9.6/9.8 market oversaturated???

[fantastic_four]

The implication of the economy contributing to pressing is that people are desperate, so whereas they wouldn't normally press, they're doing it in this economy because they're under financial duress. Can't see it influencing more than a handful of decisions.

[Bronty]

yep.

[MutantKeys]

What happened to the days of $9,000 ASM 129's, $1,000+ Bronze ASM, $500+ Bronze X-Men, and expensive HG Bronze Age non-keys?? I took a quick glance at completed auctions on pedigree and eBay and couldn't believe how many books have tanked over the last year. Are too many books becoming available at once? Is everyone pressing? Seems like "Single Top Census" are far and few between. What's going on here??

 

Why are you asking questions you should obviously know the answers to.

 

Common sense my friend.

I know the answers, I just felt like starting a thread. Blame my inner Seeberger.

[fantastic_four]

absolutely. the economic downturn is just a convenient scapegoat. I collect in more than one arena and in my other main area the downturn depressed prices for about a year and that was it.

 

What areas are you seeing rises in from 2009 to 2012? Comics were initially up after 2008, as were most hard assets such as collectibles, guns, art, etc as people looked for places to park money other than the stock market. Comics started to level out again in late 2009 and have been flat since. Certainly gold and silver have continued to go up, so I've been wondering what other tangible markets with mostly-fixed populations have been doing.

 

Any drops you see on nosebleed grades is almost certainly due to increased population--the lower grades on desirable issues have mostly been flat since 2009 and haven't fallen on issues where the populations aren't much different than they ever were.

[Mephisto]

What happened to the days of $9,000 ASM 129's, $1,000+ Bronze ASM, $500+ Bronze X-Men, and expensive HG Bronze Age non-keys?? I took a quick glance at completed auctions on pedigree and eBay and couldn't believe how many books have tanked over the last year. Are too many books becoming available at once? Is everyone pressing? Seems like "Single Top Census" are far and few between. What's going on here??

 

Bronze took a big hit in high grade. I was actually thinking how I would like some bronze non key books just for the cover but I might be better off buying 9.0-9.4 raw books and putting them in mylar unless I can get in comparable grade cheap in a slab which sometimes does happen. I think a lot of bronze non keys in 9.6-9.8 are quite hefty. I didn't really check prices but it seems that perhaps HG silver age books may not necessarily have taken ehe dip the bronze books have but prices have at least went stagnant the past 5 years.

[NewWorldOrder]

What happened to the days of $9,000 ASM 129's, $1,000+ Bronze ASM, $500+ Bronze X-Men, and expensive HG Bronze Age non-keys?? I took a quick glance at completed auctions on pedigree and eBay and couldn't believe how many books have tanked over the last year. Are too many books becoming available at once? Is everyone pressing? Seems like "Single Top Census" are far and few between. What's going on here??

 

Why are you asking questions you should obviously know the answers to.

 

Common sense my friend.

I know the answers, I just felt like starting a thread. Blame my inner Seeberger.

 

[Silver Surfer]

The supply of HG Bronze was much much deeper than what was initially understood. And there is more of it out there than even we know about now.

So, supply went up, demand decreased, and prices fell

Also, more and more people are pressing books now. I bet on this forum there are at least 15 people who do press or know how to press. So, more HG copies are able to be pressed into UHG copies. Again, supply increases, demand decreses, prices fall.

All that and a lack of patience by some folks (including me) to complete their runs in high grade.

 

I think a lot of people knew there was killer bronze stuff out there that hadn't been slabbed yet. But being willing to wait for it is another story completely.

 

+1. Add me to the not very patient list but now its about page quality, gloss and owning pedigree copies [they tend to have a bit more carrying value over the long term]. Its hard to ignore great books that I was fortunate enough to buy off the rack as a kid. Hooked ever since.

[Heronext]

I recently came back to active collecting. It is interesting to see what has changed in the last 10 years. To see an early sale of Invaders #1 for example at $1000 and now it trades around 250-300 bucks is amazing and interesting. If I were a pure Bronze Age collector looks like I was out of the hobby at the right time. I personally can't afford to lose that kind of money and since I spend too much on comics I have to consider the investment aspect. Also stocks bore the crapp out of me (this from a financial services professional, albeit on the IT side).

