Certified Collectibles Group (CCG) Acquires Classics Incorporated 3 3

[Dale Roberts]

Those who are angry about books being pressed are only angry because pressing as a potential damage vector is profit oriented.

 

Those same angry few aren't angry about the damage vector know as book reading, presumably.

 

Some of us are angry because this thread is being hijacked into a pressing thread. Pressing is not the problem. It's a conflict of interest.

 

Is it? I'm conflicted.

 

I would much rather talk about the 7 month grading back up.

 

I currently have a submission from June 6th which is not even scheduled for grading yet.

[miraclemet]

I'm quite familiar with a chinese wall, as an attorney. But there is zero transparency at CGC. So all you're gonna get is, "We've taken steps to make sure nothing bad happens. If you think otherwise, prove it."

 

I dont think they have to do this, I just think doing it would shut this (and future versions of this) thread down.

 

And as someone else said a few posts back, CGC is built in part of consumer confidence. If they see something they are doing erodes that confidence, then they should look for ways to shore up that confidence.

 

 

[TupennyConan]

I would much rather talk about the 7 month grading back up.

 

I currently have a submission from June 6th which is not even scheduled for grading yet.

 

Wow, business is on the decline in Sarasota. No wonder they threw the Hail Mary.

 

[Dale Roberts]

Those who are angry about books being pressed are only angry because pressing as a potential damage vector is profit oriented.

 

Those same angry few aren't angry about the damage vector know as book reading, presumably.

 

Some of us are angry because this thread is being hijacked into a pressing thread. Pressing is not the problem. It's a conflict of interest.

 

Is it? I'm conflicted.

 

I would much rather talk about the 7 month grading back up.

 

I currently have a submission from June 6th which is not even scheduled for grading yet.

 

No wonder they couldn't afford another encapulation machine! They were saving up for a pressing/restoration business.

 

I guess next they will buy Heritage and cut everyone else out fo the loop completely.

 

Get your books pressed, restored, graded, and sold all at the same time.

[Dr Chaos]

Those who are angry about books being pressed are only angry because pressing as a potential damage vector is profit oriented.

 

Those same angry few aren't angry about the damage vector know as book reading, presumably.

 

Some of us are angry because this thread is being hijacked into a pressing thread. Pressing is not the problem. It's a conflict of interest.

 

Is it? I'm conflicted.

 

I would much rather talk about the 7 month grading back up.

 

I currently have a submission from June 6th which is not even scheduled for grading yet.

 

Maybe Matt can do some grading.

[MrBedrock]

Converserly, as undergraded books are identified and flip hands and work their way through the ringer(s) (and make no mistake, there are books out there that have been pressed, re-pressed, and post-re-pressed as the new "owners/investors" have no history that a book has already been pressed and re-pressed), the % of overgraded CGC books will increase as each book is maxed out. That, and the loosening of CGC's standards over the last few years, has resulted in an overall population of CGC graded books that lean towards the low end of the grade spectrum.

The fact that a book as expensive as the Pacific Coast Hulk 1 has been resubbed many times tells me that the more expensive/rare/highly sought after a book is, the more likely it is that it'll have a "checkered" resub history. Combine that with your point about overgraded/overworked books and the astronomical rise in the prices of many key books, and you can only conclude that buyers will continue to get far less for their collecting dollar.

 

If I had money that I couldn't afford to lose tied up in books, I'd be dumping like it's hot.

A little data to support a rational argument. Here's a snapshot of the PC TOS run.

 

These books were run through the ringer multiple times. High grade to start with, but that wasn't quite enough.

 

Every squeeze was undertaken to maximize their monetary potential...

 

 

Thanks for posting that. (thumbs u

 

I've said this many times in the past, and I'll say it again in light of this clear illustration: pressing completely defeats the purpose of high grade collecting, or at least, it defeats the purpose of paying a premium for high grade books.

 

Maybe CGC's new acquisition will accelerate the speed at which collectors grasp that fact, but I'm not holding my breath.

But what are we really looking at here? 21 books cracked and resubmitted over a ten year period. 7 of which had no grade bump. 1 book had a two increment grade bump. The other 13 had a grade bump of only one increment. There is no proof that any of them were pressed (though we all assume that they were). This is really only a testament to two men with an obsession. The submitter, who wants the highest grades. And the compiler, who wants the smokingest gun.

