Certified Collectibles Group (CCG) Acquires Classics Incorporated 3 3

[TupennyConan]

So I can't wait for someone to tell me how no conflict of interest will occur.

 

Can't be done. In fact, perception of a conflict equals a conflict. It's inherent in the definition.

 

Will there be monitors, a la the UN?

 

No.

 

Should we just take the word of the company?

 

No other option other than wait for the whistleblower.

 

 

[InvstmntComcSuply]

So assuming the graders still won't know a CI submission from any other.

 

What happens when a $1000 CI submission does not meet the projected grade? There will be a strong incentive to, at a minimum "run it through again at no charge to see if we catch the graders on a better day" again, and again and ..... or even a CI employee directly inquiring from the graders "what will it take to make this a x.x?"

 

It is going to be hard to explain to customers "Here is our in house conservation department, they do GREAT work" and then "Sorry, your book did not meet the projected grade." or "CI must have missed something in their initial examination, your book only received a 9.2 instead of a 9.8 and yes you still owe us for the CI services rendered"

 

The "appearance" of conflict of interest is one thing. However, in this case there are huge financial as well as "customer goodwill" incentives for conflict of interest to occur.

 

I expect at a minimum that CI employees will be cross trained as graders, which will improve their ability to "maximize potential".

 

As an aside:

It is going to be a fun when CGC goes into upselling mode and offers "value added" services on a book that was just pressed.

.

 

 

[nearmint]

So assuming the graders still won't know a CI submission from any other.

 

What happens when a $1000 CI submission does not meet the projected grade? There will be a strong incentive to, at a minimum "run it through again at no charge to see if we catch the graders on a better day" again, and again and ..... or even a CI employee directly inquiring from the graders "what will it take to make this a x.x?"

 

It is going to be hard to explain to customers "Here is our in house conservation department, they do GREAT work" and then "Sorry, your book did not meet the projected grade." or "CI must have missed something in their initial examination, your book only received a 9.2 instead of a 9.8 and yes you still owe us for the CI services rendered"

 

The "appearance" of conflict of interest is one thing. However, in this case there are huge financial as well as "customer goodwill" incentives for conflict of interest to occur.

 

I expect at a minimum that CI employees will be cross trained as graders, which will improve their ability to "maximize potential".

 

As an aside:

It is going to be a fun when CGC goes into upselling mode and offers "value added" services on a book that was just pressed.

.

 

 

They should either eliminate projected grades, or state strongly that CI employees are not graders and that projected grades may not reflect certified grades.

[comicwiz]

No other option other than wait for the whistleblower.

 

[InvstmntComcSuply]

So assuming the graders still won't know a CI submission from any other.

 

What happens when a $1000 CI submission does not meet the projected grade? There will be a strong incentive to, at a minimum "run it through again at no charge to see if we catch the graders on a better day" again, and again and ..... or even a CI employee directly inquiring from the graders "what will it take to make this a x.x?"

 

It is going to be hard to explain to customers "Here is our in house conservation department, they do GREAT work" and then "Sorry, your book did not meet the projected grade." or "CI must have missed something in their initial examination, your book only received a 9.2 instead of a 9.8 and yes you still owe us for the CI services rendered"

 

The "appearance" of conflict of interest is one thing. However, in this case there are huge financial as well as "customer goodwill" incentives for conflict of interest to occur.

 

I expect at a minimum that CI employees will be cross trained as graders, which will improve their ability to "maximize potential".

 

As an aside:

It is going to be a fun when CGC goes into upselling mode and offers "value added" services on a book that was just pressed.

.

 

 

They should either eliminate projected grades, or state strongly that CI employees are not graders and that projected grades may not reflect certified grades.

 

My guess is it is more likely to go the following route:

"We are the in house conservation specialists for CGC, we know exactly what it takes to get a grade bump.

Sorry, what were the 3 security digits on your credit card number again?"

[COI]

Pressing combined with slabbing very very profitable.

A bigger money maker than the raw comics themselves.

 

You might be onto something.

[comicwiz]

So assuming the graders still won't know a CI submission from any other.

 

What happens when a $1000 CI submission does not meet the projected grade? There will be a strong incentive to, at a minimum "run it through again at no charge to see if we catch the graders on a better day" again, and again and ..... or even a CI employee directly inquiring from the graders "what will it take to make this a x.x?"

 

It is going to be hard to explain to customers "Here is our in house conservation department, they do GREAT work" and then "Sorry, your book did not meet the projected grade." or "CI must have missed something in their initial examination, your book only received a 9.2 instead of a 9.8 and yes you still owe us for the CI services rendered"

 

The "appearance" of conflict of interest is one thing. However, in this case there are huge financial as well as "customer goodwill" incentives for conflict of interest to occur.