 

If I recall correctly, interest in Bronze was picking up around the time that CGC started. "20-cent Marvels" and "picture-frame" Marvels became buzzwords. And of course Bronze collectors wanted the best available just like anyone else. Around 2001 I bought a particular 20-cent Hulk raw, perfect condition, for $19, and was a reluctant to pay that since it guided for $10. A year later after the Bronze Age hype saw the same book, also perfect condition, same dealer, this time priced at $60. I slabbed mine, it was the first 9.8 for that issue, and it sold well on eBay of course (2004 or so). I bought another nice copy I came across and that too graded a 9.8. This anecdote serves to point out both the spike in Bronze prices 10 years ago and the commonality of certain books.

 

Craze for CGC 9.8 and Bronze hit a peak at same time, now people either have it or don't want it because everyone else has it. And of course things will settle down for normal collectors & keys may recover somewhat. And where are all these high grade books coming from? I'm convinced it is stockpiles - warehouse finds or distributor overstock from those years. I think pressed copies contribute only a small amount to that supply. Just one example that popped out at me when I looked it up, She-Hulk #1 with 480 9.8s and climbing. I just can't believe that many collectors kept their books in such nice shape, considering that backing boards as far as I know did not come into common use until the mid-80s or so (old timers correct me if I'm wrong, my first comic was GI Joe #12).

[ft88]

There were a lot of collectors/dealers buying #1 issues in bulk. 5, 10, even 100 copies. Not so much with the idea of selling in 30 years for $10 each but just to sell for $2 or $5 each a year later. Mid 1970s #1 issues like Nova, Star Wars and Howard the Duck were prime examples of dealers making killings by buying for 30 cents and selling for $4 2 years later taught a lot of folks to buy in bulk. And once they were bought in bulk and set aside, it doesn't take a bag and backing board to keep it in 9.8. I've had plenty of mid 70s' books that were only bagged that came back 9.6s and 9.8's.

 

With a book like She Hulk 1, Dazzler 1, Rom 1 or Wolverine LS 1, think of how many bulk buyers there must have been across the country. 20? 50? 100?

 

Interesting too how the appeal of cartoon, romance, western, and war all went through the Bronze cycle as well. With SA and GA the flavor of the month seems to shift from one genre to another but with BA all boats rose and fell together.

 

Ed

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-01-13/entertainment/9101040312_1_rare-coins-pcgs-donn-pearlman

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_recurrence

 

[seanfingh]

 

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1991-01-13/entertainment/9101040312_1_rare-coins-pcgs-donn-pearlman

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historic_recurrence

 

 

These links actually made sense.

[COI]

I'm curious how many people payed nosebleed prices on high grade slabbed stuff back in the early 2000s.

I hope they enjoy those books for what they are because they may never recoup what they payed.

 

 

I got out early though.

[COI]

But ultimately wouldn't lower prices make, at least buyers, happy? If I had lost out on that 9.8 Spidey 129, I can now buy one for a fraction of its high. Great right.

 

Ed

 

Yup, great for buyers.

 

Until the day comes when they want to/have to sell and can only get back a fraction of what they paid.

 

The problem is there aren't as many long term buyers as there are sellers/flippers, at least not at the 9.6/9.8 level.

[shrunkenhead]

This talk of flipping made me think of this random comedy bit:

 

http://video.adultswim.com/tim-and-eric-awesome-show-great-job/fitness-can-be-e-z.html

 

Get off your couch and flip every day!

[Gatsby77]

Yeah--but the Bronze downturn's hit secondary keys as well. Books like Hero For Hire 1 and Werewolf by Night 32 have taken lost 60-80% of their value over the last four years.

 

As far as I saw, Joeypost couldn't move his 9.6 Werewolf by Night # 32 here for under $1,000, despite his asking price being a 6+ year GPA low and the book's having sold for $3,000+ just three years ago. Not one person here saw that as a good enough deal, even at ~$150 under GPA. Because whose to say that book you spent $900 on won't sell for $750 three months from now?