[COI]

Those who are angry about books being pressed are only angry because pressing as a potential damage vector is profit oriented.

 

Those same angry few aren't angry about the damage vector know as book reading, presumably.

 

Some of us are angry because this thread is being hijacked into a pressing thread. Pressing is not the problem. It's a conflict of interest.

 

Pressing is part of the suite of services which will be offered by CGC. Pressing is a big part of Matt's business. We're talking about pressing as a premise to support the fact that this acquisition presents a conflict of interest. So I'm not sure why you're angry. Conversations have their own flow, and you can't control it.

 

[Transplant]

Those who are angry about books being pressed are only angry because pressing as a potential damage vector is profit oriented.

 

Those same angry few aren't angry about the damage vector know as book reading, presumably.

 

Some of us are angry because this thread is being hijacked into a pressing thread. Pressing is not the problem. It's a conflict of interest.

 

Is it? I'm conflicted.

 

I would much rather talk about the 7 month grading back up.

 

I currently have a submission from June 6th which is not even scheduled for grading yet.

It being a conflict is not changed by the fact that they are way behind. Truthfully, I'd rather see a plan to reduce turnarounds, but this is what we've got.

 

You and I can disagree, I guess, on whether this is an actual or even perceived conflict. But I am firmly in the "yes it is" camp.

[Dale Roberts]

Converserly, as undergraded books are identified and flip hands and work their way through the ringer(s) (and make no mistake, there are books out there that have been pressed, re-pressed, and post-re-pressed as the new "owners/investors" have no history that a book has already been pressed and re-pressed), the % of overgraded CGC books will increase as each book is maxed out. That, and the loosening of CGC's standards over the last few years, has resulted in an overall population of CGC graded books that lean towards the low end of the grade spectrum.

The fact that a book as expensive as the Pacific Coast Hulk 1 has been resubbed many times tells me that the more expensive/rare/highly sought after a book is, the more likely it is that it'll have a "checkered" resub history. Combine that with your point about overgraded/overworked books and the astronomical rise in the prices of many key books, and you can only conclude that buyers will continue to get far less for their collecting dollar.

 

If I had money that I couldn't afford to lose tied up in books, I'd be dumping like it's hot.

A little data to support a rational argument. Here's a snapshot of the PC TOS run.

 

These books were run through the ringer multiple times. High grade to start with, but that wasn't quite enough.

 

Every squeeze was undertaken to maximize their monetary potential...

 

 

Thanks for posting that. (thumbs u

 

I've said this many times in the past, and I'll say it again in light of this clear illustration: pressing completely defeats the purpose of high grade collecting, or at least, it defeats the purpose of paying a premium for high grade books.

 

Maybe CGC's new acquisition will accelerate the speed at which collectors grasp that fact, but I'm not holding my breath.

But what are we really looking at here? 21 books cracked and resubmitted over a ten year period. 7 of which had no grade bump. 1 book had a two increment grade bump. The other 13 had a grade bump of only one increment. There is no proof that any of them were pressed (though we all assume that they were). This is really only a testament to two men with an obsession. The submitter, who wants the highest grades. And the compiler, who wants the smokingest gun.

 

whats up dork?

[Lunchbox-migration]

Those who are angry about books being pressed are only angry because pressing as a potential damage vector is profit oriented.

 

Those same angry few aren't angry about the damage vector know as book reading, presumably.

 

Some of us are angry because this thread is being hijacked into a pressing thread. Pressing is not the problem. It's a conflict of interest.

 

Is it? I'm conflicted.

 

I would much rather talk about the 7 month grading back up.

 

I currently have a submission from June 6th which is not even scheduled for grading yet.

 

No wonder they couldn't afford another encapulation machine! They were saving up for a pressing/restoration business.

 

I guess next they will buy Heritage and cut everyone else out fo the loop completely.

 

Get your books pressed, restored, graded, and sold all at the same time.

 

Ahhhh, so that's why they hired Borock! Sly...

[Transplant]

Those who are angry about books being pressed are only angry because pressing as a potential damage vector is profit oriented.

 

Those same angry few aren't angry about the damage vector know as book reading, presumably.

