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Started by MarkDAnderson,

27,088 posts in this topic

Demo-migration

Demo-migration

Posted
Posted
Not to stir up the pot further, but a little bird pointed me in the direction of this most recent change. Not sure if it has been addressed before or not.

 

"CGC guarantees that a comic book encapsulated in a CGC holder is authentic and has been inspected by at least two professionals."

Am I reading too much into this and the 2 "professionals" no longer need to be graders or is the wording CGC used poor.

 

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A-DONIS

A-DONIS

Posted
Posted
Ok I just checked me dealer's account and there are books that have been scheduled for grading since the first week of December....moderns.

 

Fast Track or regular service?

 

Regular service, unfortunately.

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Transplant

Transplant

Posted
Posted
You're missing my point. Allowing people access to the grade prior to the grade being finalized has always been a bad idea - removing that option was a smart business move from CGC's side and should have been done years ago.

 

So when is the grade "finalized" and "final" and not subject to change? The way I read the following 2 sections together, a book is graded after the final grader examines it and, only then, it will head to be encapsulated. Further, being graded is a precursor to being marked "shipped/safe" according to the website.

 

After being examined by a restoration detection professional, the comic books are placed in barcoded mylar sleeves, and separated from their original invoice. This step is taken to ensure that graders do not know whose books they are grading, as a further guarantee of impartiality.

 

The book’s pages are then counted and any peculiarities or flaws that may affect a book’s grade are entered into the computer. Some examples of this would be “a tear on third page,” “a corner crease – does not break color,” “a ¼” inch spine split,” and so forth. When the grader examines the comic, he is not able to see a previously assigned grade, so as to not influence his own evaluation. After determining his own grade for the comic, he can then view the Grader Notes entered by a previous grader, and he may add to this commentary if he believes more remarks are in order.

 

Another restoration check is performed before assigning a grade. If all grades are in agreement or are very close, the book will be assigned a final grade. If there is disagreement among the graders, there will be a discussion with other graders until a final determination is made. The book is then forwarded to the Encapsulation Department for sealing.

 

Graded

Books have been graded and are currently going through the encapsulation process. This is when the appropriate holder size is selected and each book is carefully encased. Once this is complete, each comic will enter into the quality control process before it will be shipped.

The quality control process is when graded and encapsulated comics are re-examined by a grader to make certain that their labels are correct for both the grade and its accompanying descriptive information. He also inspects each comic for any major flaws on its holder.

 

Shipped/Safe

Comics have been inspected and approved in Quality Control, photographed in our imaging department if applicable and carefully packaged and shipped via your chosen method of delivery (or are being held for additional shipments). Grades are now available for viewing online, and the package is on its way back to you. Grades are available online once the books are marked with the status "Shipped".

 

It used to be that you could see your grades once a book was marked graded. The way I read the above, nothing should change from when something is marked "Graded" b/c the books have been graded and are headed to be slabbed.

 

This is just another example of decreasing any transparency. Did they do it b/c it was a hassle? B/c they are training new graders? B/c they were worried about showing when damage happened? Who knows. There's no information coming out of Sarasota and it's just another in a long line of "changes" about which no CGC rep speaks or answers questions.

 

Read the text you quoted:

 

"Grades are available online once the books are marked with the status "Shipped"."

 

Nowhere does it say that the grades are supposed to be available when the books are marked "scheduled for grading" or "graded" - and as the QC process happens after the books have been graded, it makes zero sense to hand out the grades till the books have actually been finalized (which doesn't happen till they hit shipped/safe).

 

What I don't understand is why you, instead of posting the same speculations again & again in thread after thread, didn't just pick up the phone, call CGC and ask them directly about this latest change? I did ... they said it was a mistake to ever have allowed people access to grades prior to the books being finalized. That it created confusion amongst new submitters and that it had gotten to be an even bigger headache ever since they started training new graders.

 

My experience with CGC is that every time there's been a problem with a book where it was obvious that something went wrong whilst it was in the hands of CGC, CGC took care of it & made me right. If you choose to believe otherwise, that's your prerogative, but I have to say that I'm not really a fan of the tinfoil-hat-wearing Transplant that sees a giant conspiracy in every single decision made by CGC.

 

Mike, I don't see it as tinfoil hat wearing. Joey makes an excellent post which provides real insight into why I post the things I do. I won't rehash it here except to say that CGC just keeps taking away things, with no communication.

 

As for the specifics of what I'm alleging, I've had people personally relay stories to me of books damaged at CGC. Some have been taken care of. Others receive a, "Prove it" response. My point here is that the book has to be considered "graded" at some point and that, after that point, any lowering of the grade is on the hands of CGC's handling: in the grading, encapsulating, shipping, whenever.

