Dealer Grading of Raw 9.2, 9.4 , 9.6, and 9.8s

[sfilosa]

am giving the CGC book value, I very rarely discount a CGC book, the raw book gets 15% off which is $67.50. If you feel more comfortable with the CGC copy than spend the $450, if you like the raw copy spend $382.50 which would probably be rounded to $375.

 

Fair enough!

 

Now are all (or most) of your unslabbed book able to get a 15% discount?

[nearmint]

I don't think it matters whether a dealer uses alpha or numerical grades. Remember, before the advent of CGC, dealers would classify super high grade books as NM, NM+, NM/MT, and MT. It's just a different way of saying 9.4, 9.6, 9.8, and 10.

 

I applaud Bob for asking the same price for a raw book that he asks for a slabbed book. I was recently on a major dealer's site, and they had a raw and slabbed copy of a particular book in 9.4. The slabbed copy was $400, the raw copy was $240.

[sfilosa]

I applaud Bob for asking the same price for a raw book that he asks for a slabbed book. I was recently on a major dealer's site, and they had a raw and slabbed copy of a particular book in 9.4. The slabbed copy was $400, the raw copy was $240.

 

 

Huh?

 

Assume that $400 is the market value for that book CGC'd. Why shouldn't an uncertified copy be listed for less. The buyer to get the liquidity of CGC'd books would have to spend $50 getting it graded. And if CGC decides that day the book should receive a 9.2 (or worse, finds restoration), then the buyer probably could have puchased a certified copy in CGC 9.2 for less than the $290 ($240+$50).

[blazingbob]

If you are at a show and I have my regular inventory I discount 15%. I also have a very large new collection where I am giving 10% but on lower grade in it I will do more.

 

I do not have a 15% standard discount running off my website but will have this type of feature in my new version coming in the next couple of months. It will give me more flexibility in targeting inventory, targeting certain titles and also certain genre's where I can be more flexible in my discounting.

[blazingbob]

I buy a lot of books from other dealers and quite frankly very rarely agree with their NM grade. You basically look at the book, look at their price and do the risk/reward of whether it will CGC a 9.4. If you pay $400 for a book that could come back a CGC 9.2 than "YOU" made a bad decision. My risk/reward or buying from somebody raw is that I assume it will grade a 9.2 or worse a 9.0. If the price warrants the risk, I buy it. If it doesn't I don't buy it. If the dealers asks why I am passing on books I tell them point blank. The risk/reward isn't worth it, good luck and I hope you get the price.

[sfilosa]

I can't wait to see your new website.

 

I also don't discuss grade if buying in person. Either, I like the price or not.

[NoImSpartacus]

If the price warrants the risk, I buy it. If it doesn't I don't buy it. If the dealers asks why I am passing on books I tell them point blank. The risk/reward isn't worth it, good luck and I hope you get the price.

 

This is exactly what had happened to me in one store situation. Dealer was asking a 9.4 price for a book that maybe would hit 9.0 if lucky. Difference in price was $ 240.00. All six key books way overgraded as 9.4s. Situation was very odd cause here I am, on a good day with lots of money from the sale of a nice collectible the week before which would allow me to make this big purchase. He sees me with about 6 key expensive books. I put the books down and said thankyou. Dealer is then looking at me like how could you not be purchasing these books and wasting my time bringing them down for you to look at. All I could say when the dealer was putting back the books was " I would really like to purchase from you and you have caught me at a perfect time but, I just dont believe those books warrant a 9.4 price". Perhaps he paid higher for them. I dont know. The problem is at that point there is no leeway of sale. It basically comes down to me leaving only cause there is no way to come to common ground due to such a difference in price. WIll I visit the store again. My answer would be no as the grading is consistantly a 1/2 grade off on low grades but more importantly 2 or 3 grades off once we get into the 9.4, 9.6, 9.8 realm.

 

I am really having a bit of a problem understanding how anyone can grade a comic 9.6, 9.8 when we do not even know what CGC grading criteria is for putting the books at those grades. Can someone please explain that to me?

 

BlasingBob- Havent had the pleasure of talking with you. This post has nothing to do with you on a personal level so please do not feel as if you have to defend yourself. You sound like a fine gentleman. I opened this post topic strictly for opinions and not regarding any specific dealers. I address this post to dealers who basically call a book a 9.4, 9.6, 9.8 when in fact they are not even close to that grade.