 

I expect at a minimum that CI employees will be cross trained as graders, which will improve their ability to "maximize potential".

 

As an aside:

It is going to be a fun when CGC goes into upselling mode and offers "value added" services on a book that was just pressed.

.

 

 

They should either eliminate projected grades, or state strongly that CI employees are not graders and that projected grades may not reflect certified grades.

 

My guess is it is more likely to go the following route

"We are the in house conservation specialists for CGC, we know exactly what it takes to get a grade bump. Sorry, what were the 3 security digits on your credit card number again?"

 

Fixed that for you (thumbs u

[mschmidt]

So assuming the graders still won't know a CI submission from any other.

 

What happens when a $1000 CI submission does not meet the projected grade? There will be a strong incentive to, at a minimum "run it through again at no charge to see if we catch the graders on a better day" again, and again and ..... or even a CI employee directly inquiring from the graders "what will it take to make this a x.x?"

 

It is going to be hard to explain to customers "Here is our in house conservation department, they do GREAT work" and then "Sorry, your book did not meet the projected grade." or "CI must have missed something in their initial examination, your book only received a 9.2 instead of a 9.8 and yes you still owe us for the CI services rendered"

 

The "appearance" of conflict of interest is one thing. However, in this case there are huge financial as well as "customer goodwill" incentives for conflict of interest to occur.

 

I expect at a minimum that CI employees will be cross trained as graders, which will improve their ability to "maximize potential".

 

As an aside:

It is going to be a fun when CGC goes into upselling mode and offers "value added" services on a book that was just pressed.

.

 

 

They should either eliminate projected grades, or state strongly that CI employees are not graders and that projected grades may not reflect certified grades.

 

My guess is it is more likely to go the following route:

"We are the in house conservation specialists for CGC, we know exactly what it takes to get a grade bump.

Sorry, what were the 3 security digits on your credit card number again?"

 

Which, again, is irrelevant if the graders continue to be in the dark as to who owns the books they are grading.

 

Every single conflict of interest theory in this thread hinges on the CGC graders suddenly knowing that a certain book came in through CI. If CGC actually confirms that this isn't going to be the case, what's left to speculate about?

[Transplant]

Every single conflict of interest theory in this thread hinges on the CGC graders suddenly knowing that a certain book came in through CI. If CGC actually confirms that this isn't going to be the case, what's left to speculate about?

You're right. It does revolve around them having some idea of whether the book is a client of CI. But, where are we expected to draw the line? CGC has a no slabbed comic sales policy for their employees. Why? Can't we just trust that the graders won't know whose book it is?

[blazingbob]

Obviously you missed my Pressno's thread where the books are lightly spritzed, lighted baked and flattened and then as they are drying along the conveyor belt suddenly drop on the graders desks.

 

How can this not be a conflict when the books are still warm?

 

Edited November 19, 2012 by blazingbob

[mschmidt]

Every single conflict of interest theory in this thread hinges on the CGC graders suddenly knowing that a certain book came in through CI. If CGC actually confirms that this isn't going to be the case, what's left to speculate about?

You're right. It does revolve around them having some idea of whether the book is a client of CI. But, where are we expected to draw the line? CGC has a no slabbed comic sales policy for their employees. Why? Can't we just trust that the graders won't know whose book it is?

 

That just proves my point, though - CGC already has internal policies in place to ensure there's no conflict of interest for the graders. Has there been any indication whatsoever that those policies no longer exist?

[VintageComics]

I think what most people are worried about is that the conflict arises from a grader knowing:

 

a) where the book comes from (ie. from CI down the hall)

b) who personally owns the book

 

If all the grader sees is a bar code on a mylar, is there a conflict on interest in reality?

 

It's fairly well established that either Jim Halperin or Heritage have a small piece of the pie owning CGC (or CCG) or whatever. If JH or Heritage have zero influence over what their books are going to grade out as, is there a conflict?

 

It's obvious now that Matt's former company will be pressing books before they get graded. If the graders have no idea who owns the book and where it comes from (ie. all they see is a bar code on a mylar) is it an actual conflict of interest?

 

Yes there is a perception of impartiality but that perception of impartiality disappears once the grading process is explained.

 

I suppose as long as that "Chinese Wall" is in place, and the graders only see a comic with a bar code on it for identification, I see it as nothing different than what we've been used to for 12 years now. Impartial graders grading books impartially.

