ComicLink November 2012 Auction - McFarlane Strikes Again

[Dan.Adrians]

It's easy to give props for one of, if not, the best of Todd's work (#316). You are a lucky man. I also happen to agree with you, as long as the collectors can afford them , they will keep on buying. With all the hulabaloo about elongated jaws and prices realized last year, which, by the way, was way before this recent ceiling shattering auction at HA.com, (did anyone really think that the "Hulk being punched in the balls" cover was going to hit over 650k, I think not). In all reality, how many of us in on this discussion can even be a buyer of any of Todd's Spiderman related covers? One or two of us? I for one can't be part of that elite group. I wish I was as fortunate as the Bronty's of the world. But on the subject of "quality" Spidey covers, HA is offering Spidey 8. That cover is a train wreck! I can't imagine it selling for less than 50k. Spidey 4, elongated jaw and all, is 100 times better. I think Artoholic, a person who happens to own a Todd ASM cover, is correct, 4 is a nice cover. But, what the heck do I know, I can't afford one anyway, so my opinion is worth less than two cents. One thing is for sure, big money will be spent on all the covers over the next couple auctions.

[Kevin76]

You don't read well Kevin, that's not what I said...I said at that time, a Mattingly rookie card cost the same as a Mantle high end card. Not a '52 Mantle.

 

Also round that time a NM TNMT #1 was $300, the same price as a Spider-Man #1 in FN.

 

For the purpose of documenting changing relative value, the example is a good one.

 

But by your tone, you sound like you are here for an argument.

 

I am here for light, not heat.

 

R

 

not here for an argument, it's called having a passion.

[artoholic]

Dan--back in 2004 when the 316 was offered for sale, I was told by an art dealer and friends that I was "retarded" for paying 50k for it. I also had to sell/trade 2 of my best pieces of artwork I had to acquire it. So, it really was an all in move both artwise and fiscally back then.

 

I'm still thankful to Will Gabriel for giving me 3-4 months to pay off the balance.

 

Thanks Will!!!!

 

Joe

[Bronty]

Boy I could be very wrong but I don't see this one getting big numbers at ALL. Lizards dislocated unhinged jaw is all I can look at. I'm bearish on this one.

 

Looks cool and who cares?

 

I'm trying to place the quote..... Let's see.... Let's see...... How To Draw the Rob Liefeld way, chapter 1?

[Kevin76]

Boy I could be very wrong but I don't see this one getting big numbers at ALL. Lizards dislocated unhinged jaw is all I can look at. I'm bearish on this one.

 

Looks cool and who cares?

 

I'm trying to place the quote..... Let's see.... Let's see...... How To Draw the Rob Liefeld way, chapter 1?

 

I'm not saying Mcfarlane is the next Burne Hogarth, Liefeld sucks, plain and simple. Liefeld draws like he's blind. mcfarlane exaggerates of course it's comics but it looks cool at the same time...Kirby had bad anatomy, so did Ditko. This isn't the Fine Arts 101, its glorifed cartoons.

[RabidFerret]

If I remember correctly, Matt had a bit of a difficult time moving this one, and it changed hands for less than $50k...? And...with so much McSpidey on the market lately, I can't help feeling like something's got to give. I wouldn't expect this one to go much higher than when it sold last year.

 

Yeah but at least this one blows the Spider-Man #8 out of the water:) The two left hands cover is just awful! Arguably the worst cover of Todd's Spidey career.

 

I'm curious to see where it ends too. If the 328 and SM1 are outliers of the high end, what's reality? 317 got a decent price in that auction, but it's a Venom cover and it originally hammered much lower before bidding got reopened.

 

The ASM326 will get some solid attention in the next Heritage, as will SM2 - and from my perspective that one is what will set the bar for all the Spider-Man covers. SM2 should get the most, followed by SM4, and then SM8 a distant 3rd.

 

My biggest concern is more about the flooding that's happening, with this now being 10 covers popping up in 6 months and likely more of the Shamus Collection still to come. What's to say there won't be another 3 covers in the February Heritage Auction? Are there enough pockets?

 

And with the press for the 328 cover and the penchant 90s collectors have for bubbles, the speculating crowd is certainly starting to take a lot of notice...

[Kevin76]

Dan--back in 2004 when the 316 was offered for sale, I was told by an art dealer and friends that I was "retarded" for paying 50k for it. I also had to sell/trade 2 of my best pieces of artwork I had to acquire it. So, it really was an all in move both artwise and fiscally back then.

