Me, the NOD, and regret.

[seanfingh]

You are a promoter, no?

 

You did buy the show, no?

 

You convince people and want people to come to your show, no?

 

I believe you have a cause when you run the show to make a profit and give people a good show for their money.

 

You have tried to convince me to do the show.

 

I guess that wouldn't qualify as being a crusader for a comic related cause which is this case is yourself?

 

You very rarely look silly Bob, but you made it to the top of the mountain with this one.

[MrBedrock]

So would it be fair to say that the entire argument boils down to disclosure?

 

This topic has been ongoing and will continue simply because some feel pressing is Resto and some don't. Those who don't consider it Resto don't care if it's disclosed because they would buy and sell the book pressed or not. Those who do consider it Resto want it disclosed because they don't want to buy or sell a pressed book.

 

It becomes an argument of semantics about what restoration actually encompasses. Simply because you feel one way or another does not strengthen your argument.

 

Always follow the money. If CGC could magically start detecting pressing and giving those books PLODs then the pressing sect would simply not submit their books or sell in circles where CGC isn't the end all be all.

 

I think it's unreasonable to question someone's integrity or label them as dishonest if they participate in a practice that is acceptable to an equal part of the collecting community.

 

 

 

 

Hi.. My names Pat. I won't be vague at ALL.

 

Pressing, if you believe it to be restoration or not means it is a matter of disclosing known "work" done to a book.

 

This community is much smaller than the comic collecting community, and THAT means that it is NOT the acceptable to an equal part of the collecting community.

 

How many times should a book be pressed? At what point is it bad for a book to continue to be pressed? Why do I NOT have the right to know what was done before I make a purchase?

 

And I have always said that leaving out information is basically being dishonest. Don't agree, thats fine. But if I ask and you lie I will flame the seller publicly whenever I want.

 

And to move past even that. Some people have their head so far up major dealers azzes or are so busy sucking up to them, that they actually give them passes for the same things that you would burn an ebay dealer at the stake for.

 

There is alot more to these discussions than just pressing, and we are really losing sight as to what is and is not acceptable behavior in this hobby.

Another example of why NOD died.

[TupennyConan]

 

[TupennyConan]

I'll donate a FREE table to the CBCA at the September 23rd Orlando Comic Expo. $100 value.

 

Orlando Comic Expo

 

Also folks, please note that Orlando Comic Expo still has a few dealer tables remaining for its inaugural event!

 

 

 

 

[TupennyConan]

I've got a Conan the Barbarian 15 CGC 9.6 OWW priced at $200 shipped within the US for sale in the forums right now.

 

 

$20 OFF if you say you heard about it in this thread!

[seanfingh]

 

Can I swear fealty and a blood oath to the Knights Templar of the Crusade to Promote Better Grading, Less Pissing and Moaning, And Other Topics Deemed Worthy By the BSDs That Be?

[TupennyConan]

Can I swear fealty and a blood oath to the Knights Templar of the Crusade to Promote Better Grading, Less Pissing and Moaning, And Other Topics Deemed Worthy By the BSDs That Be?

 

Impressive.

[Straw-Man]

Quite frankly, I'm trying to foster discourse in a positive manner. It's generally all I ever do on here. I've had a few posts in my 8 year past where I might have gotten ticked off at someone for whatever reason but for the most part, I'm here to learn and play nice.

 

While Sean might prefer one liners and one-off sentences that can easily be digested and assimilated like a power bar, in my opinion that is not going to provide any forward traction in any real sense in a debate/discussion/disagreement.

 

Sean, if you don't like what I write then just put me on ignore.

 

 

Sometimes I love what you write. There are just sooooooooooooooooooooo many instances where you crank out a wall of text to say "you think this, he thinks that, the answer lies between."

 

You have the right to say it and I have the right to be exasperated by it. It is not fostering discourse. It is white noise.

 

And I have the right to be exasperated by your constant exasperation.

 

What Peter wrote was a partially incomplete thought to me and I commented on it. If everyone saw everything the same way there wouldn't be a need for laws and lawyers.

 

How about you just put your comments about me in white text and PM it to yourself next time.

 

 

goddam lawyers.

[Straw-Man]

We might figure out who the collector is with all the pressed books that made sure they didn't deem pressing as restoration,

 

Hindsight is 20/20. If you were Steve Borock, how would you have defined CGC's stance towards pressing given that it isn't even detectable?

 

It's detectable some of the time. More than you may think. And it would be alot more detectable still if there were large digital databases of slabbed comics in addition to the one maintained by Heritage.

 

THE GALLERY OF DISCLOSURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

man, i miss those days.