[FFB]

My point here is: Do you believe store dealers or ebay dealers should be even remotely trying to give their books CGC number grades, especially when a book is over say 9.0 or 9.2 status. I ask simply because once a book gets above a certain level no one knows what CGC is looking for in their grading criteria. How could the dealer be giving a grade of 9.6 or 9.8 when never having worked for CGC and not knowing their criteria once the grading gets above 9.2 or so. . Secondly, I don’t know how anyone else feels but unless its Slabbed with a CGC grade, I would never feel comfortable as to any dealers opinion of exact grade above a 9.0.

 

The 10.0 scale is the Overstreet Scale, not the "CGC" scale. CGC does not have a monopoly on the grading scale. They simply provide an opinion on where each graded book falls on the scale. I believe that every dealer has the right to assign whatever grade he feels is appropriate to a book, all the way up to 10.0. And I have the right to apply the scale as I think appropriate and debate with him his grading without him being a jerk about it.

 

If a dealer refuses to discuss grading with me in a reasonable manner, I walk away.

[drbanner]

I am really having a bit of a problem understanding how anyone can grade a comic 9.6, 9.8 when we do not even know what CGC grading criteria is for putting the books at those grades. Can someone please explain that to me?

 

They're not using CGC grading criteria, they're using the OS grading criteria and scale. Coincidentally, CGC says they also use the OS scale, but when you're buying a raw 9.6, you need to look at it as an OS, raw 9.6 grade, not a CGC 9.6 grade. CGC does not have a monopoly on the use of numerical grades!!

[FFB]

Bob,

 

It's been awhile since I last made a purchase from you, but I have been VERY VERY HAPPY with ALL my transactions with you. You are a straight up dealer and GREAT to work with.

 

Ditto.

[a_mysterious_penguin-migra]

In addition to the point about CGC not having a monopoly on the numerical scale, it's also worth pointing out that both the buyer and the seller are undoubtedly looking at the book and thinking, "Hmm, I think this has a shot at a 9.6 or maybe even a 9.8 if I submit it," so why shouldn't they acknowledge what they're both thinking by actually discussing the numbers? Secondly, in regards to the Ebay thing, the reality is that alot of people search by numerical grades, even when looking for raw books, so if you don't put one in your title, you're substantially and artificially limiting your potential customer base. Of course, if there's room, I think you should also put the word "raw" in there, so people can put a "-raw" filter on their searches if they want only slabbed books.

[FFB]

I am really having a bit of a problem understanding how anyone can grade a comic 9.6, 9.8 when we do not even know what CGC grading criteria is for putting the books at those grades. Can someone please explain that to me?

 

They're not using CGC grading criteria, they're using the OS grading criteria and scale. Coincidentally, CGC says they also use the OS scale, but when you're buying a raw 9.6, you need to look at it as an OS, raw 9.6 grade, not a CGC 9.6 grade. CGC does not have a monopoly on the use of numerical grades!!

 

Well said, Dr. B. This thing about the grading scale being "CGC's grading scale" is one of the most frustrating things that I hear people say. CGC does not have a "CGC grading scale." Their grades are their opinions of where books should fall on the OS scale, with some slight variations in the assignment of green labels for replaced staples and a few other distinctions, such as the decision to allow Signature Series books to get a 10.0, rather than a 9.9, which is the maximum grade that Overstreet allows for a signed book.

 

When I spoke to Steve Borock at WonderCon, he made it very clear that when CGC consulted with Gemstone in the preparation of the Overstreet Grading Guide, CGC said that they would use whatever grading scale Overstreet decided on. It is Overstreet's scale, not CGC's scale. And it is the industry grading standard, so not only do we all (collectors and dealers alike) have equal right to use it, we all SHOULD be using the same numerical standard so that we're all speaking the same "language" when we discuss grading.

 

If people want to use the letter designations instead of numbers for whatever reason, that is also fine with me, as the letter designations clearly correspond to a numerical level. A NM means the same thing as a 9.4, just like a FN- means the same thing as a 5.5.

[CompleteRunComics]

They're not using CGC grading criteria, they're using the OS grading criteria and scale. Coincidentally, CGC says they also use the OS scale, but when you're buying a raw 9.6, you need to look at it as an OS, raw 9.6 grade, not a CGC 9.6 grade. CGC does not have a monopoly on the use of numerical grades!!