 

Some of us are angry because this thread is being hijacked into a pressing thread. Pressing is not the problem. It's a conflict of interest.

 

Pressing is part of the suite of services which will be offered by CGC. Pressing is a big part of Matt's business. We're talking about pressing as a premise to support the fact that this acquisition presents a conflict of interest. So I'm not sure why you're angry. Conversations have their own flow, and you can't control it.

I'm not trying to control it. Just pointing out that it's derailing the underlying bigger issue. We've gone ad nauseam on pressing before. Is there really anything new here? If so, don't bury it in this thread. Bring it to the masses in a new one. It will get more press there.

[Transplant]

Those who are angry about books being pressed are only angry because pressing as a potential damage vector is profit oriented.

 

Those same angry few aren't angry about the damage vector know as book reading, presumably.

 

Some of us are angry because this thread is being hijacked into a pressing thread. Pressing is not the problem. It's a conflict of interest.

 

Is it? I'm conflicted.

 

I would much rather talk about the 7 month grading back up.

 

I currently have a submission from June 6th which is not even scheduled for grading yet.

 

No wonder they couldn't afford another encapulation machine! They were saving up for a pressing/restoration business.

 

I guess next they will buy Heritage and cut everyone else out fo the loop completely.

 

Get your books pressed, restored, graded, and sold all at the same time.

 

Ahhhh, so that's why they hired Borock! Sly...

Since Heritage owns a chunk of CGC, would that be cannibalism?

[COI]

Converserly, as undergraded books are identified and flip hands and work their way through the ringer(s) (and make no mistake, there are books out there that have been pressed, re-pressed, and post-re-pressed as the new "owners/investors" have no history that a book has already been pressed and re-pressed), the % of overgraded CGC books will increase as each book is maxed out. That, and the loosening of CGC's standards over the last few years, has resulted in an overall population of CGC graded books that lean towards the low end of the grade spectrum.

The fact that a book as expensive as the Pacific Coast Hulk 1 has been resubbed many times tells me that the more expensive/rare/highly sought after a book is, the more likely it is that it'll have a "checkered" resub history. Combine that with your point about overgraded/overworked books and the astronomical rise in the prices of many key books, and you can only conclude that buyers will continue to get far less for their collecting dollar.

 

If I had money that I couldn't afford to lose tied up in books, I'd be dumping like it's hot.

A little data to support a rational argument. Here's a snapshot of the PC TOS run.

 

These books were run through the ringer multiple times. High grade to start with, but that wasn't quite enough.

 

Every squeeze was undertaken to maximize their monetary potential...

 

 

Thanks for posting that. (thumbs u

 

I've said this many times in the past, and I'll say it again in light of this clear illustration: pressing completely defeats the purpose of high grade collecting, or at least, it defeats the purpose of paying a premium for high grade books.

 

Maybe CGC's new acquisition will accelerate the speed at which collectors grasp that fact, but I'm not holding my breath.

But what are we really looking at here? 21 books cracked and resubmitted over a ten year period. 7 of which had no grade bump. 1 book had a two increment grade bump. The other 13 had a grade bump of only one increment. There is no proof that any of them were pressed (though we all assume that they were). This is really only a testament to two men with an obsession. The submitter, who wants the highest grades. And the compiler, who wants the smokingest gun.

 

To me, this is merely a snapshot of what is going on at large. Pedigree books already in high grade being submitted up to 7 times. This group of books doesn't say much in and of itself, but it's a microcosm of how the game is played.

[miraclemet]

 

No wonder they couldn't afford another encapulation machine! They were saving up for a pressing/restoration business.

 

 

this is actually a very good point... If the encapsulating was the bottle neck (which I think I heard at one point, but made me go cause really? isnt it the grading part that is the most time consuming? but whatever) then why not spend the money to address it?

 

At the end of the day they arent in the business for us, they are in the business for them (and their wallets) so Im guessing the profit margins on the CI business made it a good buy from the bottom dollar perspective, more so than improving efficiency and cutting down on their time to grade numbers.

[Chespirito]

Those who are angry about books being pressed are only angry because pressing as a potential damage vector is profit oriented.

 

Those same angry few aren't angry about the damage vector know as book reading, presumably.

