Certified Collectibles Group (CCG) Acquires Classics Incorporated 3 3

[MrBedrock]

What bags do comic books originally come in?

The ones that say "Robert Bell" on the flap.

 

This is a baseball thread; don't you mean Albert Belle.

 

I have no clue who either of you are talking about, so I'm just gonna throw Bell Biv Devoe out there and walk away.

A little comic book history...

Robert Bell was a comic dealer in the 60s and 70s. He used to advertise for his catalogs in Marvel comics. He was, as far as I know, the first person to mass produce polyethylene bags specifically for use on comic books. He had his name and mailing address printed on the flaps of the bags. I had a customer a few years back who, being very nostalgic, had me search for some of those old bags. They were not very hard to find. I'll get in a few collections each year which are still wrapped in those old, yellowing Robert Bell bags. There was a great interview with him in an issue of Comic Book Marketplace.

[500Club]

We started to learn Metric Conversion 50+ years ago in Grammer School.

 

The only thing that stuck with me was 2.34 centimeters per inch.

 

:

 

 

 

I don't have full confidence in the 'Grammer' he learned, either.

[Straw-Man]

What bags do comic books originally come in?

The ones that say "Robert Bell" on the flap.

 

This is a baseball thread; don't you mean Albert Belle.

 

he'll always be joey to me.

[Dale Roberts]

What bags do comic books originally come in?

The ones that say "Robert Bell" on the flap.

 

This is a baseball thread; don't you mean Albert Belle.

 

I have no clue who either of you are talking about, so I'm just gonna throw Bell Biv Devoe out there and walk away.

A little comic book history...

Robert Bell was a comic dealer in the 60s and 70s. He used to advertise for his catalogs in Marvel comics. He was, as far as I know, the first person to mass produce polyethylene bags specifically for use on comic books. He had his name and mailing address printed on the flaps of the bags. I had a customer a few years back who, being very nostalgic, had me search for some of those old bags. They were not very hard to find. I'll get in a few collections each year which are still wrapped in those old, yellowing Robert Bell bags. There was a great interview with him in an issue of Comic Book Marketplace.

 

 

I love to buy collections in those bags. The oils in the bags keep the books as bright and glossy as the day they were made.

[500Club]

What bags do comic books originally come in?

The ones that say "Robert Bell" on the flap.

 

This is a baseball thread; don't you mean Albert Belle.

 

he'll always be joey to me.

Me too... he of the corked bat theft, GPS on ex-GFs car, chase of Halloween vandals, and ball thrown at a fan.

[Straw-Man]

i've always thought williams not winning mvp in triple crown seasons was the height of stupidity. so, to be consistent, i was on board the cabrera train.

[blazingbob]

To be user friendly and to assist in the "transition" CGC could have enlarged the numerical grade to assist dealers for selling at shows while keeping the same font size for the alpha grade underneath. Would not have taken up my label real estate at all. But hey, what do I know about being helpful to the seller or buyer of CGC comics.

 

 

[PovertyRow]

To be user friendly and to assist in the "transition" CGC could have enlarged the numerical grade to assist dealers for selling at shows while keeping the same font size for the alpha grade underneath. Would not have taken up my label real estate at all. But hey, what do I know about being helpful to the seller or buyer of CGC comics.

 

 

I agree 100%. There is plenty of room for a small Alpha grade under the numeric one. If the minus sign in, for example, NM- is confusing, well they can use a different symbol.

 

I suggest NM(ish). But on further thought that COULD be confused with the VF/NM. Perhaps NM_ - see that? We still have a minus sign in appearance but it is now an undrscore, to underscore the fact it is not strict NM.

[Sqeggs]

i've always thought williams not winning mvp in triple crown seasons was the height of stupidity. so, to be consistent, i was on board the cabrera train.

 

Problem with the Triple Crown is that RBI is dependent on your teammates. You can be a great hitter, but if the guys in front of you don't get on, you won't have RBI opportunities. Or you can be a mediocre hitter -- Hello, Joe Carter! -- and if the guys in front of you get on base a lot, you can drive in a lot of runs.

 

Cabrera's defense and base running were poor enough to offset any advantage he had in hitting -- if he even had one -- over Trout. I would have voted for Trout.

[letsgrumble]

Is this a debate about who should be the MVP?

 

It certainly is taking on alot of the characteristics of a "sabermetrics" vs old school baseball stats argument.

 

Personally I vote Trout.

 

Finally a topic i know a little about. Enough of this comic stuff. Dude!! Cabrera won the Triple Crown. THE TRIPLE CROWN!! And he got his team to the World Series.

 

Jeff

 

Cabrera was the best offensive player. Trout was the most valuable player. Value in baseball is about wins. Wins is a factor of runs scored vs runs allowed.

