Anyone Else Catch This Article on Alan Moore's Source Material?

[comix4fun]

Oh and have you seen what Morrison thinks of Batman as a character?

 

He reminds me of radio shock jocks, saying anything, doing anything to call attention to themselves, in a desperate "look at me look at me" marketing plan.

 

 

From his playboy interview:

 

Morrison: He’s very plutonian in the sense that he’s wealthy and also in the sense that he’s sexually deviant. Gayness is built into Batman. I’m not using gay in the pejorative sense, but Batman is very, very gay. There’s just no denying it. Obviously as a fictional character he’s intended to be heterosexual, but the basis of the whole concept is utterly gay. I think that’s why people like it. All these women fancy him and they all wear fetish clothes and jump around rooftops to get to him. He doesn’t care—he’s more interested in hanging out with the old guy and the kid.”

 

 

So much to be offended about, that he's monkeying with a classic character this way, and that he's equated gayness with sexual deviancy in this way. To hear this, from the person who was writing Batman at the time he said it, has all the earmarks of a carnival barker desperately begging people to enter his tent and "See the Bearded Lady...all in color, for a dime."

[comix4fun]

Oof. All done and I retain my earlier thoughts.

 

The more I read of Morrison, the less I like him.

 

 

 

 

Batman R.I.P. wasn't enough to do that already?

 

Morrison is a terrible hack but Batman R.I.P I have yet the pleasure to read.

 

 

 

If you are ever feeling happy and fulfilled in your reading this is the antidote.

[Maccai3]

Oof. All done and I retain my earlier thoughts.

 

The more I read of Morrison, the less I like him.

 

 

 

 

Batman R.I.P. wasn't enough to do that already?

 

Morrison is a terrible hack but Batman R.I.P I have yet the pleasure to read.

 

 

Signed, Sealed, Delivered.I'm Yours!

[Ogami]

Oof. All done and I retain my earlier thoughts.

 

The more I read of Morrison, the less I like him.

 

 

 

 

Batman R.I.P. wasn't enough to do that already?

 

I have not had the pleasure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just drew a bath (I plan on using as many English idioms as I can in this thread) and the thought popped into my head.

 

We cannot control that we will be influenced by earlier works. That's simply not how the human mind and the creative consciousness (and sub) works.

 

What we CAN do is choose the influences. In other words, we all make choices about the works we read, see, hear, watch and we all make works based on the things we love and/or hate.

 

Moore is an ancient and Morrison is a punk. Need more be said?

 

 

 

 

Marry Poppins, fish and chips, que, boot, hang'on there, (I have a quota)

[ComicConnoisseur]

Holy Moly. You mean a writer was influenced by someone else's work?

Better round up George Lucas next, cause none of THAT is original either.

 

No kidding, right? It just really make me look at the whole Before Watchmen controversy in a new light. Not so much about corporate doing what corporate does to make a buck. Business as usual there. Instead, I find I'm really reconsidering Moore's moral ground here... in the most recent article on the subject on The Beat, Grant Morrison provides a response to this one, and it has a highly relevant discussion about Moore's criticism of Geoff Johns, his work on Green Lantern, and the acceptability of using past work in present continuity.

 

In any event, interesting and thought-provoking stuff once... once you plow through it all!

 

Thank you for the article, I hadn't seen that yet! It does bring some thought-provoking topics to light, even though I think some of them are misguided.

I'm just not sure they understand Moore's point, which is really him saying that there aren't a lot of new ideas in comics. Which there aren't. It's all pretty stale at Marvel and DC by pretty much anyone's standards that remembers the Silver Age of comics.

We hear it here on the boards from those of us who miss the excitement of that period.

These companies just keep regurgitating the same stuff over and over and it isn't really helping to create anything lasting.

And this need to vilify Alan Moore over it by Big Two apologists is kinda sad really.

His influence and the way he told his stories, regardless of what the influences were, will remain important in the history of this hobby, while I think tripe like Before Watchmen and One More Day will be retconned or forgotten very quickly.

The book Superfolks, itself directly influenced by other writers works from comics, didn't have any impact on the comic industry. The way Moore incorporated some of those ideas did.

It's no different than Stan and Jack creating their own Jekyll & Hyde with the Hulk, or Norse God in Thor or even Jack's own Challengers of the Unknown with the Fantastic Four.

It's the way they did it and turned it into something new and exciting in comics.

There's a difference and some of these critics don't seem to understand it.

 

 

+1

[ComicConnoisseur]

I don't think that Morrison is an Alan Moore clone any more than Alan Moore is a product of his experiences and influences. Perhaps his work does not have the same impact on pop culture that Moore's work has, but he's written some darn good stories IMO. I like both guys' work; I don't think to enjoy one is to preclude enjoying the others'.

