CGC Acquires Classics Inc - Response to your Questions

[originalisbest]

From inception to the PCS era, certification started from the need to take the hobby's worst activity - the handful of shady's like Dupcak and Ewert - and use that activity to establish the ceiling.

 

Mainly, that nothing would go above that level of trickery and underhandedness.

 

What's resulted instead is a path paved by certification which made the ceiling the gamed systems floor, and opened up that floor to anyone and everyone who wanted in on the game of high risk stakes.

 

Maybe the hobby changed more than CGC.

 

Maybe CGC changed, and veered from its original course because it became a lovesick money magnet.

 

One thing is for certain, if you follow certifications lead, you'll be well on your way to graduating with a BHD.

 

Summary: Yawn.

[TupennyConan]

From inception to the PCS era, certification started from the need to take the hobby's worst activity - the handful of shady's like Dupcak and Ewert - and use that activity to establish the ceiling.

 

Mainly, that nothing would go above that level of trickery and underhandedness.

 

What's resulted instead is a path paved by certification which made the ceiling the gamed systems floor, and opened up that floor to anyone and everyone who wanted in on the game of high risk stakes.

 

Maybe the hobby changed more than CGC.

 

Maybe CGC changed, and veered from its original course because it became a lovesick money magnet.

 

One thing is for certain, if you follow certifications lead, you'll be well on your way to graduating with a BHD.

 

Summary: Yawn.

 

I agree.

 

Pressing in the hands of the people is a good thing.

 

Pressing in the hands of the people, as encouraged by CGC's grading standards, which includes non-disclosure of pressing on CGC labels, is not comparable to what DupDummy has had a career of.

 

It isn't the same game getting gamed by gamers in a rigged gaming system.

[comicwiz]

From inception to the PCS era, certification started from the need to take the hobby's worst activity - the handful of shady's like Dupcak and Ewert - and use that activity to establish the ceiling.

 

Mainly, that nothing would go above that level of trickery and underhandedness.

 

What's resulted instead is a path paved by certification which made the ceiling the gamed systems floor, and opened up that floor to anyone and everyone who wanted in on the game of high risk stakes.

 

Maybe the hobby changed more than CGC.

 

Maybe CGC changed, and veered from its original course because it became a lovesick money magnet.

 

One thing is for certain, if you follow certifications lead, you'll be well on your way to graduating with a BHD.

 

Summary: Yawn.

 

You had a BHD before certification made you a narcoleptic.

[Comicopolis]

(This is not directed directly at Bookery, it's just where I jumped in at.)

 

I have to ask, and I mean this with all sincerity, why everyone feels the need to continue to posture their position on this topic ad nauseum?

 

Everyone here knows everyone else's individual opinion and their stance. The same faces make the same argument every...single...time...

Nobody has changed their opinion. No "point" made by anyone will miraculously change the mind of someone on the other side, nor the mind of CGC.

 

Once everyone is aware of your own views, as well as they know their own, it's time to find something else to and moan about.

 

 

And where would the fun in that be?

[comicwiz]

From inception to the PCS era, certification started from the need to take the hobby's worst activity - the handful of shady's like Dupcak and Ewert - and use that activity to establish the ceiling.

 

Mainly, that nothing would go above that level of trickery and underhandedness.

 

What's resulted instead is a path paved by certification which made the ceiling the gamed systems floor, and opened up that floor to anyone and everyone who wanted in on the game of high risk stakes.

 

Maybe the hobby changed more than CGC.

 

Maybe CGC changed, and veered from its original course because it became a lovesick money magnet.

 

One thing is for certain, if you follow certifications lead, you'll be well on your way to graduating with a BHD.

 

Summary: Yawn.

 

It isn't the same game getting gamed by gamers in a rigged gaming system.

 

You're right. This is worse.

[bababooey]

It isn't the same game getting gamed by gamers in a rigged gaming system.

This post is a game changer. This thread is about to take off...

 

[TupennyConan]

You're right. This is worse.

