Anyone Else Catch This Article on Alan Moore's Source Material?

[comix4fun]

Still haven't read the other two parts as I'm going through the comments on the first page - quite a few comic-book heavy weights chiming in.

 

Ooh. I'll have to go back and read those.

 

 

I only noticed Busiek and Brubaker, but they both make great points.

[comicwiz]

I have never read any of Moore's work. The Watchmen movie was unwatchable. Before the Watchmen, it wasn't like I made a conscious effort to avoid his work. His work just never really appealed to me in any way. Take what I just said with a grain of salt, especially since post-90's comics were a blackout period. However after reading this article, I find no compelling reason to make any effort to catch-up and read his work.

 

 

Just two words: Swamp Thing.

 

 

It's too good to pass up and so incredibly well done.

 

You know, I think the guy I bought the bound volumes from had a few Swamp Things...

[comix4fun]

I have never read any of Moore's work. The Watchmen movie was unwatchable. Before the Watchmen, it wasn't like I made a conscious effort to avoid his work. His work just never really appealed to me in any way. Take what I just said with a grain of salt, especially since post-90's comics were a blackout period. However after reading this article, I find no compelling reason to make any effort to catch-up and read his work.

 

 

Just two words: Swamp Thing.

 

 

It's too good to pass up and so incredibly well done.

 

You know, I think the guy I bought the bound volumes had a few Swamp Things...

 

 

You've got to check out the Moore books. I think it's his best work.

He moved past the overly verbose prose from MIracle Man, and it was before he got into revamping old literary characters.

 

It's a real sweet spot for his work. Less words, more impact. It's very mature work. He deals in themes of love and loss and regret. It's really amazing and hold up today more than most of his other work.

 

I especially love issue #28. The metaphors are so poignant and well executed the story can bring a tear to your eye.

[Ogami]

Two things:

 

From part one, there is a quote from Mark Twain that, in my humble opinion, puts all of this to bed. Scan down for it- it's a long quote and excellent, as from a Master.

 

And there is this, a link from the comments to Rick Veitch's page showing a conversation between him, Gaiman, Bissette, and Tom Veitch over Superfolks.

 

http://www.rickveitch.com/tag/revisionist-superhero/

[Ogami]

I have never read any of Moore's work. The Watchmen movie was unwatchable. Before the Watchmen, it wasn't like I made a conscious effort to avoid his work. His work just never really appealed to me in any way. Take what I just said with a grain of salt, especially since post-90's comics were a blackout period. However after reading this article, I find no compelling reason to make any effort to catch-up and read his work.

 

 

Just two words: Swamp Thing.

 

 

It's too good to pass up and so incredibly well done.

 

You know, I think the guy I bought the bound volumes had a few Swamp Things...

 

 

You've got to check out the Moore books. I think it's his best work.

He moved past the overly verbose prose from MIracle Man, and it was before he got into revamping old literary characters.

 

It's a real sweet spot for his work. Less words, more impact. It's very mature work. He deals in themes of love and loss and regret. It's really amazing and hold up today more than most of his other work.

 

I especially love issue #28. The metaphors are so poignant and well executed the story can bring a tear to your eye.

 

To read one of the replies to part one, he stole huge chunks of Swamp Thing from a Spanish novel.

 

Not that that is my opinion. Just continuing to add layers to the onion that is Alan Moore.

[comix4fun]

I have never read any of Moore's work. The Watchmen movie was unwatchable. Before the Watchmen, it wasn't like I made a conscious effort to avoid his work. His work just never really appealed to me in any way. Take what I just said with a grain of salt, especially since post-90's comics were a blackout period. However after reading this article, I find no compelling reason to make any effort to catch-up and read his work.

 

 

Just two words: Swamp Thing.

 

 

It's too good to pass up and so incredibly well done.

 

You know, I think the guy I bought the bound volumes had a few Swamp Things...

 

 

You've got to check out the Moore books. I think it's his best work.

He moved past the overly verbose prose from MIracle Man, and it was before he got into revamping old literary characters.

 

It's a real sweet spot for his work. Less words, more impact. It's very mature work. He deals in themes of love and loss and regret. It's really amazing and hold up today more than most of his other work.

