Certified Collectibles Group (CCG) Acquires Classics Incorporated 3 3

[skypinkblu]

davenport deals in sensationalism---he's a sound-bite guy. not naming steve added to his cloak and dagger stylings in that "fantastic" post.

 

And you....deal with words and convincing people ...very well, too, I might add

 

 

 

[nearmint]

Seems like this thread's freshness date is about to expire.

[skypinkblu]

Seems like this thread's freshness date is about to expire.

 

Billy is one of my very best favorite posters/people...if you read it another way, it was not meant to be;)

[nearmint]

Seems like this thread's freshness date is about to expire.

 

Billy is one of my very best favorite posters/people...if you read it another way, it was not meant to be;)

 

Actually wasn't referring to your post. Just seems like the thread is petering out.

[Green]

Seems like this thread's freshness date is about to expire.

 

Billy is one of my very best favorite posters/people...if you read it another way, it was not meant to be;)

 

Actually wasn't referring to your post. Just seems like the thread is petering out.

Hell, it petered in.

[PovertyRow]

Seems like this thread's freshness date is about to expire.

 

With the expiration of Hostess, the long term expiration date is definitely at risk.

[Green]

davenport deals in sensationalism---he's a sound-bite guy. not naming steve added to his cloak and dagger stylings in that "fantastic" post.

Maybe fantastic is over the top. Its just exciting to learn something. I had always heard this and that about halperins shady past dealings but those are the most detailed descriptions ive heard.

[Davenport]

What became of CGC's head grader? Senior Consignment Director at Heritage

 

"CGC's Head Grader"??? You forgot Steve Borock's name or are you shooting for a National Enquirer vibe?

 

My question to you, Davenport, is: What did "CGC's Head Grader" do that compromised CGC or Heritage or created a "conflict of interest?" Please detail what you know, since you brought this up under the "conflict of interest" umbrella..

 

Thanks!

Fair question.

I didn't put Steve's name because it doesn't matter "who". The position at CGC was the point, and where that position advanced to.

 

I went out of my way to not make it personal, because it's not. Glance up a few posts and you'll see someone accusing me of spewing "sensationalism". Look at your own defensive reaction. Making it about beloved personalities is a conversation-killer. So I purposely avoided it.

 

Maybe I should've only posted the links. Let them speak for themselves.

 

If you knew none of the personalities, none of the company names, would you consider:

...an auction house owner with a past involving grading conflicts

...a comic book grading company who accepts the action house owner's investment capital.

...a comic book restoration expert who has worked with and for the auction house

...a head grader and spokesperson for the comic book grading company

 

creates a "conflict of interest" if the head grader promotes to the auction house and the restoration expert sells his company to the recipient of the auction house owner's capital investment, the grading company?

 

That was the point, no more no less. And it just seemed ridiculous that people were debating whether the restoration expert might have insight to the grading company's methodology. Like they're not all marketing partners, interacting with one another, all working the same system.

 

 

.

[Davenport]

Dang. I didn't mean it clear the room.

 

Hello?

[skypinkblu]

Seems like this thread's freshness date is about to expire.

 

Billy is one of my very best favorite posters/people...if you read it another way, it was not meant to be;)

 

Actually wasn't referring to your post. Just seems like the thread is petering out.

 

I guess there are only so many times people can say the same thing;)

 

Thanks:) It's OK, gave me a chance to say something nice about someone for a change;)

[PovertyRow]

What became of CGC's head grader? Senior Consignment Director at Heritage

 

"CGC's Head Grader"??? You forgot Steve Borock's name or are you shooting for a National Enquirer vibe?

 

My question to you, Davenport, is: What did "CGC's Head Grader" do that compromised CGC or Heritage or created a "conflict of interest?" Please detail what you know, since you brought this up under the "conflict of interest" umbrella..

 

Thanks!

Fair question.

I didn't put Steve's name because it doesn't matter "who". The position at CGC was the point, and where that position advanced to.