 

I though OS used a 100 point system for grading? Or is my 1st edition OS Grading Guide extinct?

 

CRC

[Foolkiller]

There's no bar in advertising the book however you want. You think you're POS is a 9.6, go ahead and put it up that way. You won't have much credibility. If you're an accurate grader, sure, put it up at 9.6 or 9.8 as well -- I wouldn't expect to get those prices, and be prepared for somebody to undoubtedly b**ch about your over grading the book, but nobody can stop you.

 

I think looking at a book and calling it a 9.6 or a 9.8 is tough. You're sort of guessing a little bit if you're going with CGC standards because it's somewhat difficult to tell.

 

Some dealers grade significantly better than others, and I think part of the trick is to filter out the dealers whose grading you think is off. I'm down to visiting about four dealers at most shows (that I go to on a regular basis where almost everyone is the same) -- other than that, it's beginning to get to the point where it's barely worth my time to look through boxes any more... but occassionally you do find that gem.

[FFB]

They're not using CGC grading criteria, they're using the OS grading criteria and scale. Coincidentally, CGC says they also use the OS scale, but when you're buying a raw 9.6, you need to look at it as an OS, raw 9.6 grade, not a CGC 9.6 grade. CGC does not have a monopoly on the use of numerical grades!!

 

I though OS used a 100 point system for grading? Or is my 1st edition OS Grading Guide extinct?

 

CRC

 

It is obsolete. Here's the second edition that has the 10.0 scale. New Overstreet Grading Guide link

[Foolkiller]

the new grading guide (and a previous edition of the OS guide) switched to the 10 point scale.

[CompleteRunComics]

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They're not using CGC grading criteria, they're using the OS grading criteria and scale. Coincidentally, CGC says they also use the OS scale, but when you're buying a raw 9.6, you need to look at it as an OS, raw 9.6 grade, not a CGC 9.6 grade. CGC does not have a monopoly on the use of numerical grades!!

 

 

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I though OS used a 100 point system for grading? Or is my 1st edition OS Grading Guide extinct?

 

CRC

 

 

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It is obsolete. Here's the second edition that has the 10.0 scale. New Overstreet Grading Guide link

 

Thanks for the link.

 

It's no wonder some people think the 10.0 system is CGC's, it's all of us 's still using the old OS Grading Guide. Copyright 1992 my guide says, how did I end up with a 1992 guide I just bought last year!? That LCS owner must have seen me coming a mile away. I knew $12 sounded cheap.

 

CRC

[sfilosa]

Some dealers grade significantly better than others, and I think part of the trick is to filter out the dealers whose grading you think is off. I'm down to visiting about four dealers at most shows (that I go to on a regular basis where almost everyone is the same) -- other than that, it's beginning to get to the point where it's barely worth my time to look through boxes any more... but occassionally you do find that gem.

 

Which is why I fee that conventions are going to be a "tough sell" to dealers in the future.

 

1) Many people looking through long boxes ARE NOT, looking for a particular issue in any grade. They are actually looking for GEMS.

 

2) If a dealer has CGC books, more than likely they can and will get more money selling on the internet (simply they have the whole world as their buyer).

 

3) While there maybe be a few sales of low to mid-grade books, it will stop being worth the dealers time/money to pay for the table and operating expense, and lug around boxes and boxes of books so that people can PAW through them looking for those Non-Existent GEMS.

[Paul_Maul]

I think if more dealers had a selection of older books in mid-grade, they would do fine at shows. Although high grade collecting has certainly become more popular, I'd love to pick up 10-cent DC's

in VG/FN or FN. The problem is, many dealers, even fairly large back-issue oriented ones, have a few silver age DC's in FR/G, and a lot of low/mid-grade Silver/Bronze Age marvels. They have to accept the fact that this stuff is a dime a dozen and won't draw crowds unless steeply discounted.

[Foolkiller]

I agree with the fact that generally, dealers can get more for their CGC books on the web... but some still have them marked up high because they feel they can get more for them sometimes at shows.

 

Speaking of CGC books dropping... ASM 122 in 9.2 is going around $300 or less these days... that seems like a drop off from even last year. I know no movie hype, but it does seem less. Maybe I'm wrong it just seems like that, but 9.2 bronze doesn't seem to command that much... even for spideys.