 

And GL 76 is the grandaddy of them all in terms of 9.6/9.8 declines in terms of dollars if not percentages.

 

The point is, 1976-1980 books (i.e., Star Wars 1 and Spider-Woman 1) these ain't.

 

 

[arexcrooke]

Yeah--but the Bronze downturn's hit secondary keys as well. Books like Hero For Hire 1 and Werewolf by Night 32 have taken lost 60-80% of their value over the last four years.

 

As far as I saw, Joeypost couldn't move his 9.6 Werewolf by Night # 32 here for under $1,000, despite his asking price being a 6+ year GPA low and the book's having sold for $3,000+ just three years ago. Not one person here saw that as a good enough deal, even at ~$150 under GPA. Because whose to say that book you spent $900 on won't sell for $750 three months from now?

 

And GL 76 is the grandaddy of them all in terms of 9.6/9.8 declines in terms of dollars if not percentages.

 

The point is, 1976-1980 books (i.e., Star Wars 1 and Spider-Woman 1) these ain't.

 

Im not arguing the over all post. But I will say that the boards can be very, well lets be honest, cheap. And the way some people send in chintzy offers, OY VEY. So, while that WWBN was reasonably priced, I wouldnt place too much stock in it as a market indicator.

I know several sellers here who will offer books at very reasonable prices, get hammered with lowball offers, and then sell them on eBay at a higher price (even with fees) than they were originally offered here.

[VintageComics]

Yeah--but the Bronze downturn's hit secondary keys as well. Books like Hero For Hire 1 and Werewolf by Night 32 have taken lost 60-80% of their value over the last four years.

 

As far as I saw, Joeypost couldn't move his 9.6 Werewolf by Night # 32 here for under $1,000, despite his asking price being a 6+ year GPA low and the book's having sold for $3,000+ just three years ago. Not one person here saw that as a good enough deal, even at ~$150 under GPA. Because whose to say that book you spent $900 on won't sell for $750 three months from now?

 

And GL 76 is the grandaddy of them all in terms of 9.6/9.8 declines in terms of dollars if not percentages.

 

The point is, 1976-1980 books (i.e., Star Wars 1 and Spider-Woman 1) these ain't.

 

Im not arguing the over all post. But I will say that the boards can be very, well lets be honest, cheap. And the way some people send in chintzy offers, OY VEY. So, while that WWBN was reasonably priced, I wouldnt place too much stock in it as a market indicator.

I know several sellers here who will offer books at very reasonable prices, get hammered with lowball offers, and then sell them on eBay at a higher price (even with fees) than they were originally offered here.

 

Yup.

 

Another point worth recognizing is that even though prices in 9.6 and 9.8 may have fallen, prices in lower grades up to 9.2/9.4 continue to rise.

 

GL 76, WWBN 32, ASM 129 and Hulk 181 etc have been rising in all grades except for the highest ones.

 

That tells me that lots of people still want the books and there is a lot of support from lower grades pushing upwards.

 

 

[mintcollector]

Yeah--but the Bronze downturn's hit secondary keys as well. Books like Hero For Hire 1 and Werewolf by Night 32 have taken lost 60-80% of their value over the last four years.

 

As far as I saw, Joeypost couldn't move his 9.6 Werewolf by Night # 32 here for under $1,000, despite his asking price being a 6+ year GPA low and the book's having sold for $3,000+ just three years ago. Not one person here saw that as a good enough deal, even at ~$150 under GPA. Because whose to say that book you spent $900 on won't sell for $750 three months from now?

 

And GL 76 is the grandaddy of them all in terms of 9.6/9.8 declines in terms of dollars if not percentages.

 

The point is, 1976-1980 books (i.e., Star Wars 1 and Spider-Woman 1) these ain't.

 

Im not arguing the over all post. But I will say that the boards can be very, well lets be honest, cheap. And the way some people send in chintzy offers, OY VEY. So, while that WWBN was reasonably priced, I wouldnt place too much stock in it as a market indicator.

I know several sellers here who will offer books at very reasonable prices, get hammered with lowball offers, and then sell them on eBay at a higher price (even with fees) than they were originally offered here.