 

I shouldn't have to call CGC when questions have been presented here on the boards that impact every customer. I don't have any books in the queue at the moment, so I'm not directly impacted. But that doesn't mean that boardies can't discuss the issues.

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Pirate

Pirate

Posted
Posted
Ok I just checked me dealer's account and there are books that have been scheduled for grading since the first week of December....moderns.

 

+1

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Jay1982

Jay1982

Posted
Posted

Called in today to verify that my modern submission that was submitted on 12/23 was indeed fast tracked. Was pleasently surprised that they told me it shipped today. I thought it was only going to be graded sometime next week. Got my grades as well. Some I am happy with; others are meh. Looking forward to seeing them in hand to properly evaluate the quality of grades.

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Bomber-Bob

Bomber-Bob

Posted
Posted
Well 15 day standard is behind, subbed 12/17 no grades and not scheduled for grading

 

I only count 11 business days between 12/17 and today, 1/7 inclusive, and that is assuming the 12/17 was the arrival date, not shipment date. I would assume you will see action toward the end of this week.

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Demo-migration

Demo-migration

Posted
Posted
You're missing my point. Allowing people access to the grade prior to the grade being finalized has always been a bad idea - removing that option was a smart business move from CGC's side and should have been done years ago.

 

So when is the grade "finalized" and "final" and not subject to change? The way I read the following 2 sections together, a book is graded after the final grader examines it and, only then, it will head to be encapsulated. Further, being graded is a precursor to being marked "shipped/safe" according to the website.

 

After being examined by a restoration detection professional, the comic books are placed in barcoded mylar sleeves, and separated from their original invoice. This step is taken to ensure that graders do not know whose books they are grading, as a further guarantee of impartiality.

 

The book’s pages are then counted and any peculiarities or flaws that may affect a book’s grade are entered into the computer. Some examples of this would be “a tear on third page,” “a corner crease – does not break color,” “a ¼” inch spine split,” and so forth. When the grader examines the comic, he is not able to see a previously assigned grade, so as to not influence his own evaluation. After determining his own grade for the comic, he can then view the Grader Notes entered by a previous grader, and he may add to this commentary if he believes more remarks are in order.

 

Another restoration check is performed before assigning a grade. If all grades are in agreement or are very close, the book will be assigned a final grade. If there is disagreement among the graders, there will be a discussion with other graders until a final determination is made. The book is then forwarded to the Encapsulation Department for sealing.

 

Graded

Books have been graded and are currently going through the encapsulation process. This is when the appropriate holder size is selected and each book is carefully encased. Once this is complete, each comic will enter into the quality control process before it will be shipped.

The quality control process is when graded and encapsulated comics are re-examined by a grader to make certain that their labels are correct for both the grade and its accompanying descriptive information. He also inspects each comic for any major flaws on its holder.

 

Shipped/Safe

Comics have been inspected and approved in Quality Control, photographed in our imaging department if applicable and carefully packaged and shipped via your chosen method of delivery (or are being held for additional shipments). Grades are now available for viewing online, and the package is on its way back to you. Grades are available online once the books are marked with the status "Shipped".

 

It used to be that you could see your grades once a book was marked graded. The way I read the above, nothing should change from when something is marked "Graded" b/c the books have been graded and are headed to be slabbed.

 

This is just another example of decreasing any transparency. Did they do it b/c it was a hassle? B/c they are training new graders? B/c they were worried about showing when damage happened? Who knows. There's no information coming out of Sarasota and it's just another in a long line of "changes" about which no CGC rep speaks or answers questions.

 

Read the text you quoted:

 

"Grades are available online once the books are marked with the status "Shipped"."

 

Nowhere does it say that the grades are supposed to be available when the books are marked "scheduled for grading" or "graded" - and as the QC process happens after the books have been graded, it makes zero sense to hand out the grades till the books have actually been finalized (which doesn't happen till they hit shipped/safe).

 

What I don't understand is why you, instead of posting the same speculations again & again in thread after thread, didn't just pick up the phone, call CGC and ask them directly about this latest change? I did ... they said it was a mistake to ever have allowed people access to grades prior to the books being finalized. That it created confusion amongst new submitters and that it had gotten to be an even bigger headache ever since they started training new graders.

 

My experience with CGC is that every time there's been a problem with a book where it was obvious that something went wrong whilst it was in the hands of CGC, CGC took care of it & made me right. If you choose to believe otherwise, that's your prerogative, but I have to say that I'm not really a fan of the tinfoil-hat-wearing Transplant that sees a giant conspiracy in every single decision made by CGC.

 

Mike, I don't see it as tinfoil hat wearing. Joey makes an excellent post which provides real insight into why I post the things I do. I won't rehash it here except to say that CGC just keeps taking away things, with no communication.