 

I went out of my way to not make it personal, because it's not. Glance up a few posts and you'll see someone accusing me of spewing "sensationalism". Look at your own defensive reaction. Making it about beloved personalities is a conversation-killer. So I purposely avoided it.

 

Maybe I should've only posted the links. Let them speak for themselves.

 

If you knew none of the personalities, none of the company names, would you consider:

...an auction house owner with a past involving grading conflicts

...a comic book grading company who accepts the action house owner's investment capital.

...a comic book restoration expert who has worked with and for the auction house

...a head grader and spokesperson for the comic book grading company

 

creates a "conflict of interest" if the head grader promotes to the auction house and the restoration expert sells his company to the recipient of the auction house owner's capital investment, the grading company?

 

That was the point, no more no less. And it just seemed ridiculous that people were debating whether the restoration expert might have insight to the grading company's methodology. Like they're not all marketing partners, interacting with one another, all working the same system.

 

 

.

 

Basically, you are talking about an individual and it DOES matter "who". You say "the position at CGC is the point" but that position is held by a person, who you ignored and apparently denigrated by turning them from a person with real values to some kind of "corporate entity". YOU steered that and made me post my "defensive reaction", which balances your own offensive reaction.

 

Consider that the opposite of my " Making it about beloved personalities."

 

Come ON. I was recounting my real life experience.

 

I ask you again - what collusion has Steve done to merit this kind of post? Please recount YOUR real life experience with how Steve has compromised the Heritage/CGC relationship.

 

THAT is the real issue.

[comeaux]

*yawn*

 

Isn’t it time to start another thread of how the CGC Evil Empire is out to destroy comic collecting and how pressing is ruining the hobby, how all of the naysayers will refuse to use CGC from here on and how I will soon be able to buy loads of high grade books cheaply because everyone will be selling !

 

 

 

 

[PovertyRow]

*yawn*

 

Isn’t it time to start another thread of how the CGC Evil Empire is out to destroy comic collecting and how pressing is ruining the hobby, how all of the naysayers will refuse to use CGC from here on and how I will soon be able to buy loads of high grade books cheaply because everyone will be selling !

 

 

 

 

Did you just *yawn* at me?

[drbanner]

Basically, you are talking about an individual and it DOES matter "who". You say "the position at CGC is the point" but that position is held by a person, who you ignored and apparently denigrated by turning them from a person with real values to some kind of "corporate entity".

I always thought Steve was a great advocate for the collector while he was the Face of CGC and would stand up against the types of changes that didn't balance the company's need for revenue and what was best for the hobby. Steve was great in that role!

 

Then he left...then Mark left...then West left...then customer service left...then they started charging for graders notes...then their fees went up...then their wait times increased dramatically...then PQ standards were loosened...then grading standards were loosened...then the mother company bought a company with a direct conflict of interest...and now their graders are "...working 10 hour days and have been working six days a week..." Sound like a barrel full of monkeys at CGC since Steve left.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Pressing combined with slabbing very very profitable.

A bigger money maker than the raw comics themselves.

 

You might be onto something.

Artificial Value

 

One day the powers to be sat around a room, and said how can we get people to spend

to slab

a bronze/copper/ modern comic book only really worth this in nm?

 

 

 

Ah

We will do away with NM grades and come up with the digital 9s label to make profit. Bronze,Copper, and Modern age comics that are only worth $1 in near mint at best,now they will go for much more when we slap the 9.4,9.6 and 9.8 level on it.

Now they will pay

for a book really only worth

 

 

without the slab

and thus than an empire was born

Edited November 20, 2012 by ComicConnoisseur

[comicwiz]

I see both sides - POV's defence of a person who I've always felt is one of the best ambassadors of our hobby, and Dav's, who is merely pointing out the very real problems associated with the interconnections between people and entities, and the validity of self-proclaimed impartiality in third-party grading and self-appointment as a grading authority.

 

The final two points alone create a great deal of controversy without the skeleton closet, so while the effect is a broad brushstroke, it is one of the unfortunate things that happens when negativity trickles down to every player involved.

 

Perception is reality and rotten applies ruin the bunch.