 

I'm still thankful to Will Gabriel for giving me 3-4 months to pay off the balance.

 

Thanks Will!!!!

 

Joe

 

I was asking Burkey about this cover around 1998, he said he knew who had it said for me to make him an offer. I told him I couldn't afford it

[RabidFerret]

I'm not saying Mcfarlane is the next Burne Hogarth, Liefeld sucks, plain and simple. Liefeld draws like he's blind. mcfarlane exaggerates of course it's comics but it looks cool at the same time...Kirby had bad anatomy, so did Ditko. This isn't the Fine Arts 101, its glorifed cartoons.

 

Liefeld was the bomb in the 90s when he appeared. People seem to forget what he brought to comics. Dynamic art, action oriented, gritty good guys, great energy, and a fresh style, and let's not forget the attitude and youth. Who from that era didn't idolize the 19 year old kid who broke in and became a superstar? And its not like Cable and Deadpool and Image Comics are all garbage...those are some serious contributions to the medium.

 

Now if you're talking his present day work...

[Brian Peck]

"Dynamic art, action orientated , gritty good guys, great energy, and a fresh style."

 

I couldn't stop laughing when I read that.

 

Rob's art is not dynamic!

His characters always look like they are constipated

Women stand on their tip toes and have a waist so thin they alway look like their back are broken.

 

He adds pouches, straps and kneepads. That is NOT a fresh style

 

He rarely draws feet. running joke is if his art have feet in it must be a fake Liefeld.

 

He doesn't have any sense of anatomy. He is the one who drew Captain America with tits.

 

Would take too long to list all his faults as an artist. I will let someone else do that (which is an internet classic):

 

The 40 Worst Rob Liefeld Drawings

http://www.progressiveboink.com/2012/4/21/2960508/worst-rob-liefeld-drawings

 

Here are 40 more:

http://www.progressiveboink.com/2012/6/14/3084348/the-second-40-worst-rob-liefeld-drawings

[Overthetopinc]

Actually I sold it for slightly over 50k. And by the way Kevin what the hell is wrong with buying more Bisleys?

Matthew Ellis

[JMG-migration]

He sold it a year ago to Maria Coppola... The cover was on caf with more than 100 comments !

 

 

Matt Ellis had this in his collection for years, No ida why he decided to get rid of it, prollly to buy Bisley paintings...Anyway, it'll go high but the ASM cover mcfarlane did always sell for more. Can't imagine the price of what the ASM 316 cover would sell for if it ever went to auction....1 million???

[Kevin76]

Actually I sold it for slightly over 50k. And by the way Kevin what the hell is wrong with buying more Bisleys?

Matthew Ellis

 

Nothing, I've just noticed more Bisley art in your collection while some of the Spideys were gone.

[Kevin76]

Liefeld is a very stiff artist. They are all posed like robots.

[RabidFerret]

"Dynamic art, action orientated , gritty good guys, great energy, and a fresh style."

 

I couldn't stop laughing when I read that.

 

Rob's art is not dynamic!

His characters always look like they are constipated

Women stand on their tip toes and have a waist so thin they alway look like their back are broken.

 

He adds pouches, straps and kneepads. That is NOT a fresh style

 

He rarely draws feet. running joke is if his art have feet in it must be a fake Liefeld.

 

He doesn't have any sense of anatomy. He is the one who drew Captain America with tits.

 

As I said, I was talking about when he first appeared, not present day. When he first appeared he was all of those things. You think it was a fluke that he was one of the most popular artists on the planet at the time? Just a world full of fools or something? Come on, give the guy the credit he deserves for his peak. Go flip through X-Force #1 and you'll see all of that dynamic energy.

 

I'm not disagreeing with anything about his work past those first few years. His Cap was awful and his art these days is stiff and phoned in and he doesn't appear to know what a background is. No dispute.

 

But some of what you're saying is just the repetitive garbage people love to point to. Feet? Seriously? How are Mike Mignola's feet? How are Jim Lee's feet? I could pull out 40 drawing by each of them with people on stick legs too. It's art. It's subjective and by its very nature is allowed to be as wonky as need be.