 

There is a high correlation between run differential (or Runs scored vs runs allowed) and wins. As evidence of this, no team with a below .500 record had a positive run differential this year. That is a fancy way of saying they scored less runs than they allowed. Every team with a .500 or better record scored more runs than they allowed. This fact tells me that there are at least 2 components to determining value, that is runs created and runs saved. Defense does make a difference.

 

Offensive value should come from primarily 1 area...runs created. Runs created encompasses so many different factors of offense, from hitting, to effective slugging, to baserunning. It also includes factors which are not included in sabermetric stats, such as the ability to hit a sacrifice fly, or drive in a run from 3rd base on a ground ball to the 2nd baseman. These 2 things have value, even though they are not factored in to the advanced metrics. There are new stats such as extra base taken%, but these are all included in runs scored. An extra base taken or a stolen base which does not score, generally has zero value. In actual value(runs created), the only stats that really have an impact on the club's win total are runs scored and runs driven in.

 

So my formula to determine the most valuable player would be the player who creates the most runs on offense and the player who saves the most runs on defense. Runs created + runs saved = MVP. Runs saved is extremely hard to judge, so going with metrics of plus or minus runs saved above average from Fan Graphs and the Fielding Bible.

 

Cabrera - 139 RBI + 109 runs - 44 HRs +(-8 PMRS) = 196

Trout - 83 RBI + 129 runs - 30 HRs + (21 PMRS) = 203

 

When you include defense, it is clear that Trout is in fact more valuable to his team than Cabrera. I was somewhat surprised by this outcome, but I feel it is a very fair way to evaluate who is the Most Valuable.

 

 

Defense is a big deal, ill agree there. But the Angels finished third this year if im not mistaken. Take Trout out and where do the Angels finish?? Im thinking still third. Take Cabrera away from the Tigers and where do they finish?? Not first and not in the Playoffs.

 

I know Sabermetrics and all this new stuff about analyzing a player is common and has become a big part in valuing a player, sometimes though i think the core of an evauation is right there in front of you and not beyond the numbers. If the Angels go to the playoff this year, then there is a bigger arguement for Trout, but still debatable,

 

Jeff

 

The Angels won more games than the Tigers.

 

You trade divisions (obviously the West was tougher than the central), and the Angels win the central, and the Tigers finish 3rd in the West.

 

And that matters, i guess. But, they didnt switch divisions. Fact is that without Cabrera, the Tigers dont make the playoffs. So who is more valuable to their team in their division??

 

Oh and to keep it comics related:

 

Cabrera's season= 9.8

Trout's season= 9.6

Melky Cabrera's season= 9.2 Purple label. (Just thought id throw that in there.)

 

Cabrera's season= 9.8 ... TOP CENSUS, TRIPLE-CROWN KEY

 

Trout's season= 9.6 ... PRESS AND RESUB FOR SHOT AT 9.8 IN 2013

 

Melky Cabrera's season= 9.2 Purple label ... REMOVE RESTO FOR NEW POWDER BLUE LABEL IN TORONTO!

 

 

[Silver Surfer]

Only 14 players have one the triple crown since 1878 and the last time was in 1967. It should almost be automatic especially when the guy who he is competing against only hit 83 RBI's.

[VintageComics]

To be user friendly and to assist in the "transition" CGC could have enlarged the numerical grade to assist dealers for selling at shows while keeping the same font size for the alpha grade underneath. Would not have taken up my label real estate at all. But hey, what do I know about being helpful to the seller or buyer of CGC comics.

 

 

Again, another great suggestion that would help both seller and buyer.

 

(thumbs u

[drbanner]

To be user friendly and to assist in the "transition" CGC could have enlarged the numerical grade to assist dealers for selling at shows while keeping the same font size for the alpha grade underneath. Would not have taken up my label real estate at all. But hey, what do I know about being helpful to the seller or buyer of CGC comics.

I agree 100%. There is plenty of room for a small Alpha grade under the numeric one. If the minus sign in, for example, NM- is confusing, well they can use a different symbol.

 

I suggest NM(ish). But on further thought that COULD be confused with the VF/NM. Perhaps NM_ - see that? We still have a minus sign in appearance but it is now an undrscore, to underscore the fact it is not strict NM.

 

I propose a slightly different scale that should make it easy on everyone:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

 

[seanfingh]

PLOD

 

 

CPR for a lower grade

 

 

Old label crackout resub

 

 

Fingh squarebound submissions

 

[HOTFLIPS]

Is this a debate about who should be the MVP?

 

It certainly is taking on alot of the characteristics of a "sabermetrics" vs old school baseball stats argument.

 

Personally I vote Trout.