 

I especially love issue #28. The metaphors are so poignant and well executed the story can bring a tear to your eye.

 

To read one of the replies to part one, he stole huge chunks of Swamp Thing from a Spanish novel.

 

Not that that is my opinion. Just continuing to add layers to the onion that is Alan Moore.

 

 

I just saw that. "The Master and Margarita"....that's a pretty thin allusion if there is one at all. The best part of that arc (26-28) is Moore working the existing Swamp Thing continuity in a way that speaks to universal human struggle.

 

People are nuts.

[MedicAR]

I have never read any of Moore's work. The Watchmen movie was unwatchable. Before the Watchmen, it wasn't like I made a conscious effort to avoid his work. His work just never really appealed to me in any way. Take what I just said with a grain of salt, especially since post-90's comics were a blackout period. However after reading this article, I find no compelling reason to make any effort to catch-up and read his work.

 

 

Just two words: Swamp Thing.

 

 

It's too good to pass up and so incredibly well done.

 

You know, I think the guy I bought the bound volumes had a few Swamp Things...

 

 

You've got to check out the Moore books. I think it's his best work.

He moved past the overly verbose prose from MIracle Man, and it was before he got into revamping old literary characters.

 

It's a real sweet spot for his work. Less words, more impact. It's very mature work. He deals in themes of love and loss and regret. It's really amazing and hold up today more than most of his other work.

 

I especially love issue #28. The metaphors are so poignant and well executed the story can bring a tear to your eye.

 

To read one of the replies to part one, he stole huge chunks of Swamp Thing from a Spanish novel.

 

Not that that is my opinion. Just continuing to add layers to the onion that is Alan Moore.

 

So that's what he is to you? An onion? He makes you cry? Good in small amounts but can quickly become overpowering? Lingers on the tongue? Often produces heartburn? When he comes out of your mouth, other turn and run?

 

 

 

[Ogami]

Well one thing I AM convinced of- Watchmen owes its origins to Superduperman, from Mad Comics #4 much more than any other work.

 

So speaks Moore and Gaiman.

[Ogami]

I have never read any of Moore's work. The Watchmen movie was unwatchable. Before the Watchmen, it wasn't like I made a conscious effort to avoid his work. His work just never really appealed to me in any way. Take what I just said with a grain of salt, especially since post-90's comics were a blackout period. However after reading this article, I find no compelling reason to make any effort to catch-up and read his work.

 

 

Just two words: Swamp Thing.

 

 

It's too good to pass up and so incredibly well done.

 

You know, I think the guy I bought the bound volumes had a few Swamp Things...

 

 

You've got to check out the Moore books. I think it's his best work.

He moved past the overly verbose prose from MIracle Man, and it was before he got into revamping old literary characters.

 

It's a real sweet spot for his work. Less words, more impact. It's very mature work. He deals in themes of love and loss and regret. It's really amazing and hold up today more than most of his other work.

 

I especially love issue #28. The metaphors are so poignant and well executed the story can bring a tear to your eye.

 

To read one of the replies to part one, he stole huge chunks of Swamp Thing from a Spanish novel.

 

Not that that is my opinion. Just continuing to add layers to the onion that is Alan Moore.

 

So that's what he is to you? An onion? He makes you cry? Good in small amounts but can quickly become overpowering? Lingers on the tongue? Often produces heartburn? When he comes out of your mouth, other turn and run?

 

 

 

 

[Ogami]

Still haven't read the other two parts as I'm going through the comments on the first page - quite a few comic-book heavy weights chiming in.

 

Ooh. I'll have to go back and read those.

 

 

I only noticed Busiek and Brubaker, but they both make great points.

 

The author of Superfolks also made a few posts, (and absolved Moore ) .

[TupennyConan]

I will throw-in with the hate Morrison crowd.

 

I hate him.

[Ogami]

Well,

 

I would like to thank Forrest for this thread and a most entertaining derailment of my few spare moments today. I seriously needed it.

 

And I would like to thank Comicopolis for his kind reply this morning and for telling me (us) to go back and read the comments, which led to a second, just as entertaining derailment, also sorely needed.

