discernable difference in sharpness at all. Or colour, apart from a fractionally different hue of the red, and I really mean miniscule.

 

Admittingly, this would be an interesting thread, where similar high-res scans of both books could be compared to one another. Any chance of you indulging us?

[Ian_Levine]

Admittingly, this would be an interesting thread, where similar high-res scans of both books could be compared to one another. Any chance of you indulging us?

 

I've got a scan here of the proper complete one, but it's 1 MB. I do have the before and after restoration, but don't have a scan of the facsimile cover. But it looks so like the other copy you couldn't tell the difference from a scan anyway.

 

If anyone wants the before and after pics though, I can mail them to you, but these boards won't accept them the size they are.

[FFB]

Admittingly, this would be an interesting thread, where similar high-res scans of both books could be compared to one another. Any chance of you indulging us?

 

I've got a scan here of the proper complete one, but it's 1 MB. I do have the before and after restoration, but don't have a scan of the facsimile cover. But it looks so like the other copy you couldn't tell the difference from a scan anyway.

 

If anyone wants the before and after pics though, I can mail them to you, but these boards won't accept them the size they are.

 

Hey Ian:

 

Can you email them to me at sbonagof@aol.com? I'll host the pics for you. I'd love to see them!

[Samurai-Bill]

It might be hard to counterfeit a Silver age Key Issue , but it might be easy in a slab .

 

All you see in a slab is the cover and back you have no idea whats inside could be blank paper .

 

So all you really need to do is forge the CGC label and barcode , you could put anything inside an empty slab .

 

Buy a Modern CGC book get the comic out use the fake label and phony comic .

 

It's like fine art , people are scared to admit they own a forgery .

[nearmint]

Remember, though...covers are made of a much more durable paper than the pulp used on the interior wraps.

 

Ian, I bet both your books SMELL like original Golden Age books...and that might be more difficult to duplicate.