Dealer Grading of Raw 9.2, 9.4 , 9.6, and 9.8s

[sfilosa]

think if more dealers had a selection of older books in mid-grade, they would do fine at shows. Although high grade collecting has certainly become more popular, I'd love to pick up 10-cent DC's

in VG/FN or FN. The problem is, many dealers, even fairly large back-issue oriented ones, have a few silver age DC's in FR/G, and a lot of low/mid-grade Silver/Bronze Age marvels. They have to accept the fact that this stuff is a dime a dozen and won't draw crowds unless steeply discounted.

 

But are you paying Guide for these books (the DC's)?

 

And is there any money in these books for dealers to have in their inventory?

 

As I said in another post, it seems most people are looking for GEMS or they are buying books for 10 cents to $1. Is that worth a dealers time and money?

[Paul_Maul]

Yes, I will pay close to guide for 10-cent Batman and Supermans. Though I am sometimes shocked

that in FN some of these Batmans are still $100 books, I love 'em and compared to a 9.4 20-cent Spidey for $150 it seems like quite a bargain.

 

To me a little mid-grade Silver Age DC is more worthwhile at shows than mid-grade Bronze Marvels.

I think books that are really rare in high grade still command a premium in midgrade. Let's face it, there aren't too many people trying to collect Batrman 100-120 in 9.6

 

I guess part of the problem is that not too many mid-sized dealers have access to much of this stuff.

[blazingbob]

Well, I feel that some high grade collectors are very lazy, a certain MAN collector comes to mind. Grade it right, price it low, guarantee a CGC grade, make sure it's always the tough issue(s) to find, give me a discount and point them all out in the thousands of books you have in your inventory.

[NoImSpartacus]

They're not using CGC grading criteria, they're using the OS grading criteria and scale. Coincidentally, CGC says they also use the OS scale, but when you're buying a raw 9.6, you need to look at it as an OS, raw 9.6 grade, not a CGC 9.6 grade. CGC does not have a monopoly on the use of numerical grades!!

 

Why do I need to look at it as a raw 9.6 grade and not a CGC 9.6. Shouldnt the grading be the same for both and therefore the price per the same graded book in either raw or cgc be the same?

his because the raw 9.6 has more leeway in the grade due to non certification or because CGC is tighter in the way they grade? Or, another reason not known by me. Perhaps I am looking at something incorrectly. Thanks for any help.

[blazingbob]

1955-1959 DC in VF are extremely difficult and I would buy a collection of that material in a second.

[Paul_Maul]

Well, I feel that some high grade collectors are very lazy.

 

This is the environment that CGC and ebay have fostered.

 

Pre-1999, knowing where to look and putting in leg-work attending shows paid off, so that those without enormous wallets could still score some nice books. Now we have achieved a nearly pure

capitalist system in which a willingness to pay high trumps everything in obtaining the nicest books.

Maybe that's the way it should be in an efficient system, but it certainly encourages laziness among the

rich collector set....

[blazingbob]

The price of raw vs graded is different because a "neutral" third party grading system hasn't said your raw book is a unrestored page quality etc 9.6.

 

We have handed our "B*LLS to CGC

[drbanner]

They're not using CGC grading criteria, they're using the OS grading criteria and scale. Coincidentally, CGC says they also use the OS scale, but when you're buying a raw 9.6, you need to look at it as an OS, raw 9.6 grade, not a CGC 9.6 grade. CGC does not have a monopoly on the use of numerical grades!!

 

Why do I need to look at it as a raw 9.6 grade and not a CGC 9.6. Shouldnt the grading be the same for both and therefore the price per the same graded book in either raw or cgc be the same?

his because the raw 9.6 has more leeway in the grade due to non certification or because CGC is tighter in the way they grade? Or, another reason not known by me. Perhaps I am looking at something incorrectly. Thanks for any help.

 

Yes...pretend CGC doesn't exist, and reading the OS Grading Guide you see that it lays out the criteria for a "9.6" grade. When someone is selling a raw book graded 9.6, this is what they're saying - according to the OS grading criteria, this book is a 9.6. Don't let the fact that CGC also uses a 9.6 grade confuse you into thinking that the dealer's raw 9.6 grade is supposed to be the same as a CGC 9.6 grade.