 

This is very true. You cannot use a comic book forum, whose primary purpose is not that of a selling venue; as a barometer of the market and what may or may not be happening in the market. Personally, I think WBN #32 is a fairly stable 'bronze' age book in certain grades. I don't think 'bronze' prices will fall too much further; and I am usually accused of being the skeptic.

[jimjum12]

Yeah--but the Bronze downturn's hit secondary keys as well. Books like Hero For Hire 1 and Werewolf by Night 32 have taken lost 60-80% of their value over the last four years.

 

As far as I saw, Joeypost couldn't move his 9.6 Werewolf by Night # 32 here for under $1,000, despite his asking price being a 6+ year GPA low and the book's having sold for $3,000+ just three years ago. Not one person here saw that as a good enough deal, even at ~$150 under GPA. Because whose to say that book you spent $900 on won't sell for $750 three months from now?

 

And GL 76 is the grandaddy of them all in terms of 9.6/9.8 declines in terms of dollars if not percentages.

 

The point is, 1976-1980 books (i.e., Star Wars 1 and Spider-Woman 1) these ain't.

 

Im not arguing the over all post. But I will say that the boards can be very, well lets be honest, cheap. And the way some people send in chintzy offers, OY VEY. So, while that WWBN was reasonably priced, I wouldnt place too much stock in it as a market indicator.

I know several sellers here who will offer books at very reasonable prices, get hammered with lowball offers, and then sell them on eBay at a higher price (even with fees) than they were originally offered here.

 

Yup.

 

Another point worth recognizing is that even though prices in 9.6 and 9.8 may have fallen, prices in lower grades up to 9.2/9.4 continue to rise.

 

GL 76, WWBN 32, ASM 129 and Hulk 181 etc have been rising in all grades except for the highest ones.

 

That tells me that lots of people still want the books and there is a lot of support from lower grades pushing upwards.

 

 

...the 1000 Dollar glass ceiling restricts 95 % of all buyers. If you want top dollar.....Clink, CC, or Heritage. The Boards are great for a quick sale to free up cash for a grail. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[Silver Surfer]

Yeah--but the Bronze downturn's hit secondary keys as well. Books like Hero For Hire 1 and Werewolf by Night 32 have taken lost 60-80% of their value over the last four years.

 

As far as I saw, Joeypost couldn't move his 9.6 Werewolf by Night # 32 here for under $1,000, despite his asking price being a 6+ year GPA low and the book's having sold for $3,000+ just three years ago. Not one person here saw that as a good enough deal, even at ~$150 under GPA. Because whose to say that book you spent $900 on won't sell for $750 three months from now?

 

And GL 76 is the grandaddy of them all in terms of 9.6/9.8 declines in terms of dollars if not percentages.

 

The point is, 1976-1980 books (i.e., Star Wars 1 and Spider-Woman 1) these ain't.

 

Im not arguing the over all post. But I will say that the boards can be very, well lets be honest, cheap. And the way some people send in chintzy offers, OY VEY. So, while that WWBN was reasonably priced, I wouldnt place too much stock in it as a market indicator.

I know several sellers here who will offer books at very reasonable prices, get hammered with lowball offers, and then sell them on eBay at a higher price (even with fees) than they were originally offered here.

 

Yup.

 

Another point worth recognizing is that even though prices in 9.6 and 9.8 may have fallen, prices in lower grades up to 9.2/9.4 continue to rise.

 

GL 76, WWBN 32, ASM 129 and Hulk 181 etc have been rising in all grades except for the highest ones.

 

That tells me that lots of people still want the books and there is a lot of support from lower grades pushing upwards.

 

 

Arex/Roy good points. I buy tons of BA books but spending $3K+ on any one BA book is not something I want do very often if at all. I can get a dozen nice books with that kind of money or heck a few SA books instead. I just keep postponing that kind of large purchase and meanwhile more copies will hit the market, prices get cheaper. Besides the number of $1,000+ BA books is pretty small and books like Hero for Hire, WWBN are second and third tier series at best [don't even get me started on ASM#129, its the most overrated issue of the last 30 years!].