CGC Acquires Classics Inc - Response to your Questions

[COI]

So yeah, money is part of it. But to the extent that you can accuse an anti-presser for being "only about the money", you can also accuse a pro-presser of putting money before the books. It's a ridiculous argument on both sides because there are financial implications for basically anyone who deals with slabs in any capacity.

 

In my post, I discussed 'these debates.' It takes two to debate. I include all those concerned, profiteers & frustrated profiteers & the long term investor known as the collector.

 

Every conservator's concerned over the price of acquisition & conservation.

 

All this money-worry has nothing to do with finding a worthless 50 year old copy of Ranger Rick, crumpled up in the attic, & immediately smoothing it out under the mattress so that it'll look better & store better with the other few thousand Ranger Ricks in the closet collection.

 

Yes, when I thought it through, I realized that's what you were saying, and I agree. I would just add that the "love of books" is mixed in there as well in a complex medley of misplaced sentiment, self-interest and colossal butthurt.

[TupennyConan]

in a complex medley of misplaced sentiment, self-interest and colossal butthurt.

 

You got me thinking about the collector: the true book loving conservator.

 

No matter how wealthy a person is, collecting expensive books is quite possibly an immoral practice.

 

Unless -- unless the collection is an investment for one's future. In which case, there's no moral issue, IMO.

 

Also in which case what we're really talking about is money & maybe even some profit.

 

 

 

 

[Transplant]

in a complex medley of misplaced sentiment, self-interest and colossal butthurt.

 

You got me thinking about the collector: the true book loving conservator.

 

No matter how wealthy a person is, collecting expensive books is quite possibly an immoral practice.

 

Unless -- unless the collection is an investment for one's future. In which case, there's no moral issue, IMO.

 

Also in which case what we're really talking about is money & maybe even some profit.

 

 

 

I think you are a performance art project for some twenty something woman in Pittsburgh. I really don't know that I can ever take a post of yours seriously. Half of them are contradictory and resemble a randomly generated string of words.

[TupennyConan]

Or, a private collector can act as a private museum & donate their collection to a public museum upon their demise. This removes the moral question, for the most part.

 

Acquisition is costly, though. & the public might not GAF about another HG copy of Superman 1 down at the museum.

[TupennyConan]

I think you are a performance art project for some twenty something woman in Pittsburgh. I really don't know that I can ever take a post of yours seriously. Half of them are contradictory and resemble a randomly generated string of words.

 

I take nothing you post seriously.

 

I win.

[Transplant]

I think you are a performance art project for some twenty something woman in Pittsburgh. I really don't know that I can ever take a post of yours seriously. Half of them are contradictory and resemble a randomly generated string of words.

 

I take nothing you post seriously.

 

I win.

Don't be a sore winner.

[batman_fan]

At the core of these debates is petty, envious, even spiteful, handwringing over comic book profits. Who’s making them? Who isn’t? How much & how?

 

Definitely.

 

Nobody bothered to answer the question I posed a few dozen pages back. I asked why people who claim to object to pressing because of preservation issues don't spend 1% of that energy also objecting to dry cleaning, which can (and does) alter the appearance more than pressing many cases. Pedigree marks, arrival or date writing, dirt, dust shadows....all erased in many documented cases in order to hide the history of a book or make it look like it survived in better shape than it actually did.

 

It's an easy answer though, just not one they want to hear. No dollars are tied to the practice of dry cleaning, therefore nobody cares.

 

It's all about the money, always has been about the money, and always will be about the money.

I will respond. I hate people doing dry cleaning, especially the poorly done work I have seen like that Captain America 1 (I believe a 7.0) with the real ugly erase of a pencil marking or one of the Batman 1 in 9.0. I would label both a "SA" with a purple label. Again, it can't always be detected but when it is done and done poorly, I think it should be labeled accordingly.

[TupennyConan]

I think you are a performance art project for some twenty something woman in Pittsburgh. I really don't know that I can ever take a post of yours seriously. Half of them are contradictory and resemble a randomly generated string of words.

 

I take nothing you post seriously.

 

I win.

Don't be a sore winner.

 

Not taking that post seriously.

[pickycollector]

So doesn't that explain why pressing is fixated upon, in the context of a hobby where the value of a book can vary wildly based on a single grade increment? Put another way, doesn't this key difference between dry cleaning and pressing at least warrant greater attention on pressing?

