question about rips and grades

[Open]

**I apologies in advance for not being able to upload a picture at this time**

 

I recently started collecting CGC comics, and in fact I just received my first GCG in the mail several days ago.

 

The comic I received was graded 9.8 and while I have not taken it out of the case (honestly don't plan to) I noticed the smallest, literally the smallest tip of the top right corner of the cover missing (looks like there was a very small rip). Now granted it looks like nothing else is wrong with the book, but I though that having even the smallest rip or piece missing was a big no no score wise.

 

My question is how big does a rip have to be, or in this case how much of the comic needs to be missing before the grade is effected.

[Tony S]

**I apologies in advance for not being able to upload a picture at this time**

 

I recently started collecting CGC comics, and in fact I just received my first GCG in the mail several days ago.

 

The comic I received was graded 9.8 and while I have not taken it out of the case (honestly don't plan to) I noticed the smallest, literally the smallest tip of the top right corner of the cover missing (looks like there was a very small rip). Now granted it looks like nothing else is wrong with the book, but I though that having even the smallest rip or piece missing was a big no no score wise.

 

My question is how big does a rip have to be, or in this case how much of the comic needs to be missing before the grade is effected.

 

I can't answer your question for certain. But a question: Are you sure the tiny piece of the corner you speak of is actually gone? Sometimes they just bend over a little bit and through the holder it is hard to tell the difference.

 

Only other observation I'd offer is that CGC doesn't treat production defects the same way they treat defects that occur from handling or wear. If the book was manufactured without a perfect pointed tip, they might not grade down as a result.

 

Suggest you post up a scan/picture

[Open]

I can't answer your question for certain. But a question: Are you sure the tiny piece of the corner you speak of is actually gone? Sometimes they just bend over a little bit and through the holder it is hard to tell the difference.

I would say I am 90% sure. Its hard to tell because of the encasement, but I would be surprised if it was a bend or fold.

 

Only other observation I'd offer is that CGC doesn't treat production defects the same way they treat defects that occur from handling or wear. If the book was manufactured without a perfect pointed tip, they might not grade down as a result.

This might possibly be what happened. How would I go about figuring out if that was the case?

 

If its any help the book is Batman 404. Batman Year One has always been in my top 5 favorite modern Batman stories.

 

Suggest you post up a scan/picture

I don't currently have a scanner, but I hope to have pictures uploaded at some point.

 

without a perfect pointed tip

"Without a perfect pointed tip", is probably the best way to explain what I am seeing. I was surprised to see a high graded book with that defect, but like I said the rest of the book looks perfect.

[Open]

I would still like to know how to tell if a defect is a production defect?

 

Is it just knowing the history of the book? I tried searching online, but could not find much information.

[crazyhips]

Could of happened during the slabbing process. I have a Highgrade watchmen comic in the slab that has the sharp corner almost completely detached and hanging.

[Tony S]

I would still like to know how to tell if a defect is a production defect?

 

Is it just knowing the history of the book? I tried searching online, but could not find much information.

 

Crazyhips offers another possible explanation. Encapsulation is the final step in grading so if it got a 9.8 but then in the encapsulation process perhaps a teensy tiny piece of a corner got bent or came lose. The grading is already done.

 

But as to your specific question here - I think the reason no one here is answering your question is because there is no simple, for sure answer. The graders at CGC are looking at books all day long so they get pretty proficient at determining what is a defect related to the production of the book and what is from handling. It could well be a "know it when you see it thing" that is hard to describe. With older books especially they were produced cheaply on cheap paper stock. You can find books where the cutting blades must have been getting dull and paper has a rougher edge or corner. Sometimes interior pages were not cut through all the way. Tiny bindery tears. Production creases from the rollers. These are a few common production defects.

 

If you pay for the grader's notes you can see if any defect is noted on that corner. that would give you a clue as to if the graders saw a defect and allowed it at the grade.

 

We also need a good picture of the corner you speak of to offer any better of an opinion.

[steveinthecity]

I would still like to know how to tell if a defect is a production defect?

 

Is it just knowing the history of the book? I tried searching online, but could not find much information.

The "sticky" thread on the top of this forum has a lot of great info on production defects. And yes, some books are known to have specific defects throughout the print run of a particular issue.

[Open]

I was just trying to get some photos of the defect, but do to a mix of the low quality of my camera, the reflection from the encasement, and how small the defect is. I was not able to get a photos that would show anything helpful.

[Open]

After looking at the book again it appear that it is more likely that the corner is just dull. I guess CGC doesn't take off too many points for one dull corner.

[Open]

If you pay for the grader's notes you can see if any defect is noted on that corner. that would give you a clue as to if the graders saw a defect and allowed it at the grade.

When I check on CGC site, it doesn't look like they have grader notes for my book.

Thanks for the advice tho

[Batko-migration]

Below are some photos of a FM #2 which I just acquired. For arguments sake and as an example, how serious does CGC consider the small tear (less than 1/8") on the bottom front cover and the small missing tip of the back cover (about 1/8")?

 

The rest of the magazine is nice and probably would be a 7.0-7.5 if not for those defects. I have posted requesting a grade in "Brother Can You Spare a Grade," but not much response there so far, except for one grade that seems excessively harsh.

 

The photos are from the auction. My camera seems to take pics that have too many KBs or something to be posted here.

 

Thanks in advance for your input!

 

Mike

 

[joeypost]

Even if the rest of the book was perfect I could not see a book getting any better than 5.5/6.0 with just those 2 defects.

[Batko-migration]

Even if the rest of the book was perfect I could not see a book getting any better than 5.5/6.0 with just those 2 defects.

 

That would be my estimation. The small missing piece disqualifies the magazine from a grade higher than a 6.5. But, the rest of the magazine is clean, nice supple pages, and good gloss (which is not evident in the mediocre photos).

 

Someone over in "Brother Can You Spare a Grade" gave it a 3.5 which is somewhat harsh, in my opinion. I never could understand CGC's criteria. I've seen a FM #9 get an 8.5 grade with two writings in pen on the front cover, grimy looking front and back cover. I would rather have one with the two defects that mine has, but looked clean and displayed well. Each to his own, I guess.

 

I paid $145.50 for the mag including shipping. In your opinion, was that a fair price?

 

Thanks for your input.

 

Mike

[joeypost]

3.5 sounds a little harsh. I would say more in the 4.5 range. According to GPA this book is worth more in 4.5 then in 5.5. Last sale in 4.5 was $600.00 while the last 5.5 sale was $500.00. They were about a year apart. With the 4.5 selling in 5/2011 compared to the 5.5 copy in 4/2012.

 

If you paid $150 or less I would say you did OK based on blue label value. If it comes back restored that is another story.