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Does pressing really matter???

Started by Pook,

60 posts in this topic

MrBedrock

MrBedrock

Posted
Posted

A differing viewpoint - Pressing shouldn't be considered restoration. Nothing has been physically added to the book to alter its structure. Nothing has been taken away from the book to alter its integrity. Essentially nothing pertaining to the original material of the paper has changed, other than that it is flatter.

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skypinkblu

skypinkblu

Posted
Posted
A differing viewpoint - Pressing shouldn't be considered restoration. Nothing has been physically added to the book to alter its structure. Nothing has been taken away from the book to alter its integrity. Essentially nothing pertaining to the original material of the paper has changed, other than that it is flatter.

 

Don't you have to add heat and or moisture or can you dry/cold press?

 

Other than ironing a book that had massive curls about 10 years ago, I've never tried it myself, so I'm curious (and I used an iron;) but it didn't work, lol.

 

I was also wondering, if the glue fell off a square-bound, and you put it back (as new glue) how does that work?...the glue was there originally.

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MrBedrock

MrBedrock

Posted
Posted
A differing viewpoint - Pressing shouldn't be considered restoration. Nothing has been physically added to the book to alter its structure. Nothing has been taken away from the book to alter its integrity. Essentially nothing pertaining to the original material of the paper has changed, other than that it is flatter.

 

Don't you have to add heat and or moisture or can you dry/cold press?

 

Adding heat or moisture is not mandatory. But yes, generally moisture is used at low levels to relax the paper. Then heat is used at low levels with the press to flatten the paper. But heat and/ or moisture do not bond with the paper fiber. So even in the cases where heat or moisture is added to the process they are not adhering to the book in any way that alters the structure of the paper fibers in any way different from naturally occurring climate changes the paper would experience in its lifetime. If excess moisture in used it will dampen and damage the paper and that would detectable and gradeable (a new word! :idea: ) . If excess heat is used the paper would cook and that is detectable and gradable.

 

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Mike's Rack

Mike's Rack

Posted
Posted
I also figure that since I am a new member, I should probably use the Search function to read up on other posts from the past that have to do with the topic I am interested in.

That way, if I do decide to create a new thread on that topic, I will at least be trying to add (or solicit) some new type of info within that area (or a new slant on it) that has not been heavily discussed before.

Just saying ...

(Absolutely no offense meant to any one at all, so please do not take it).

 

Use Google and type CGC Boards or Collector Boards after the search terms --- it's far better than using the search engine as designed here. :sumo:

+1,000,000
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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
A differing viewpoint - Pressing shouldn't be considered restoration. Nothing has been physically added to the book to alter its structure. Nothing has been taken away from the book to alter its integrity. Essentially nothing pertaining to the original material of the paper has changed, other than that it is flatter.

 

Agreed.

 

The correct environment (humidity and pressure) can cause a book to naturally press itself flat. If you look for it, you see it all the time with older Silver Age books where they are flat, right across the entire book even though they were obviously covered with hard, colour breaking creases at some point.

 

The discussions regarding whether pressing is potentially bad for a book or not completely dismiss the fact that all comics are heated, humidified and pressed during the printing process and almost invariably during their lifetimes as they are

 

a) stored in humid environments at some point unless you take them from the publisher and put them directly into a climate controlled environment

b) stored in hot environments where a car or a Fed Ex truck cargo area can match or exceed temperatures of a dry mount press used to press comics

 

 

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AtlasFan

AtlasFan

Posted
Posted
A differing viewpoint - Pressing shouldn't be considered restoration. Nothing has been physically added to the book to alter its structure. Nothing has been taken away from the book to alter its integrity. Essentially nothing pertaining to the original material of the paper has changed, other than that it is flatter.

 

Don't you have to add heat and or moisture or can you dry/cold press?

 

Adding heat or moisture is not mandatory. But yes, generally moisture is used at low levels to relax the paper. Then heat is used at low levels with the press to flatten the paper. But heat and/ or moisture do not bond with the paper fiber. So even in the cases where heat or moisture is added to the process they are not adhering to the book in any way that alters the structure of the paper fibers in any way different from naturally occurring climate changes the paper would experience in its lifetime. If excess moisture in used it will dampen and damage the paper and that would detectable and gradeable (a new word! :idea: ) . If excess heat is used the paper would cook and that is detectable and gradable.

 

hm. I always thought that "professional" pressing with heat/moisture was considered totally undetectable by CGC -- and that was the reason why pressing is not referenced on the label or in the grader's notes.

 

How could one detect if a book was pressed -- is there a method that is tried and true?