 

Maybe, but people here always lament the "preservation" of a book that's lost with pressing. That's not a grade, it's how the book survived the test of time. That's altered with dry cleaning as much or more than it is with pressing in some cases.

 

...and I am not sure I buy the pure collecting side of the argument either. Objections would be more convincing if high grade owners weren't sitting on a pile of assets being slowly depreciated by an influx of pressed books (money again).

 

Clearly, money is a major issue, and it's also clear that there are parties on both sides of this debate that are full of it. But it isn't all about money, nor is this false dichotomy between "profiteers and false profiteers" sufficient to encapsulate the debate.

 

At this end of the hobby, there are razor thin lines separating collectors, dealers and investors. People calling themselves collectors justify spending more than they should on books because of their potential as investments; others calling themselves collectors buy, sell, and PCR one subset of books to be able to afford others. And even those who buy slabs with no intention of selling in the near future have to decide whether or not they're ok with spending $xxxx on Y in 9.4 that was previously sitting in a 9.0 holder.

 

So yeah, money is part of it. But to the extent that you can accuse an anti-presser for being "only about the money", you can also accuse a pro-presser of putting money before the books. It's a ridiculous argument on both sides because there are financial implications for basically anyone who deals with slabs in any capacity.

 

Not much to argue with in that post.

 

It just rubs me the wrong way that a lot of anti-pressers always dress up their arguments in concern for the hobby, or the preservation state of the books, or the potential for damage, or just about anything not related to money when it's pretty clear that the top concern for both sides is just that.

 

I think it is both hobby-related and money-related and I speak for myself here but there are the two reasons why I don't like pressed books as a buyer/collector/investor:

 

1) I don't like the pancake look/flattening spine on most pressed books (collector's point of view)

 

2) I think my unpressed 9.2 should worth more money (and will eventually in the future) than a pressed 9.2 of the same issue (investor's point of view)

 

So yes (and I am sure I will be quoted forever for what I am going to say) there is also money involved in being in an "anti-presser" stance. I would be hypocritical to say otherwise.

 

On another point of view, I feel squeezing the pressing lemon to its upper limits is not a good thing as a hobbyist point of view. To see a nice 9.4 book with a nice plumped and slightly curved spine transformed into a 9.6 book with a flattened/crushed spine that looks like pancake makes me sad all the time (well, almost).

 

I love my spouse with her naturally curved C-cup breast why the heck should I send her to surgery to get man-made D-cup breast ?? Unless I want her to work on the street or as a pole dancer, I see no good aesthetic reason for that.

 

That being said, I do not really consider myself as a ferocious "anti-presser", at least not anymore. I even sent a few books for pressing in 2009-2011 to learn more about the pressing results. Although I finally decided to stop and never sent any more book for pressing since then, I must admit that pressing can enhance the desirabilty and eye-appeal of some books. However, I am all for disclosure.

 

OMG now I will become a paria among the anti-pressers too

 

NO, please, NOOOOOO

 

 

 

 

[gyro-1]

and they answer emails

Thank you all for your feedback on our latest acquisition. While it is difficult to get into an ongoing dialogue with the many CGC users, we would like, at a minimum, to respond to some of the questions that have been raised.

 

We have every intention to continue to operate transparently and welcome both criticism and thoughts on how we can best serve the hobby.

 

While many of you are very critical about some of our business decisions and other operating issues, I will address the following:

 

Turnaround times

No one is more frustrated than all of us at CGC with how far behind we have fallen and we are doing everything in our power to get caught up. Grading is not a business that can be rushed for obvious reasons. Being a CGC grader is not as easy as some of you may think and hiring qualified people that want to grade all day versus working in the marketplace is not an easy hire. We are constantly looking for qualified graders and if any of you would like to apply, we will be happy to evaluate your skills.

 

Conflict of Interest

At the end of the day our credibility is the most integral component of CGC. We have worked for over a decade to build this company into what it has become today. We have no interest in assigning the wrong grade to any book and I can assure you, from the top down at CGC, we all feel the same way. We are not in this for any short-term gain and would like to remain your grading service of choice forever. We take our responsibility to the hobby very seriously and will never abuse your trust.

 

As all of this relates to the purchase of Classics Incorporated, I am happy to consult with an advisory group of your peers to make sure that we do this properly. We are here to make money but we are also here to be transparent and do what is best for the hobby. While it is hard to please everyone, we will certainly go out of our way to address as many of the legitimate concerns that you have. The following is a list of the most frequently asked questions and responses:

 

Can Matt still sell comics?