 

Finally a topic i know a little about. Enough of this comic stuff. Dude!! Cabrera won the Triple Crown. THE TRIPLE CROWN!! And he got his team to the World Series.

 

Jeff

 

Cabrera was the best offensive player. Trout was the most valuable player. Value in baseball is about wins. Wins is a factor of runs scored vs runs allowed.

 

There is a high correlation between run differential (or Runs scored vs runs allowed) and wins. As evidence of this, no team with a below .500 record had a positive run differential this year. That is a fancy way of saying they scored less runs than they allowed. Every team with a .500 or better record scored more runs than they allowed. This fact tells me that there are at least 2 components to determining value, that is runs created and runs saved. Defense does make a difference.

 

Offensive value should come from primarily 1 area...runs created. Runs created encompasses so many different factors of offense, from hitting, to effective slugging, to baserunning. It also includes factors which are not included in sabermetric stats, such as the ability to hit a sacrifice fly, or drive in a run from 3rd base on a ground ball to the 2nd baseman. These 2 things have value, even though they are not factored in to the advanced metrics. There are new stats such as extra base taken%, but these are all included in runs scored. An extra base taken or a stolen base which does not score, generally has zero value. In actual value(runs created), the only stats that really have an impact on the club's win total are runs scored and runs driven in.

 

So my formula to determine the most valuable player would be the player who creates the most runs on offense and the player who saves the most runs on defense. Runs created + runs saved = MVP. Runs saved is extremely hard to judge, so going with metrics of plus or minus runs saved above average from Fan Graphs and the Fielding Bible.

 

Cabrera - 139 RBI + 109 runs - 44 HRs +(-8 PMRS) = 196

Trout - 83 RBI + 129 runs - 30 HRs + (21 PMRS) = 203

 

When you include defense, it is clear that Trout is in fact more valuable to his team than Cabrera. I was somewhat surprised by this outcome, but I feel it is a very fair way to evaluate who is the Most Valuable.

 

 

Defense is a big deal, ill agree there. But the Angels finished third this year if im not mistaken. Take Trout out and where do the Angels finish?? Im thinking still third. Take Cabrera away from the Tigers and where do they finish?? Not first and not in the Playoffs.

 

I know Sabermetrics and all this new stuff about analyzing a player is common and has become a big part in valuing a player, sometimes though i think the core of an evauation is right there in front of you and not beyond the numbers. If the Angels go to the playoff this year, then there is a bigger arguement for Trout, but still debatable,

 

Jeff

 

The Angels won more games than the Tigers.

 

You trade divisions (obviously the West was tougher than the central), and the Angels win the central, and the Tigers finish 3rd in the West.

 

And that matters, i guess. But, they didnt switch divisions. Fact is that without Cabrera, the Tigers dont make the playoffs. So who is more valuable to their team in their division??

 

Oh and to keep it comics related:

 

Cabrera's season= 9.8

Trout's season= 9.6

Melky Cabrera's season= 9.2 Purple label. (Just thought id throw that in there.)

 

Cabrera's season= 9.8 ... TOP CENSUS, TRIPLE-CROWN KEY

 

Trout's season= 9.6 ... PRESS AND RESUB FOR SHOT AT 9.8 IN 2013

 

Melky Cabrera's season= 9.2 Purple label ... REMOVE RESTO FOR NEW POWDER BLUE LABEL IN TORONTO!

 

 

(thumbs u

[PovertyRow]

To be user friendly and to assist in the "transition" CGC could have enlarged the numerical grade to assist dealers for selling at shows while keeping the same font size for the alpha grade underneath. Would not have taken up my label real estate at all. But hey, what do I know about being helpful to the seller or buyer of CGC comics.

I agree 100%. There is plenty of room for a small Alpha grade under the numeric one. If the minus sign in, for example, NM- is confusing, well they can use a different symbol.

 

I suggest NM(ish). But on further thought that COULD be confused with the VF/NM. Perhaps NM_ - see that? We still have a minus sign in appearance but it is now an undrscore, to underscore the fact it is not strict NM.

 

I propose a slightly different scale that should make it easy on everyone:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There is a touch of brilliance here.

[MrBedrock]

I propose a slightly different scale that should make it easy on everyone:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(thumbs u

[Sqeggs]

Only 14 players have one the triple crown since 1878 and the last time was in 1967. It should almost be automatic especially when the guy who he is competing against only hit 83 RBI's.

 

RBI is like wins for pitchers -- too dependent on the performance of your teammates. Individual awards should focus on individual performance.

[Beige]

Anyone care to sum up the last 7 pages,as it seems that most of it has been done to death so many,many times before.

It is what it is.

Nothings going to change because we whine about it.

Keep Calm and carry on slabbing.