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skypinkblu

skypinkblu

Posted
Posted

 

 

It might not be detectable if just a tiny bit was done, but I've certainly received books I could tell were pressed and I'm not a grading genius.

 

Personally, I think it's restoration, but a mild form that should just be disclosed. Then again, I don't hate most restoration, just think it should be disclosed.

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MrBedrock

MrBedrock

Posted
Posted
A differing viewpoint - Pressing shouldn't be considered restoration. Nothing has been physically added to the book to alter its structure. Nothing has been taken away from the book to alter its integrity. Essentially nothing pertaining to the original material of the paper has changed, other than that it is flatter.

 

Don't you have to add heat and or moisture or can you dry/cold press?

 

Adding heat or moisture is not mandatory. But yes, generally moisture is used at low levels to relax the paper. Then heat is used at low levels with the press to flatten the paper. But heat and/ or moisture do not bond with the paper fiber. So even in the cases where heat or moisture is added to the process they are not adhering to the book in any way that alters the structure of the paper fibers in any way different from naturally occurring climate changes the paper would experience in its lifetime. If excess moisture in used it will dampen and damage the paper and that would detectable and gradeable (a new word! :idea: ) . If excess heat is used the paper would cook and that is detectable and gradable.

 

hm. I always thought that "professional" pressing with heat/moisture was considered totally undetectable by CGC -- and that was the reason why pressing is not referenced on the label or in the grader's notes.

 

How could one detect if a book was pressed -- is there a method that is tried and true?

Never said pressing was detectable. But the damage done by a bad pressing job is certainly detectable.

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joeypost

joeypost

Posted
Posted
A differing viewpoint - Pressing shouldn't be considered restoration. Nothing has been physically added to the book to alter its structure. Nothing has been taken away from the book to alter its integrity. Essentially nothing pertaining to the original material of the paper has changed, other than that it is flatter.

 

Don't you have to add heat and or moisture or can you dry/cold press?

 

Adding heat or moisture is not mandatory. But yes, generally moisture is used at low levels to relax the paper. Then heat is used at low levels with the press to flatten the paper. But heat and/ or moisture do not bond with the paper fiber. So even in the cases where heat or moisture is added to the process they are not adhering to the book in any way that alters the structure of the paper fibers in any way different from naturally occurring climate changes the paper would experience in its lifetime. If excess moisture in used it will dampen and damage the paper and that would detectable and gradeable (a new word! :idea: ) . If excess heat is used the paper would cook and that is detectable and gradable.

 

hm. I always thought that "professional" pressing with heat/moisture was considered totally undetectable by CGC -- and that was the reason why pressing is not referenced on the label or in the grader's notes.

 

How could one detect if a book was pressed -- is there a method that is tried and true?

Never said pressing was detectable. But the damage done by a bad pressing job is certainly detectable.

(thumbs u
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Peter Loves Gwen

Peter Loves Gwen

Posted
Posted
A differing viewpoint - Pressing shouldn't be considered restoration. Nothing has been physically added to the book to alter its structure. Nothing has been taken away from the book to alter its integrity. Essentially nothing pertaining to the original material of the paper has changed, other than that it is flatter.

 

Agreed.

 

The correct environment (humidity and pressure) can cause a book to naturally press itself flat. If you look for it, you see it all the time with older Silver Age books where they are flat, right across the entire book even though they were obviously covered with hard, colour breaking creases at some point.

 

The discussions regarding whether pressing is potentially bad for a book or not completely dismiss the fact that all comics are heated, humidified and pressed during the printing process and almost invariably during their lifetimes as they are

 

a) stored in humid environments at some point unless you take them from the publisher and put them directly into a climate controlled environment

b) stored in hot environments where a car or a Fed Ex truck cargo area can match or exceed temperatures of a dry mount press used to press comics

 

 

That's how I see it, and I agree.

 

One more thought though, during the same normal production process, all comics are trimmed. The manufacturer doesn't cut them all perfectly either, just think of all the comics you see that have non squared corners. I don't mind trimming except that it's always done improperly or poorly. Too much is always cut off, and that gets into the pages which are hardly ever in need of any trimming.

 

I think that practice has slowed down a little, but I wish whoever is doing it would not cut so much off. Some trivial amount like 1/16" would not affect inner pages on older books which have more overlap than that. But people who do those kinds of things never think much about it, they just whack it fast and deep to make it look like new.

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DrWatson

DrWatson

Posted
Posted
A differing viewpoint - Pressing shouldn't be considered restoration. Nothing has been physically added to the book to alter its structure. Nothing has been taken away from the book to alter its integrity. Essentially nothing pertaining to the original material of the paper has changed, other than that it is flatter.