 

It's everywhere now. They're all down in their basements pressing now. All.of.them.

 

 

 

[MrBedrock]

 

I used Matt a few times, but Joey is quicker, more economical, is great to deal/work with, doesn't come with all the baggage Matt comes with (ebay shilling, etc.,.), and is highly recommended. (thumbs u

 

But primarily, I'll never use Matt again because CGC buying CI is a direct conflict of interest and I won't support that part of their business. The institutionalization of the pre-processing of comic books to artificially manufacture higher graded copies is bad for the hobby, and while the swelling of the census will make these manufactured 9.4's and 9.6's more affordable, they will be less "special".

 

I would hate to see the trendline of the % of books received by CGC that have been put through the ringer from 2000 to present....I'm sure it's pretty scary.

An interesting post. I smell hypocrisy in it.

[gyro-1]

It isn't the same game getting gamed by gamers in a rigged gaming system.

This post is a game changer. This thread is about to take off...

 

[originalisbest]

Someone mentioned it earlier in the thread and I've said this before. If you don't like what the hobby has become in this end of the pool, then I'd quit.

 

This is supposed to be fun. If it's stopped becoming fun, and there's this much angst over whether the book has been pressed, disclosed, conflicts of interest etc. that you find yourself really upset by it, then to me, it isn't worth it. Not that you shouldn't fight for your ideals, but this isn't life or death. It's a hobby. It's supposed to be fun.

 

And the more important thing is, books are going to continued to be pressed en masse. The higher end books will continue to be pressed and pressed and those that don't mind (either because they don't know or don't care) are going to continue to fill the market. And the market will ride this as long as they can, making money for as long as they can.

 

More and more collections from the SA and forward continue to find their way onto the market, and I believe that most of them are eventually scooped up by people who press. When people start paying the prices for slabbed 9.6s that are really raw 9.4s (but could be pressed) then perhaps you can start "saving" those books. But there's plenty of people who are going to make as much as you can from each and every book.

 

The same way people micro trim cards or do whatever they do to coins to improve their appearance, comics have now found a way to "graduate" to that level of manipulation. Our hobby has attracted greater cache from the movies and more money wrapped up in the value of the collectibles associated with it. Manipulation and inflation of original art, making comics into manufactured collectibles and anything else that can be done to make money are all facets that have been delivered and are here to stay -- as pressing can't be undone and a massive quantity of pressed books are already residing in slabs.

Love it or leave it?

 

How about we just put our foot down in one regard? That is, that the grading company tasked with being impartial actually be impartial. Is that too much to ask or should we just leave?

 

I'm saying that the whole framing of what your position is what's going to be the problem. The company is tasked with nothing. It exists to do one thing, make money. It's going to do whatever it believes it reasonably can to do so. The market has, either tacitly or not, accepted the practice. There is no going back.

 

I also see this whole thing of, the company changed when Borock left. And it did. And I love Steve and I love what he and Mark and others did for the company.

 

BUT when you guys talk about this -- be fair -- Borock has mentioned more than once that one of his biggest regrets was caving to the pressure and not opening PCS. I don't believe he's against the Matt move. Of course, he can speak for himself, and maybe I'm wrong. But I don't think he's vehemently opposed as many of you seem to be portraying it.

 

Yay for Brian, and common sense!

[originalisbest]

But that's why I don't see the cleaning of a book that does not leave residue as restoration. We may differ here, as this is not a process that can occur in nature...

And unless you live in an exceptionally high-humid climate with wild Dry Mount Press herds sneaking about, pressing isn't either.

 

I guess the argument is that pressing can't (always) be detected right? (and that a book at the bottom of a stack can be naturally "pressed"?)

If stacked weight yielded the same results has controlled professional pressing treatments, do you think pressing comics would've become a new profession? People would just do it themselves, right?

 

It's a strawman argument. A die-hard, for sure. And as long as the debate's around, it will get trotted out.

 

The fact is the end result is often identical or very similar. More so in higher end books than low end. It's even more of a significant fact that distinguishing between the two is pretty much impossible.