 

Your original question:

 

I am really having a bit of a problem understanding how anyone can grade a comic 9.6, 9.8 when we do not even know what CGC grading criteria is for putting the books at those grades. Can someone please explain that to me?

 

assumed that outside of CGC, a 9.6 or 9.8 does not exist, when in reality, it does. Sound good?

[NoImSpartacus]

Yes...pretend CGC doesn't exist, and reading the OS Grading Guide you see that it lays out the criteria for a "9.6" grade. When someone is selling a raw book graded 9.6, this is what they're saying - according to the OS grading criteria, this book is a 9.6. Don't let the fact that CGC also uses a 9.6 grade confuse you into thinking that the dealer's raw 9.6 grade is supposed to be the same as a CGC 9.6 grade.

 

assumed that outside of CGC, a 9.6 or 9.8 does not exist, when in reality, it does. Sound good?

 

 

Sounds good up to this point. Can I ask one last question for clearification

If I assume a 9.6 or 9.8 grade does not exist outside of cgc, then how do I get the overstreet grading standards for the 9.6 to 9.8 for cgc to use, as per them using Overstreet as their grading criteria in order to grade 9.6 to 9.8 books?

If cgc cannot get the overstreet standards for 9.6 to 9.8 then how do they award a 9.6 or 9.8 grade.

Again, perhaps I am looking at this wrong. Just need clarification in the 9.6 to 9.8 realm. Not trying to be a pain here, just trying to get the parameters down. The other grades I understand from you explaination. Thankyou on that.

[drbanner]

Yes...pretend CGC doesn't exist, and reading the OS Grading Guide you see that it lays out the criteria for a "9.6" grade. When someone is selling a raw book graded 9.6, this is what they're saying - according to the OS grading criteria, this book is a 9.6. Don't let the fact that CGC also uses a 9.6 grade confuse you into thinking that the dealer's raw 9.6 grade is supposed to be the same as a CGC 9.6 grade.

 

assumed that outside of CGC, a 9.6 or 9.8 does not exist, when in reality, it does. Sound good?

 

 

Sounds good up to this point. Can I ask one last question for clearification

If I assume a 9.6 or 9.8 grade does not exist outside of cgc, then how do I get the overstreet grading standards for the 9.6 to 9.8 for cgc to use, as per them using Overstreet as their grading criteria in order to grade 9.6 to 9.8 books?

If cgc cannot get the overstreet standards for 9.6 to 9.8 then how do they award a 9.6 or 9.8 grade.

Again, perhaps I am looking at this wrong. Just need clarification in the 9.6 to 9.8 realm. Not trying to be a pain here, just trying to get the parameters down. The other grades I understand from you explaination. Thankyou on that.

 

Do you have the OS grading guide? It has all the same grades as CGC, all the way up to 10.0!! So the answer to your question is that Overstreet does have standards for all the numerical grades CGC uses...

[nearmint]

I applaud Bob for asking the same price for a raw book that he asks for a slabbed book. I was recently on a major dealer's site, and they had a raw and slabbed copy of a particular book in 9.4. The slabbed copy was $400, the raw copy was $240.

 

 

Huh?

 

Assume that $400 is the market value for that book CGC'd. Why shouldn't an uncertified copy be listed for less. The buyer to get the liquidity of CGC'd books would have to spend $50 getting it graded. And if CGC decides that day the book should receive a 9.2 (or worse, finds restoration), then the buyer probably could have puchased a certified copy in CGC 9.2 for less than the $290 ($240+$50).

 

You're proceeding from a false assumption, but it's because I didn't give you enough info. Fair market value for the book(per GPA) is $250.

 

I'm wishy-washy on whether it's cool to tack on the price of submission. It's a cost of doing business that dealers write off on their taxes, but you really lose me on your other two points.

 

You seem to be suggesting that it's reasonable for a dealer not to price a book based on the grade they themselves came up with, but to base it on what CGC MIGHT grade it. I can't imagine many dealers that would grade a book 9.4, then out of the kindness of their heart price it at 9.2 on the chance that CGC might undergrade it. In the case of the $400 book mentioned above, the dealer did the exact opposite. He priced the raw copy at the GPA price, then tacked on the other $160 for the slabbed copy.