[sterlingcomics]

Basically, you are talking about an individual and it DOES matter "who". You say "the position at CGC is the point" but that position is held by a person, who you ignored and apparently denigrated by turning them from a person with real values to some kind of "corporate entity".

I always thought Steve was a great advocate for the collector while he was the Face of CGC and would stand up against the types of changes that didn't balance the company's need for revenue and what was best for the hobby. Steve was great in that role!

 

Then he left...then Mark left...then West left...then customer service left...then they started charging for graders notes...then their fees went up...then their wait times increased dramatically...then PQ standards were loosened...then grading standards were loosened...then the mother company bought a company with a direct conflict of interest...and now their graders are "...working 10 hour days and have been working six days a week..." Sound like a barrel full of monkeys at CGC since Steve left.

Yeah but keep in mind that the first 1 million books took almost 10 years...didn't they double that second million in a year or two? That would probably add to the barrel of fun...

[sterlingcomics]

*yawn*

 

Isn’t it time to start another thread of how the CGC Evil Empire is out to destroy comic collecting and how pressing is ruining the hobby, how all of the naysayers will refuse to use CGC from here on and how I will soon be able to buy loads of high grade books cheaply because everyone will be selling !

 

 

 

I've been waiting to finish my common bronze runs for years...doesn't look like it will happen since they jacked up the prices of mid 70s books that in the eyes of sellers isn't worth bank to certify, and I'm too lazy to get my out to a convention. Oh well.

[Bookery]

Pressing combined with slabbing very very profitable.

A bigger money maker than the raw comics themselves.

 

You might be onto something.

Artificial Value

 

One day the powers to be sat around a room, and said how can we get people to spend

to slab

a bronze/copper/ modern comic book only really worth this in nm?

 

 

 

Ah

We will do away with NM grades and come up with the digital 9s label to make profit. Bronze,Copper, and Modern age comics that are only worth $1 in near mint at best,now they will go for much more when we slap the 9.4,9.6 and 9.8 level on it.

Now they will pay

for a book really only worth

 

 

without the slab

and thus than an empire was born

 

The only thing I would change about your argument is I would substitute the term "manufactured value" for "artificial value", as has been pointed out, value is whatever someone is willing to pay at a specific time.

 

I would guess 90% of the angst in this hobby stems from the ridiculous notion of grading paper down to tenths of a point. A system that would have left well enough alone by grading steps that went 8.0, 8.5, 9.0, 9.5, 10.0 would eliminate a very large portion of the "problems" which produce dozens of threads here. But to point out such reality makes you a heretic, and so it goes.

 

There is a bit of a problem, however, with your $1 value transformed into $20 scenario. If an unslabbed modern is worth $1, and it cost $20 to slab it, and the book is now worth $20, is there really any "artificial" value, or is the book price simply reflecting the slabbing costs. If I put a $100 painting in a $100 frame, and ask $200 for it... I'm not really creating artificial value, but simply asking the value of the two combined products.

 

I always thought, especially for less expensive books, that it was ludicrous that collectors won't spend any more on a slabbed $50 book, say in 6.0, than they would for the raw version... which is why, as Dale has also pointed out, it isn't cost-efficient for many dealers to slab much of their inventory.

 

But apparently on cheap moderns, buyers are willing to include the cost of the slab into their valuations.

 

[MCMiles]

 

I would guess 90% of the angst in this hobby stems from the ridiculous notion of grading paper down to tenths of a point. A system that would have left well enough alone by grading steps that went 8.0, 8.5, 9.0, 9.5, 10.0 would eliminate a very large portion of the "problems" which produce dozens of threads here. But to point out such reality makes you a heretic, and so it goes.

 

 

It's not heresy. It's simply not reality.

There is an obvious visual difference between 9.0, 9.2, 9.4, 9.6 and 9.8. At least for most people experienced in higher grade comics. The difference or combination of defects aren't always the same, but in higher grades there are few enough defects to easily discern the difference in grade in most cases. It doesn't work as well below 9.0 because the accumulation of defects and different possible combinations of defects is too great in lower grade ranges.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2012 by MCMiles