 

It's not a straw man argument. The only significant quantifiable difference between the two is the large amount of time involved with one and the heat and hydration used with the other.

 

Of course that will bring out the true straw man argument that underlying or time sensitive damage is being done to the paper.

 

Efficient turn around times and public demand for the service is what made it a profession.

 

 

Holy - this. Either press in a hurry or rent Edgar Church's cellar (wonder if the owners would be open to this?) for 50-60 years. Sheesh.

[Comicopolis]

Stacking comics on top of each other for ten years removes colour breaking creases?

 

Somebody should do a 20 year empirical study on the matter.

[DrWatson]

Why doesn't anyone ever reference the experiment the CBCA funded where it showed that the hydration from pressing actually increased the hydrogen bonds in the test subject and made the paper less brittle?

[comicdonna]

Why doesn't anyone ever reference the experiment the CBCA funded where it showed that the hydration from pressing actually increased the hydrogen bonds in the test subject and made the paper less brittle?

I blame it on Joey. He did too nice of a job.

 

I would like to see a larger round of tests done. The first samples were too small to draw any conclusions the effect pressing has on the book.

[comeaux]

(This is not directed directly at Bookery, it's just where I jumped in at.)

 

I have to ask, and I mean this with all sincerity, why everyone feels the need to continue to posture their position on this topic ad nauseum?

 

Everyone here knows everyone else's individual opinion and their stance. The same faces make the same argument every...single...time...

Nobody has changed their opinion. No "point" made by anyone will miraculously change the mind of someone on the other side, nor the mind of CGC.

 

Once everyone is aware of your own views, as well as they know their own, it's time to find something else to and moan about.

 

 

[DrWatson]

Why doesn't anyone ever reference the experiment the CBCA funded where it showed that the hydration from pressing actually increased the hydrogen bonds in the test subject and made the paper less brittle?

I blame it on Joey. He did too nice of a job.

 

I would like to see a larger round of tests done. The first samples were too small to draw any conclusions the effect pressing has on the book.

Of course they were too small. They didn't forecast gloom and doom.

[comicdonna]

Why doesn't anyone ever reference the experiment the CBCA funded where it showed that the hydration from pressing actually increased the hydrogen bonds in the test subject and made the paper less brittle?

I blame it on Joey. He did too nice of a job.

 

I would like to see a larger round of tests done. The first samples were too small to draw any conclusions the effect pressing has on the book.

Of course they were too small. They didn't forecast gloom and doom.

Nope. I don't allow wishful thinking to cloud reality. If a larger round of tests yield similar results, (and I hope it does) I will have a different view on pressing.

 

I should add, I haven't or never have made up my mind, whether or not pressing is harmful to books. Until it's proven one way or another, I will try to keep the number of pressed books in my collection to a minimum.

[drbanner]

Why doesn't anyone ever reference the experiment the CBCA funded where it showed that the hydration from pressing actually increased the hydrogen bonds in the test subject and made the paper less brittle?

 

Sounds great, as long as CGC isn't the entity doing it and then grading the quality of their own work with respect to grade and presence/absence of restoration, because that would be a conflict of interest. (thumbs u

[Logan510]

Why doesn't anyone ever reference the experiment the CBCA funded where it showed that the hydration from pressing actually increased the hydrogen bonds in the test subject and made the paper less brittle?

 

Sounds great, as long as CGC isn't the entity doing it and then grading the quality of their own work with respect to grade and presence/absence of restoration, because that would be a conflict of interest. (thumbs u

 

I guess it all comes down to trust. If Borock or Haspel were still there would you feel the same way? Just curious.

[Theagenes]

Why doesn't anyone ever reference the experiment the CBCA funded where it showed that the hydration from pressing actually increased the hydrogen bonds in the test subject and made the paper less brittle?

 

Because there was interest for about a day then everyone forgot about it. Not much of an attention span on these boards. Here you go.

 

A Preliminary Study on the Effects of Pressing on Comic Book Paper