 

Your point about restoration really threw me. You're saying a dealer should price the raw copy lower because it might be restored? First of all, I mentioned this way a major dealer. He's more than capable of detecting restoration. Again, I can't imagine a dealer lowballing the price on a book because it MIGHT be restored.

[sfilosa]

The price of raw vs graded is different because a "neutral" third party grading system hasn't said your raw book is a unrestored page quality etc 9.6.

 

We have handed our "B*LLS to CGC

 

 

Anyone who believes that a CGC 9.4 book should sell for the same as an uncertified 9.4 must have missed the last 30 years of comic book collecting.

 

1) Most collectors/dealers OVERGRADE!!!!!

 

2) Most collectors/dealers could not spot all types of restoration all the time.

 

How many sellers really spend the amount of time necessary to full evaluate the grade of a book, unless it's worth hundreds of dollars. I met with dealer who had sent me a list of their books. I said I wanted to see your FF #66 that says NM.

 

At first glance, the book did look NM (sharp corners, almost no spine), except their is very light 5" corner crease (which means the book is a FINE). As a seller, HE DIDN'T WANT TO SEE THAT!!!!!!

 

And even at a convention, no one is going to tell me that they have never bought a book only find out that there were defects they didn't see when they bought it.

 

CGC provides a SERVICE that ADDS VALUE to the book.

 

Lastly, regarding 10 cent DC's, notice that Bob said he would buy a whole collection in VF. Well to me, VF is HIGH-GRADE for 1950 books. But Bob, would you buy a large collection of VG's-FN's (and I mean at 50% of guide, not 10%).

[nearmint]

1) Most collectors/dealers OVERGRADE!!!!!

2) Most collectors/dealers could not spot all types of restoration all the time.

 

Well, sure, WE know that. Your mistake is assuming that these dealers/collectors know that, and that they actually lower the price of their raw books to make up for their inability to grade and spot resto. I just don't think that's happening.

[Ron_Nasty]

 

Anyone who believes that a CGC 9.4 book should sell for the same as an uncertified 9.4 must have missed the last 30 years of comic book collecting.

 

1) Most collectors/dealers OVERGRADE!!!!!

 

2) Most collectors/dealers could not spot all types of restoration all the time.

 

The same applies to CGC, CGG and that other one.

[sfilosa]

Well, sure, WE know that. Your mistake is assuming that these dealers/collectors know that, and that they actually lower the price of their raw books to make up for their inability to grade and spot resto. I just don't think that's happening.

 

Hence the reason for CGC!!!!!

[blazingbob]

The last time I looked my company name pretty much says what business I am in - Highgradecomics.com. I do not buy VG-FN's of a lot of genres. If I did buy a collection of FN 1955-1959's they would have to have great eye appeal. There is not wrong with a accurately graded fine with great eye appeal.

[Aman619]

Well, I feel that some high grade collectors are very lazy, a certain MAN collector comes to mind. Grade it right, price it low, guarantee a CGC grade, make sure it's always the tough issue(s) to find, give me a discount and point them all out in the thousands of books you have in your inventory.

 

do you mean a superMAN collector?

or maybe an ant-MAN collector?

certainly you cant mean an aMAN collector?

[Darthdiesel]

Well, I feel that some high grade collectors are very lazy, a certain MAN collector comes to mind. Grade it right, price it low, guarantee a CGC grade, make sure it's always the tough issue(s) to find, give me a discount and point them all out in the thousands of books you have in your inventory.

 

do you mean a superMAN collector?

or maybe an ant-MAN collector?

certainly you cant mean an aMAN collector?

 

 

G

... I wonder who Bob could be referring to

[drbanner]

Well, I feel that some high grade collectors are very lazy, a certain MAN collector comes to mind. Grade it right, price it low, guarantee a CGC grade, make sure it's always the tough issue(s) to find, give me a discount and point them all out in the thousands of books you have in your inventory.

 

do you mean a superMAN collector?

or maybe an ant-MAN collector?

certainly you cant mean an aMAN collector?

 

 

G

... I wonder who Bob could be referring to

 

man

...I don't know?

[FFB]

You guys are funny.