[AvengersFan]

 

 

Would take too long to list all his faults as an artist. I will let someone else do that (which is an internet classic):

 

The 40 Worst Rob Liefeld Drawings

http://www.progressiveboink.com/2012/4/21/2960508/worst-rob-liefeld-drawings

 

Here are 40 more:

http://www.progressiveboink.com/2012/6/14/3084348/the-second-40-worst-rob-liefeld-drawings

 

 

I was laughing out loud reading this. Thanks for the link.

Jay

[Dan.Adrians]

Biz rules! Anyway, it's good to here a little background about the cover from the source (not that it matters, because its a great cover). I also heard over 50k. Again, all these prices are from before the big HA auction, so price of the piece is moot. You have people sounding off on this thread saying "under 50" or "he had trouble getting rid of it" almost as if there was a hidden agenda. Of course, we are all entitled to our opinion, that's what makes the discussion fun. Thanks Matt!

[Bronty]

Boy I could be very wrong but I don't see this one getting big numbers at ALL. Lizards dislocated unhinged jaw is all I can look at. I'm bearish on this one.

 

Looks cool and who cares?

 

I'm trying to place the quote..... Let's see.... Let's see...... How To Draw the Rob Liefeld way, chapter 1?

 

I'm not saying Mcfarlane is the next Burne Hogarth, Liefeld sucks, plain and simple. Liefeld draws like he's blind. mcfarlane exaggerates of course it's comics but it looks cool at the same time...Kirby had bad anatomy, so did Ditko. This isn't the Fine Arts 101, its glorifed cartoons.

 

Obviously. But that doesn't mean we can't critique it when something looks off or appreciate it when something looks great.

[NelsonAI]

Please stay on topic - you're killing the thread. Go back to lurking.

Thanks.

 

****************************************************************************************

While I'm not in the market for a McFarlane cover, I do expect to see some panic buying from speculators given the last Heritage auction.

 

I don't really see the new money in the field coming from outsiders (non comic book fans). I think the new buyers are from existing comic book collectors and dealers who are now finally making the transition into art.

 

It's also the "rule of 25" coming into play as some have already mentioned.

 

Btw - I also think ASM 316 is hands down McFarlane's best cover. I became friends with Joe after he bought the cover but I thought the number was high at the time.

 

We'll know soon enough at these November auctions if McFarlane fever continues.

 

I certainly prefer the 2 Lizard covers, (the other cover is on Heritage), over the ASM 328 cover but everyone is different. I don't think anyone is expecting hammer prices in the $600K range but $100K is probable given his track record.

 

Cheers!

N.

[delekkerste]

There was a time when a Mattingly Rookie card wasn't that much cheaper than a Mantle high end card...that market eventually corrected itself.

 

The market corrected itself by Mattingly prices going down, no? I don't know where prices are now, but I just bought a Topps Ripken PSA 9 rookie and a Topps Traded Ripken PSA 8 rookie (would imagine prices are not too dissimilar to Mattingly) for basically pocket change. I was also the underbidder on a PSA 8 Mantle rookie not long ago; prices haven't really moved much in years.

 

Like yourself, Rob, I'm one of those collectors that appreciates the older, quality non-Marvel/DC classics. Like I pointed out elsewhere, though, this material has been grossly lagging mainstream Marvel superhero art (the good stuff, I mean) over the past 25 years. Yeah, good Herriman KK Sundays are fetching $20K+ now, but look where the minimum bids were on those ancient listings that Terry posted - many were already in the mid-4 figure range, so $20K+ now represents a minuscule fraction of the appreciation good Marvel art has enjoyed since then - a trend that has now persisted for 25-30 years and looks to be a secular phenomenon. BTW, is the KK stuff really that rare? There must be over a thousand Sundays that were created and many thousands of dailies...were a significant portion destroyed? I'm not saying that there won't always be people who seek out and stumble onto the great classics, but it really seems like the material that has fared best has been the mainstream stuff that keeps getting reinvented and staying in the public eye over the decades.

 

As for the Spidey #4 cover, I personally like it (not enough to buy it, though), even if it is a bit busy. That said, I don't see why it should sell for 6-figures when (a) it's not fresh to market, (b) it's not ASM, © it sold for half that not long ago, (d) that great Marvel Tales cover hammered for less than $50K in the last sale, and (e) supply is coming out in droves and taking buyers out of the market.

[Kevin76]

Supply is coming out in droves?

 

Really, just cause someone is selling off their collection doesn't mean its coming out in droves. 10 pieces in a few months is nothing, Things will return to "normal" in the Mcfarlane market soon enough. Most people can't afford any of it anyway.