No, Matt cannot engage in selling comics just like the rest of the employees employed by the Certified Collectibles Group.

 

Is Matt still pressing right now?

Yes, Matt is still taking submissions as normal until the changeover on 2/1/13.

 

When is the cutoff for submitting to Classics before merging?

Any books not finished in Dallas right before 2/1/13 will be transferred to the new office, completed and submitted as usual. This transfer will occur seamlessly.

 

How will the submission process for pressing change?

Customers will still submit through the Classics site as usual. We will most likely streamline the submission form making it even easier.

 

Resto removal?

Classics will still offer this service. However, Classics can now work with CGC to ensure all removal is achieved before grading which will eliminate wasted CGC fees.

 

Will Classics still offer a screening service?

Yes, but only a prescreen service. The traditional proscreen service where Matt assigns a potential grade will end as of 2/1/13.

 

Will graders undergrade to help pressing business?

Absolutely not. CGC grading will not change from what it has always been.

 

If a book is pressed by Classics, will it get an automatic upgrade?

No, the grade of the book is the grade of the book. Not all books are upgraded because they have been pressed. All books from Classics will still be objectively graded, just like every other submission. This is not an upgrade service in any way and there is no assurance that the book will upgrade.

 

As an independent member of the Certified Collectibles Group (CCG) of companies, Classics will operate as a stand alone business separate from CGC.

 

Will CGC still accept books pressed by other companies/people?

Absolutely. The purpose of this acquisition is to offer a high end, streamlined service that our clients deserve. It is not to put anyone out of business.

 

Will Classics’s pressing fees change?

Pricing structure and new turnaround times will be announced shortly.

 

If there are any other questions regarding the merger, please email them to either Harshen Patel at hpatel@cgccomics.com or Matt Nelson at comics@classicsincorporated.com . We’ll release another email answering your additional questions. I want to thank all of you for your input and passion about the hobby and our business. We will continue to keep all of you in the loop as we make final decisions regarding logistics for the Classics integration.

 

Regards,

Steve Eichenbaum

CEO

Certified Collectibles Group

[skypinkblu]

There are several people who are trying to make it sound like the controversy is about jealousy, because people who press make more money.

 

People who don't press certainly COULD press their books , they just for what ever reason, decide not to.

 

I see more people asking for disclosure. However, the people who press books and decide not to disclose and sell them (to make more money or whatever reason) thinking of a zillion excuses for not disclosing...

 

Excuses such as no one cares if you press a book, but if "I disclose SOMEONE might" and "I won't disclose because NO one cares","CGC can't tell" (even if they press them themselves;)...or "it's not something I need to disclose because it's not taking anything away, or putting something back"...etc, etc...I can't even remember them all.

 

To me these excuses seem to be based on the money thing...just a guess, but that's the impression I get;)

 

If not, why not disclose? That would satisfy most of the people on the other sides of the triangle...the purist anti pressers and the people who want disclosure;)

 

But that's just my opinion and BTW, I enjoy Tupenny's posts, they are like doing the Sunday Times Crossword, kind of impossible to figure out, but when you do:) you get a rush;).

[comicwiz]

There are several people who are trying to make it sound like the controversy is about jealousy, because people who press make more money.

 

People who don't press certainly COULD press their books , they just for what ever reason, decide not to.

 

I see more people asking for disclosure. However, the people who press books and decide not to disclose and sell them (to make more money or whatever reason) thinking of a zillion excuses for not disclosing...

 

Excuses such as no one cares if you press a book, but if "I disclose SOMEONE might" and "I won't disclose because NO one cares","CGC can't tell" (even if they press them themselves;)...or "it's not something I need to disclose because it's not taking anything away, or putting something back"...etc, etc...I can't even remember them all.

 

To me these excuses seem to be based on the money thing...just a guess, but that's the impression I get;)

 

If not, why not disclose?

 

It would confuse collectors.

[skypinkblu]

There are several people who are trying to make it sound like the controversy is about jealousy, because people who press make more money.

 

People who don't press certainly COULD press their books , they just for what ever reason, decide not to.

 

I see more people asking for disclosure. However, the people who press books and decide not to disclose and sell them (to make more money or whatever reason) thinking of a zillion excuses for not disclosing...

 

Excuses such as no one cares if you press a book, but if "I disclose SOMEONE might" and "I won't disclose because NO one cares","CGC can't tell" (even if they press them themselves;)...or "it's not something I need to disclose because it's not taking anything away, or putting something back"...etc, etc...I can't even remember them all.