 

 

 

 

[bababooey]

Is it presumed that Classics won't "learn anything new" when they get a peek at CGC's secret grading criteria?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[VintageComics]

Is it presumed that Classics won't "learn anything new" when they get a peek at CGC's secret grading criteria?

 

 

I have no idea. Matt was already pretty good at reverse engineering CGC's grading model (as many people are who handle a lot of books). I'm assuming they might learn more about the system.

 

I'm more curious as to why a thread stops dead when I post in it.

 

[bababooey]

I'm more curious as to why a thread stops dead when I post in it.

 

 

I have the same problem. I'll take the hit on this one.

[Transplant]

Every single conflict of interest theory in this thread hinges on the CGC graders suddenly knowing that a certain book came in through CI. If CGC actually confirms that this isn't going to be the case, what's left to speculate about?

You're right. It does revolve around them having some idea of whether the book is a client of CI. But, where are we expected to draw the line? CGC has a no slabbed comic sales policy for their employees. Why? Can't we just trust that the graders won't know whose book it is?

 

That just proves my point, though - CGC already has internal policies in place to ensure there's no conflict of interest for the graders. Has there been any indication whatsoever that those policies no longer exist?

My question is what things should NOT be allowed, then? If we're all protected by some internal policy that no one will ever know whose books is being graded, why care if your employees are buying or selling slabs?

 

For that matter, why not let the graders know whose book it is? They're supposed to be impartial and completely without reproach, right? Tell them. I'm sure the policies will still hold if the policy tells them not to care whose book it is and to be impartial.

[ivegotneatstuff]

Every single conflict of interest theory in this thread hinges on the CGC graders suddenly knowing that a certain book came in through CI. If CGC actually confirms that this isn't going to be the case, what's left to speculate about?

You're right. It does revolve around them having some idea of whether the book is a client of CI. But, where are we expected to draw the line? CGC has a no slabbed comic sales policy for their employees. Why? Can't we just trust that the graders won't know whose book it is?

 

That just proves my point, though - CGC already has internal policies in place to ensure there's no conflict of interest for the graders. Has there been any indication whatsoever that those policies no longer exist?

My question is what things should NOT be allowed, then? If we're all protected by some internal policy that no one will ever know whose books is being graded, why care if your employees are buying or selling slabs?

 

For that matter, why not let the graders know whose book it is? They're supposed to be impartial and completely without reproach, right? Tell them. I'm sure the policies will still hold if the policy tells them not to care whose book it is and to be impartial.

 

 

Hi - Here's some more books for you to grade...these ones are from Robojo

[gaz973]

So assuming the graders still won't know a CI submission from any other.

 

What happens when a $1000 CI submission does not meet the projected grade? There will be a strong incentive to, at a minimum "run it through again at no charge to see if we catch the graders on a better day" again, and again and ..... or even a CI employee directly inquiring from the graders "what will it take to make this a x.x?"

Hey, it doesn't need it to be someone important complaining about a given grade to get their book bumped up. A while back there was a guy who wasn't happy with the grade his AF # 15 got and he was complaining about it on the boards. After everyone telling him that he just had to accept it, they were proven wrong by the head of CGC taking it in for a review and giving it that bump.

 

If CGC have done that in the past for a regular customer, why do people think they'll have a problem with giving a bump to a book because Matt Nelson couldn't get the expected grade after a press?

[ivegotneatstuff]

CGC has given me a bump before.. Mark H .. from a 9.8 to 9.9 on two books... and I am as average as you can get.. (granted..it was for Will to Power..but still)

 

I brought them in... told them I respectfully disagreed with their grade...asked them to point out the flaws..etc.. after looking at the book again..they agreed with me.. (two others did not get bumped..

 

 

[Green]

So assuming the graders still won't know a CI submission from any other.

 

What happens when a $1000 CI submission does not meet the projected grade? There will be a strong incentive to, at a minimum "run it through again at no charge to see if we catch the graders on a better day" again, and again and ..... or even a CI employee directly inquiring from the graders "what will it take to make this a x.x?"

Hey, it doesn't need it to be someone important complaining about a given grade to get their book bumped up. A while back there was a guy who wasn't happy with the grade his AF # 15 got and he was complaining about it on the boards. After everyone telling him that he just had to accept it, they were proven wrong by the head of CGC taking it in for a review and giving it that bump.

 

If CGC have done that in the past for a regular customer, why do people think they'll have a problem with giving a bump to a book because Matt Nelson couldn't get the expected grade after a press?

A better question is, why do people think this wasnt already happening. If there is collusion between CI and CGC (im not saying there is) it started over 10 years ago.