 

but, seriously, the idea that in addition to grading a book they take in, cgc has to also do some sleuthing to see if it's ever been scanned in a prior incarnation simply seems untenable/unreasonable to me.

 

once in their hands for a paid grading, the book just "is what it is." grade what you see before you, not what you find in the past. that one was already graded.

[Straw-Man]

I see at least 2 problems with this.

 

First, CGC obviously has standards and trains their people to grade to those standards, yet I see quite a bit of fluctuation in grading, not only from month to month, but from year to year.

 

The 2nd problem is that as an unless someone is going to run these seminars forever, as one teacher "retires", a new one must take his place. We have seen this at CGC, with Steve, Mark, and now Paul. I am not going to claim that any are better than others. I am simply going to stay that different things(defects) were viewed in a different light (or levels of importance) by different people.

 

Then I would submit that CGC"s standards are not documented for themselves. If it were, then the individual biases wouldn't be involved. If we want to extend this beyond CGC then we need to be able to bottle the magic. Apparently, the golden goose is on the loose.

 

i know exactly what it means. love the ones that have it.

 

Individual biases (I don't like the negative connotation of that, lets say individual preferences) will always happen, and always should. To me, it is what makes the hobby interesting. As long as individuals are involved, it is impossible to avoid these biases, even with the original standard.

 

Let me give you an example, you have 2 books (this is probably going to occur more in the 8.0 - 9.2 range). Both with the same cumulative number(degree) of defects, but one book has snow white pages, great color strike, and gloss. Only a fool would call the books the same grade. While one book has average eye appeal, one book has outstanding eye appeal, and in my opinion, that eye appeal has to raise the grade at least slightly, in comparison with the other book. I guess what I am trying to say, is that grading is more than counting the number of defects on a book. It has to do with freshness, and eye appeal as well. You have to figure not only the defects on a book, but also, the components of a book that might be better than most examples.

 

 

I say it all the time...there is more to a book than structural defects - smell, feel, gloss, bounce, resilience of the paper - these are all things that are intangible through a holder and yet might be responsible for a grade bump making the book look overgraded in a holder.

 

What the F is "bounce" this is the first time I have ever heard this phase used to describe a comics condition. Do we throw the book on the ground to determine its "bounce". If so, how hard should we throw it?

 

i know exactly what he means. love the ones that have it.

[comicwiz]

You are a promoter, no?

 

You did buy the show, no?

 

You convince people and want people to come to your show, no?

 

I believe you have a cause when you run the show to make a profit and give people a good show for their money.

 

You have tried to convince me to do the show.

 

I guess that wouldn't qualify as being a crusader for a comic related cause which is this case is yourself?

 

Oh, that's a good point. I buy & sell comics in the forums & promote the two Florida shows while I'm here.

 

That could be a crusade.

 

Wait, does that mean we're going to see an "As *spoon* as Arch comes back from vacation, TupennyConan will be TuppenyCrusader" thread?

[Theagenes]

The last thing that comes to my mind when I think of my beloved escapist comic book hobby is crusading for a comic book related cause.

 

+1

 

 

I gave consideration to joining the CBCA when it formed.

 

I thought it would be cool to hangout at their functions & make some friends & talk comics & make fun of greggy. Maybe have a beer.

 

I never paid any attention to the group's platform or agenda. Why do that? I already have my own.

 

NOD was about crusades. Some people miss that I guess, but not me.

 

CBCA is about enjoying the hobby and making it more fun. That's the real difference---or at least that's my perspective.

 

 

I decided not to join when I realized Theagenes was a CBCA muckity muck.

 

 

[Theagenes]

I'll donate a FREE table to the CBCA at the September 23rd Orlando Comic Expo. $100 value.

 

 

 

That's very cool, Bill. If I or one of the other FL members can make it, we may take you up on that.

[comicdonna]

I'll donate a FREE table to the CBCA at the September 23rd Orlando Comic Expo. $100 value.

 

Orlando Comic Expo

 

Also folks, please note that Orlando Comic Expo still has a few dealer tables remaining for its inaugural event!

 

 

 

Very generous, Bill!

 

Also, thanks to Bob, Steve, Joey, Tracey and everyone else that has offered info, assistance and support to this.

[TupennyConan]

It's a cheap trick to get Jeff to come hang out & have beers.

[Theagenes]

It's a cheap trick to get Jeff to come hang out & have beers.

 

Now we're talkin'

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I made a proposal on the CBCA boards.

[VintageComics]

I made a proposal on the CBCA boards.

 

I think you should start a thread about it.