 

Some of us are angry because this thread is being hijacked into a pressing thread. Pressing is not the problem. It's a conflict of interest.

 

Is it? I'm conflicted.

 

I would much rather talk about the 7 month grading back up.

 

I currently have a submission from June 6th which is not even scheduled for grading yet.

 

No wonder they couldn't afford another encapulation machine! They were saving up for a pressing/restoration business.

 

I guess next they will buy Heritage and cut everyone else out fo the loop completely.

 

Get your books pressed, restored, graded, and sold all at the same time.

 

Ahhhh, so that's why they hired Borock! Sly...

Since Heritage owns a chunk of CGC, would that be cannibalism?

 

Not really...unless one of them says..."mmm, delicious!"

[COI]

Those who are angry about books being pressed are only angry because pressing as a potential damage vector is profit oriented.

 

Those same angry few aren't angry about the damage vector know as book reading, presumably.

 

Some of us are angry because this thread is being hijacked into a pressing thread. Pressing is not the problem. It's a conflict of interest.

 

Pressing is part of the suite of services which will be offered by CGC. Pressing is a big part of Matt's business. We're talking about pressing as a premise to support the fact that this acquisition presents a conflict of interest. So I'm not sure why you're angry. Conversations have their own flow, and you can't control it.

I'm not trying to control it. Just pointing out that it's derailing the underlying bigger issue. We've gone ad nauseam on pressing before. Is there really anything new here? If so, don't bury it in this thread. Bring it to the masses in a new one. It will get more press there.

 

It's not a derailment, it's merely an aspect of this discussion that you don't think is important or worth focusing on. And you might be right. If you'd like to keep discussing the conflict of interest, no one is stopping you.

[MCMiles]

Those who are angry about books being pressed are only angry because pressing as a potential damage vector is profit oriented.

 

Those same angry few aren't angry about the damage vector know as book reading, presumably.

 

Some of us are angry because this thread is being hijacked into a pressing thread. Pressing is not the problem. It's a conflict of interest.

 

At the very least it's a thread about perception. Which of course we know there are going to be whackadoos on both sides. Some people are going to apologize for CGC till they ate blue in the face and make excuses, no matter how evident the problems are. Others are going to use any opportunity they can to come up with any cockamamy conspiracy possible such as CGC adjusting grading standards to accept defects caused by pressing. Lets not forget the people that want to blame everything from Hurricane Sandy to recessed staples that happened nearly fifty years ago when the books were manufactured on pressing.

[roastedbagel]

I don't feel like reading 21 pages.

 

Cliffnotes? (I'm more interested in member freak outs, yelling, and name calling). Thanks!

Edited November 19, 2012 by roastedbagel

[MrBedrock]

To me, this is merely a snapshot of what is going on at large. Pedigree books already in high grade being submitted up to 7 times. This group of books doesn't say much in and of itself, but it's a microcosm of how the game is played.

And the problem is...

[Transplant]

Those who are angry about books being pressed are only angry because pressing as a potential damage vector is profit oriented.

 

Those same angry few aren't angry about the damage vector know as book reading, presumably.

 

Some of us are angry because this thread is being hijacked into a pressing thread. Pressing is not the problem. It's a conflict of interest.

 

Pressing is part of the suite of services which will be offered by CGC. Pressing is a big part of Matt's business. We're talking about pressing as a premise to support the fact that this acquisition presents a conflict of interest. So I'm not sure why you're angry. Conversations have their own flow, and you can't control it.

I'm not trying to control it. Just pointing out that it's derailing the underlying bigger issue. We've gone ad nauseam on pressing before. Is there really anything new here? If so, don't bury it in this thread. Bring it to the masses in a new one. It will get more press there.

 

It's not a derailment, it's merely an aspect of this discussion that you don't think is important or worth focusing on. And you might be right. If you'd like to keep discussing the conflict of interest, no one is stopping you.

You're right. I don't think it's relevant to the discussion. But the same people are trotting out the same pro/anti-pressing arguments and examples.

 

If I were to envision a bigger risk for conflict of interest, it wouldn't be on the pressing side. That's just more likely to happen due to volume. My bet would be on examples where resto is removed (blue label vs. plod) or added (slight vs mod vs ext). That's my