 

Don't you have to add heat and or moisture or can you dry/cold press?

 

Other than ironing a book that had massive curls about 10 years ago, I've never tried it myself, so I'm curious (and I used an iron;) but it didn't work, lol.

 

I was also wondering, if the glue fell off a square-bound, and you put it back (as new glue) how does that work?...the glue was there originally.

Glue is glue is glue. Glued on covers are just that, glued on.

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skypinkblu

skypinkblu

Posted
Posted
A differing viewpoint - Pressing shouldn't be considered restoration. Nothing has been physically added to the book to alter its structure. Nothing has been taken away from the book to alter its integrity. Essentially nothing pertaining to the original material of the paper has changed, other than that it is flatter.

 

Don't you have to add heat and or moisture or can you dry/cold press?

 

Other than ironing a book that had massive curls about 10 years ago, I've never tried it myself, so I'm curious (and I used an iron;) but it didn't work, lol.

 

I was also wondering, if the glue fell off a square-bound, and you put it back (as new glue) how does that work?...the glue was there originally.

Glue is glue is glue. Glued on covers are just that, glued on.

 

Thanks:) I no longer own the one I was thinking of gluing back on, but I've always been curious:)

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namisgr

namisgr

Posted
Posted

Still another viewpoint. It doesn't matter whether you call pressing a form of restoration or not. It's pressing.

 

Pressing does take away from the original state - by flattening a book, the spine is crushed and no longer has its original roundness, and the air that a fresh-off-the-stand comic has is squeezed out, flattening the area adjacent to the spine.

 

On some pressings, the cover will shift perceptibly in relation to the staples, in some cases causing the staples to become very slightly impacted, and in others causing very small fuzzy spots where the cover has shifted very slightly away from the staples. In other cases when a prominent overhang has been flattened, a perceptible thin horizontal line is left where the cover used to be bent down.

 

It's not something that can be detected all of the time, but it sure can be detected some of the time, even if the pressing is done "well".

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sufunk

sufunk

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Posted
My only fear of pressing is that in 10-20 years some books could have potentially been pressed 10+ times and they will start to look like krap.

 

I'm pretty sure there are already books that have been pressed 10+ times and are looking like hm

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Silver Surfer

Silver Surfer

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Posted
My only fear of pressing is that in 10-20 years some books could have potentially been pressed 10+ times and they will start to look like krap.

 

I'm pretty sure there are already books that have been pressed 10+ times and are looking like hm

 

Since I have cracked out 95% of my SA slabs I can honestly say that some of them are starting to look like pancakes. Also, I think poor pressing jobs have resulted in a lot of stress marks around the staples which is a shame because they stick out like sore thumbs.

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Peter Loves Gwen

Peter Loves Gwen

Posted
Posted
Still another viewpoint. It doesn't matter whether you call pressing a form of restoration or not. It's pressing.

 

Pressing does take away from the original state - by flattening a book, the spine is crushed and no longer has its original roundness, and the air that a fresh-off-the-stand comic has is squeezed out, flattening the area adjacent to the spine.

 

On some pressings, the cover will shift perceptibly in relation to the staples, in some cases causing the staples to become very slightly impacted, and in others causing very small fuzzy spots where the cover has shifted very slightly away from the staples. In other cases when a prominent overhang has been flattened, a perceptible thin horizontal line is left where the cover used to be bent down.

 

It's not something that can be detected all of the time, but it sure can be detected some of the time, even if the pressing is done "well".

 

My only fear of pressing is that in 10-20 years some books could have potentially been pressed 10+ times and they will start to look like krap.

 

I'm pretty sure there are already books that have been pressed 10+ times and are looking like hm

 

Since I have cracked out 95% of my SA slabs I can honestly say that some of them are starting to look like pancakes. Also, I think poor pressing jobs have resulted in a lot of stress marks around the staples which is a shame because they stick out like sore thumbs.

 

 

Interesting, this line of thought brings the question to mind, what does all of that look like? This invites the posting of any and all examples.

 

I think pictures would help a lot to illuminate the potential problems of pressing comics. "A picture is worth a thousand words."

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namisgr

namisgr

Posted
Posted

 

Interesting, this line of thought brings the question to mind, what does all of that look like? This invites the posting of any and all examples.

 

I think pictures would help a lot to illuminate the potential problems of pressing comics. "A picture is worth a thousand words."

 

Horizontal overhang line AND impacted staple

 

http://www.wwcomics.com/comicdetail.asp?Product_ID=AmazingSpider-Man_34_87379

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