 

And this is the way CGC has been doing business since this board started up 10 years ago. How many of CGC's new policies were first reported here by a hobbyist b/c they called up and accidentally found out about it? How many things had to be "discovered" by hobbyists first before CGC would even admit they knew what we were talking about? Probably be easier/quicker to list the things CGC did report proactively than not.

How long does something have to go on before it's no longer a nutty conspiracy theory?

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joeypost

joeypost

Posted
Posted
You're missing my point. Allowing people access to the grade prior to the grade being finalized has always been a bad idea - removing that option was a smart business move from CGC's side and should have been done years ago.

 

So when is the grade "finalized" and "final" and not subject to change? The way I read the following 2 sections together, a book is graded after the final grader examines it and, only then, it will head to be encapsulated. Further, being graded is a precursor to being marked "shipped/safe" according to the website.

 

After being examined by a restoration detection professional, the comic books are placed in barcoded mylar sleeves, and separated from their original invoice. This step is taken to ensure that graders do not know whose books they are grading, as a further guarantee of impartiality.

 

The book’s pages are then counted and any peculiarities or flaws that may affect a book’s grade are entered into the computer. Some examples of this would be “a tear on third page,” “a corner crease – does not break color,” “a ¼” inch spine split,” and so forth. When the grader examines the comic, he is not able to see a previously assigned grade, so as to not influence his own evaluation. After determining his own grade for the comic, he can then view the Grader Notes entered by a previous grader, and he may add to this commentary if he believes more remarks are in order.

 

Another restoration check is performed before assigning a grade. If all grades are in agreement or are very close, the book will be assigned a final grade. If there is disagreement among the graders, there will be a discussion with other graders until a final determination is made. The book is then forwarded to the Encapsulation Department for sealing.

 

Graded

Books have been graded and are currently going through the encapsulation process. This is when the appropriate holder size is selected and each book is carefully encased. Once this is complete, each comic will enter into the quality control process before it will be shipped.

The quality control process is when graded and encapsulated comics are re-examined by a grader to make certain that their labels are correct for both the grade and its accompanying descriptive information. He also inspects each comic for any major flaws on its holder.

 

Shipped/Safe

Comics have been inspected and approved in Quality Control, photographed in our imaging department if applicable and carefully packaged and shipped via your chosen method of delivery (or are being held for additional shipments). Grades are now available for viewing online, and the package is on its way back to you. Grades are available online once the books are marked with the status "Shipped".

 

It used to be that you could see your grades once a book was marked graded. The way I read the above, nothing should change from when something is marked "Graded" b/c the books have been graded and are headed to be slabbed.

 

This is just another example of decreasing any transparency. Did they do it b/c it was a hassle? B/c they are training new graders? B/c they were worried about showing when damage happened? Who knows. There's no information coming out of Sarasota and it's just another in a long line of "changes" about which no CGC rep speaks or answers questions.

 

Read the text you quoted:

 

"Grades are available online once the books are marked with the status "Shipped"."

 

Nowhere does it say that the grades are supposed to be available when the books are marked "scheduled for grading" or "graded" - and as the QC process happens after the books have been graded, it makes zero sense to hand out the grades till the books have actually been finalized (which doesn't happen till they hit shipped/safe).

 

What I don't understand is why you, instead of posting the same speculations again & again in thread after thread, didn't just pick up the phone, call CGC and ask them directly about this latest change? I did ... they said it was a mistake to ever have allowed people access to grades prior to the books being finalized. That it created confusion amongst new submitters and that it had gotten to be an even bigger headache ever since they started training new graders.

 

My experience with CGC is that every time there's been a problem with a book where it was obvious that something went wrong whilst it was in the hands of CGC, CGC took care of it & made me right. If you choose to believe otherwise, that's your prerogative, but I have to say that I'm not really a fan of the tinfoil-hat-wearing Transplant that sees a giant conspiracy in every single decision made by CGC.

 

Mike, I don't see it as tinfoil hat wearing. Joey makes an excellent post which provides real insight into why I post the things I do. I won't rehash it here except to say that CGC just keeps taking away things, with no communication.

 

And this is the way CGC has been doing business since this board started up 10 years ago. How many of CGC's new policies were first reported here by a hobbyist b/c they called up and accidentally found out about it? How many things had to be "discovered" by hobbyists first before CGC would even admit they knew what we were talking about? Probably be easier/quicker to list the things CGC did report proactively than not.

How long does something have to go on before it's no longer a nutty conspiracy theory?

 

I think the point had more to do with bad business practices compared to conspiracy theories. At least that was the intent of my posting.