 

This is really a question of originality and where it all begins. I'm a big proponent of what has already been said: it's not the story you tell, it's how you tell it. And both these writers have written some well-crafted stories that have enriched the industry.

Grant Morrision became such a bad clone of Alan Moore that I got turned off on that dark n gritty style that now dominates comics. I had to re-read Alan Moore`s Watchmen,Miracleman and Swampthing to appreciate what a genuis Alan Moore trully was to mainstream comics.

Grant Morrision and all the clones of Grant Morrision and clones of Alan Moore are the one`s that really are pedestrian.

So in conclusion Alan Moore is the comic book master,while it`s too bad DC gave the keys to Grant Morrision so he can write DC`s best characters Superman and Batman mediocrely this last decade.

(thumbs u

 

 

[Maccai3]

Oof. All done and I retain my earlier thoughts.

 

The more I read of Morrison, the less I like him.

 

 

 

 

Batman R.I.P. wasn't enough to do that already?

 

 

 

Marry Poppins, fish and chips, que, boot, hang'on there, (I have a quota)

 

 

do you mean queue?

 

 

 

also...

 

oh Grant, were did it all go wrong?

[seanfingh]

Morrison's Animal Man, Doom Patrol and JLA will always be favorites of mine. He unfortunately was never satisfied with being a very good comic book writer. He has wanted to be controversial. Taking shots at Alan Moore, putting out his thoughts on Batman as a sexual deviant etc. has taken the place of being a very good comic book writer. Pretty sad.

[MedicAR]

Okay, I read the articles but no responses here, so I'm sorry if I rehash some of the same points. I just didn't want to be unduly influenced by the opinions of others here.

 

The article(s) started out to be very damning of Alan Moore. From the outset, it appeared clear that the author was going after Alan Moore in a way that would make Vlad the Impaler shudder. It seemed so obvious that Moore had completely ripped off Super-Folks that the next two segments could never have possibly come from the same author. The second segment redeemed Moore completely and made solid points about many, many other potential sources literally through the ages.

 

The final segment was the heart of it all, though. I haven't read much "behind-the-scenes" information about Moore or Morrison, so I'm taking the author's points solely on what was presented. I fully understand Morrison's punk influences and the way he went about building a name for himself. I'm not saying it was ethical or even smart, but it did get him attention and that attention got him to where he is today. In the end, the author seemed to be trying to make some kind of peace between the two talented titans. He sides with Moore while apologizing for Morrison and maybe that's what all of us, as fans, should do. Just know that there are influences behind everything, that personalities can get in the way, and we enjoy different things for different reasons.

[MedicAR]

Morrison's Animal Man, Doom Patrol and JLA will always be favorites of mine. He unfortunately was never satisfied with being a very good comic book writer. He has wanted to be controversial. Taking shots at Alan Moore, putting out his thoughts on Batman as a sexual deviant etc. has taken the place of being a very good comic book writer. Pretty sad.

 

Agreed. To coin a phrase, "shut up and sing." His writing was good enough that he would have gotten plenty of attention without the controversy, and in fact did. Animal Man and Doom Patrol are both favorites of mine.

[comix4fun]

Morrison's Animal Man, Doom Patrol and JLA will always be favorites of mine. He unfortunately was never satisfied with being a very good comic book writer. He has wanted to be controversial. Taking shots at Alan Moore, putting out his thoughts on Batman as a sexual deviant etc. has taken the place of being a very good comic book writer. Pretty sad.

 

 

This.

 

If only everything he did was as good as the AM and DP work.

At some point he fell in love with the sizzle at the expense of the steak.

[500Club]

Morrison: He’s very plutonian in the sense that he’s wealthy and also in the sense that he’s sexually deviant. Gayness is built into Batman. I’m not using gay in the pejorative sense, but Batman is very, very gay. There’s just no denying it. Obviously as a fictional character he’s intended to be heterosexual, but the basis of the whole concept is utterly gay. I think that’s why people like it. All these women fancy him and they all wear fetish clothes and jump around rooftops to get to him. He doesn’t care—he’s more interested in hanging out with the old guy and the kid.”

 

 

So much to be offended about, that he's monkeying with a classic character this way, and that he's equated gayness with sexual deviancy in this way. To hear this, from the person who was writing Batman at the time he said it, has all the earmarks of a carnival barker desperately begging people to enter his tent and "See the Bearded Lady...all in color, for a dime."

Morrison seems to want to be seen as a deep thinker. It all comes off as somewhat forced, though.