 

To me these excuses seem to be based on the money thing...just a guess, but that's the impression I get;)

 

If not, why not disclose?

 

It would confuse collectors.

 

Told you I couldn't remember them all;)

[Davenport]

There are several people who are trying to make it sound like the controversy is about jealousy, because people who press make more money.

 

People who don't press certainly COULD press their books , they just for what ever reason, decide not to.

 

I see more people asking for disclosure. However, the people who press books and decide not to disclose and sell them (to make more money or whatever reason) thinking of a zillion excuses for not disclosing...

 

Excuses such as no one cares if you press a book, but if "I disclose SOMEONE might" and "I won't disclose because NO one cares","CGC can't tell" (even if they press them themselves;)...or "it's not something I need to disclose because it's not taking anything away, or putting something back"...etc, etc...I can't even remember them all.

 

To me these excuses seem to be based on the money thing...just a guess, but that's the impression I get;)

 

If not, why not disclose? That would satisfy most of the people on the other sides of the triangle...the purist anti pressers and the people who want disclosure;)

 

But that's just my opinion and BTW, I enjoy Tupenny's posts, they are like doing the Sunday Times Crossword, kind of impossible to figure out, but when you do:) you get a rush;).

Spot on.

 

The Game (and debate) falls apart with proactive disclosure. Buyers understanding what is being offered allows transactions to be mutual instead of predatory.

Free market, free will. What's to complain about?

 

 

[batman_fan]

There are several people who are trying to make it sound like the controversy is about jealousy, because people who press make more money.

 

People who don't press certainly COULD press their books , they just for what ever reason, decide not to.

 

I see more people asking for disclosure. However, the people who press books and decide not to disclose and sell them (to make more money or whatever reason) thinking of a zillion excuses for not disclosing...

 

Excuses such as no one cares if you press a book, but if "I disclose SOMEONE might" and "I won't disclose because NO one cares","CGC can't tell" (even if they press them themselves;)...or "it's not something I need to disclose because it's not taking anything away, or putting something back"...etc, etc...I can't even remember them all.

 

To me these excuses seem to be based on the money thing...just a guess, but that's the impression I get;)

 

If not, why not disclose? That would satisfy most of the people on the other sides of the triangle...the purist anti pressers and the people who want disclosure;)

 

But that's just my opinion and BTW, I enjoy Tupenny's posts, they are like doing the Sunday Times Crossword, kind of impossible to figure out, but when you do:) you get a rush;).

 

You are 100% correct.

[ComicConnoisseur]

Do you think there's anything "weird" about a System that degrades a comic book for tiny non-damaged paper irregularities (easily reversed with common pressing techniques), but has no problem with completely undoing the original factory book-assembly?

 

 

What's with all the cryptic graemlin posts all the time, like you're The Thinker and delving into some deep mystery?

 

 

 

Because when you whisper more people pay attention and think.

 

 

[TupennyConan]

I enjoy Tupenny's posts, they are like doing the Sunday Times Crossword, kind of impossible to figure out, but when you do:) you get a rush;).

Spot on.

 

 

[TupennyConan]

I enjoy Tupenny's posts, they are like doing the Sunday Times Crossword, kind of impossible to figure out, but when you do:) you get a rush;).

 

You are 100% correct.

[comicwiz]

There are several people who are trying to make it sound like the controversy is about jealousy, because people who press make more money.

 

People who don't press certainly COULD press their books , they just for what ever reason, decide not to.

 

I see more people asking for disclosure. However, the people who press books and decide not to disclose and sell them (to make more money or whatever reason) thinking of a zillion excuses for not disclosing...

 

Excuses such as no one cares if you press a book, but if "I disclose SOMEONE might" and "I won't disclose because NO one cares","CGC can't tell" (even if they press them themselves;)...or "it's not something I need to disclose because it's not taking anything away, or putting something back"...etc, etc...I can't even remember them all.

 

To me these excuses seem to be based on the money thing...just a guess, but that's the impression I get;)

 

If not, why not disclose?

 

It would confuse collectors.

 

Told you I couldn't remember them all;)

 

 

I see low oxygen induced absent-mindedness soon making the cut.. you know, with all the trending talk about "natural" alteration...

 

 

[Davenport]

I enjoy Tupenny's posts, they are like doing the Sunday Times Crossword, kind of impossible to figure out, but when you do:) you get a rush;).

Spot on.

 

 

(thumbs u ahhhh, the rush...