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mschmidt

mschmidt

Posted
Posted
You're missing my point. Allowing people access to the grade prior to the grade being finalized has always been a bad idea - removing that option was a smart business move from CGC's side and should have been done years ago.

 

So when is the grade "finalized" and "final" and not subject to change? The way I read the following 2 sections together, a book is graded after the final grader examines it and, only then, it will head to be encapsulated. Further, being graded is a precursor to being marked "shipped/safe" according to the website.

 

After being examined by a restoration detection professional, the comic books are placed in barcoded mylar sleeves, and separated from their original invoice. This step is taken to ensure that graders do not know whose books they are grading, as a further guarantee of impartiality.

 

The book’s pages are then counted and any peculiarities or flaws that may affect a book’s grade are entered into the computer. Some examples of this would be “a tear on third page,” “a corner crease – does not break color,” “a ¼” inch spine split,” and so forth. When the grader examines the comic, he is not able to see a previously assigned grade, so as to not influence his own evaluation. After determining his own grade for the comic, he can then view the Grader Notes entered by a previous grader, and he may add to this commentary if he believes more remarks are in order.

 

Another restoration check is performed before assigning a grade. If all grades are in agreement or are very close, the book will be assigned a final grade. If there is disagreement among the graders, there will be a discussion with other graders until a final determination is made. The book is then forwarded to the Encapsulation Department for sealing.

 

Graded

Books have been graded and are currently going through the encapsulation process. This is when the appropriate holder size is selected and each book is carefully encased. Once this is complete, each comic will enter into the quality control process before it will be shipped.

The quality control process is when graded and encapsulated comics are re-examined by a grader to make certain that their labels are correct for both the grade and its accompanying descriptive information. He also inspects each comic for any major flaws on its holder.

 

Shipped/Safe

Comics have been inspected and approved in Quality Control, photographed in our imaging department if applicable and carefully packaged and shipped via your chosen method of delivery (or are being held for additional shipments). Grades are now available for viewing online, and the package is on its way back to you. Grades are available online once the books are marked with the status "Shipped".

 

It used to be that you could see your grades once a book was marked graded. The way I read the above, nothing should change from when something is marked "Graded" b/c the books have been graded and are headed to be slabbed.

 

This is just another example of decreasing any transparency. Did they do it b/c it was a hassle? B/c they are training new graders? B/c they were worried about showing when damage happened? Who knows. There's no information coming out of Sarasota and it's just another in a long line of "changes" about which no CGC rep speaks or answers questions.

 

Read the text you quoted:

 

"Grades are available online once the books are marked with the status "Shipped"."

 

Nowhere does it say that the grades are supposed to be available when the books are marked "scheduled for grading" or "graded" - and as the QC process happens after the books have been graded, it makes zero sense to hand out the grades till the books have actually been finalized (which doesn't happen till they hit shipped/safe).

 

What I don't understand is why you, instead of posting the same speculations again & again in thread after thread, didn't just pick up the phone, call CGC and ask them directly about this latest change? I did ... they said it was a mistake to ever have allowed people access to grades prior to the books being finalized. That it created confusion amongst new submitters and that it had gotten to be an even bigger headache ever since they started training new graders.

 

My experience with CGC is that every time there's been a problem with a book where it was obvious that something went wrong whilst it was in the hands of CGC, CGC took care of it & made me right. If you choose to believe otherwise, that's your prerogative, but I have to say that I'm not really a fan of the tinfoil-hat-wearing Transplant that sees a giant conspiracy in every single decision made by CGC.

 

Mike, I don't see it as tinfoil hat wearing. Joey makes an excellent post which provides real insight into why I post the things I do. I won't rehash it here except to say that CGC just keeps taking away things, with no communication.

 

And this is the way CGC has been doing business since this board started up 10 years ago. How many of CGC's new policies were first reported here by a hobbyist b/c they called up and accidentally found out about it? How many things had to be "discovered" by hobbyists first before CGC would even admit they knew what we were talking about? Probably be easier/quicker to list the things CGC did report proactively than not.

How long does something have to go on before it's no longer a nutty conspiracy theory?

 

I think the point had more to do with bad business practices compared to conspiracy theories. At least that was the intent of my posting.

 

There's no question CGC doesn't excel at communicating changes, but if I look at your list, Joey, a lot of those items were posted about both here and on CGC's own site prior to them taking effect - the price increases, the changes to the SS program, the charging for graders' notes, the $5 invoice fee, etc.

 

One may not like CGC increasing their prices, but you can't say that they didn't give us notice that they were going to do so.

 

And it's not all bad either - the changes to the SS program made it much more of a level playing field for anybody who enjoys SS books. And whilst I don't personally care one way or the other about them acquiring Classics Inc and offering up pressing as a service, it is an addition that wasn't available previously.

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