[comix4fun]

Morrison: He’s very plutonian in the sense that he’s wealthy and also in the sense that he’s sexually deviant. Gayness is built into Batman. I’m not using gay in the pejorative sense, but Batman is very, very gay. There’s just no denying it. Obviously as a fictional character he’s intended to be heterosexual, but the basis of the whole concept is utterly gay. I think that’s why people like it. All these women fancy him and they all wear fetish clothes and jump around rooftops to get to him. He doesn’t care—he’s more interested in hanging out with the old guy and the kid.”

 

 

So much to be offended about, that he's monkeying with a classic character this way, and that he's equated gayness with sexual deviancy in this way. To hear this, from the person who was writing Batman at the time he said it, has all the earmarks of a carnival barker desperately begging people to enter his tent and "See the Bearded Lady...all in color, for a dime."

Morrison seems to want to be seen as a deep thinker. It all comes off as somewhat forced, though.

 

 

I agree. It feels much like those reality show episodes where they bring a TV crew with them to do charity work.

[Comicopolis]

Still haven't read the other two parts as I'm going through the comments on the first page - quite a few comic-book heavy weights chiming in.

[Speedy-D]

Oh and have you seen what Morrison thinks of Batman as a character?

 

He reminds me of radio shock jocks, saying anything, doing anything to call attention to themselves, in a desperate "look at me look at me" marketing plan.

 

 

From his playboy interview:

 

Morrison: He’s very plutonian in the sense that he’s wealthy and also in the sense that he’s sexually deviant. Gayness is built into Batman. I’m not using gay in the pejorative sense, but Batman is very, very gay. There’s just no denying it. Obviously as a fictional character he’s intended to be heterosexual, but the basis of the whole concept is utterly gay. I think that’s why people like it. All these women fancy him and they all wear fetish clothes and jump around rooftops to get to him. He doesn’t care—he’s more interested in hanging out with the old guy and the kid.”

 

 

So much to be offended about, that he's monkeying with a classic character this way, and that he's equated gayness with sexual deviancy in this way. To hear this, from the person who was writing Batman at the time he said it, has all the earmarks of a carnival barker desperately begging people to enter his tent and "See the Bearded Lady...all in color, for a dime."

There's homoerotic undercurrents in the Batman character? Good lord, that is a seriously boring position to take. At this point, the only interesting angle a writer can take on Batman's sexuality is to ignore it.

 

I won't even go into Morrison's fluid equation of homosexuality with pedophilia.

[Ogami]

Still haven't read the other two parts as I'm going through the comments on the first page - quite a few comic-book heavy weights chiming in.

 

Ooh. I'll have to go back and read those.

[Ogami]

Okay, I read the articles but no responses here, so I'm sorry if I rehash some of the same points. I just didn't want to be unduly influenced by the opinions of others here.

 

The article(s) started out to be very damning of Alan Moore. From the outset, it appeared clear that the author was going after Alan Moore in a way that would make Vlad the Impaler shudder. It seemed so obvious that Moore had completely ripped off Super-Folks that the next two segments could never have possibly come from the same author. The second segment redeemed Moore completely and made solid points about many, many other potential sources literally through the ages.

 

The final segment was the heart of it all, though. I haven't read much "behind-the-scenes" information about Moore or Morrison, so I'm taking the author's points solely on what was presented. I fully understand Morrison's punk influences and the way he went about building a name for himself. I'm not saying it was ethical or even smart, but it did get him attention and that attention got him to where he is today. In the end, the author seemed to be trying to make some kind of peace between the two talented titans. He sides with Moore while apologizing for Morrison and maybe that's what all of us, as fans, should do. Just know that there are influences behind everything, that personalities can get in the way, and we enjoy different things for different reasons.

 

Well said.

[Ogami]

I neither hate nor love Morrison.

 

I like The Invisibles and Doom Patrol, have yet to read Animal Man and Seaguy and We3.

 

I simply adore The Filth (yes, I know). Interestingly, it is his most humane work, so most like Alan Moore.

 

I do not care for most of his other work.

 

 

 

But at the end of the day, I do not admire his ethos.

[comicwiz]

I have never read any of Moore's work. The Watchmen movie was unwatchable. Before the Watchmen, it wasn't like I made a conscious effort to avoid his work. His work just never really appealed to me in any way. Take what I just said with a grain of salt, especially since post-90's comics were a blackout period. However after reading this article, I find no compelling reason to make any effort to catch-up and read his work.

[comix4fun]

I have never read any of Moore's work. The Watchmen movie was unwatchable. Before the Watchmen, it wasn't like I made a conscious effort to avoid his work. His work just never really appealed to me in any way. Take what I just said with a grain of salt, especially since post-90's comics were a blackout period. However after reading this article, I find no compelling reason to make any effort to catch-up and read his work.

 

 

Just two words: Swamp Thing.

 

 

It's too good to pass up and so incredibly well done.