 

And thanks to Caira just for being Caira.

 

 

[500Club]

I have never read any of Moore's work. The Watchmen movie was unwatchable. Before the Watchmen, it wasn't like I made a conscious effort to avoid his work. His work just never really appealed to me in any way. Take what I just said with a grain of salt, especially since post-90's comics were a blackout period. However after reading this article, I find no compelling reason to make any effort to catch-up and read his work.

Do.

 

There are some things about Moore's views that can be debated, but there is no debating that he is a great writer, certainly one of the best the medium has seen.

 

And, as far as influences, barring sheer plagiarism, I think it's a non issue. As others have stated in the thread, every creator has influences.

[comix4fun]

I will throw-in with the hate Morrison crowd.

 

I hate him.

 

 

He stole my childhood, and my Skittles.

[TupennyConan]

I will throw-in with the hate Morrison crowd.

 

I hate him.

 

 

He stole my childhood, and my Skittles.

 

 

[Speedy-D]

I have never read any of Moore's work. The Watchmen movie was unwatchable. Before the Watchmen, it wasn't like I made a conscious effort to avoid his work. His work just never really appealed to me in any way. Take what I just said with a grain of salt, especially since post-90's comics were a blackout period. However after reading this article, I find no compelling reason to make any effort to catch-up and read his work.

 

 

Just two words: Swamp Thing.

 

 

It's too good to pass up and so incredibly well done.

That's the business right there! The first 10 or so issues of Miracle Man were killer too. And as played as the sentiment seems to be these days, when it came out Watchmen was the best comic I'd ever read by such a long shot it was ridiculous. Dark Knight was very cool, but Watchmen was real writing.

[Zonker]

I will throw-in with the hate Morrison crowd.

 

I hate him.

 

Never met the man, so kinda hard to hate him. I will say though that in addition to his 1980s Animal Man and Doom Patrol, his JLA starting in 1997 single-handedly brought me back to reading comics set in the DC Universe proper. At that post-Sandman point, I was one foot out the door, only picking up James Robinson's Starman with any regularity.

 

So without Morrison, I'd've missed out on Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis & its many tie-ins, Countdown to Final Crisis, Final Crisis itself, the Death of Batman, Blackest Night/Brightest Day, Flashpoint, and the New 52.

 

 

Never mind, I hate him too.

[Logan510]

I have never read any of Moore's work. The Watchmen movie was unwatchable. Before the Watchmen, it wasn't like I made a conscious effort to avoid his work. His work just never really appealed to me in any way. Take what I just said with a grain of salt, especially since post-90's comics were a blackout period. However after reading this article, I find no compelling reason to make any effort to catch-up and read his work.

 

 

Just two words: Swamp Thing.

 

 

It's too good to pass up and so incredibly well done.

That's the business right there! The first 10 or so issues of Miracle Man were killer too. And as played as the sentiment seems to be these days, when it came out Watchmen was the best comic I'd ever read by such a long shot it was ridiculous. Dark Knight was very cool, but Watchmen was real writing.

 

 

for the bolded part

[Mac Man]

Le'ts face it: this is tricky stuff. We're debating about what formed one of the most significant contributions to the comics canon. And it gets tricky when these creators are still around. Additionally, it wasn't long ago that the First Wave of creators passed away, so this medium is still pretty new... which means there's still room for writers and artists to make a name for themselves in this developing canon. So egos are definitely going to surface and supporters for each side will make their respective cases.

 

I think one of the most important points we need to consider comes from another literary movement, which seems fair game since both authors are all too aware of lit criticism. I say the author is dead. Sure, Moore and Morrison can tell us their influences, but why do we need to necessarily believe them? Isn't it possible they fail to see other cultural influences working into their writings? Of course! Heck! Composition theory informs most good writing teachers that students can more readily identify the errors in other students' writing before their own; why then is it any different when it comes to the influences?

 

So no, I don't think Moore is wrong for being influenced by others. What's important is, as others have pointed out, he takes the formula and presents it in such a way that forces readers to look at it from a different perspective. Where he errs is in believing the formula to be of his own making. Like many storytellers before him, he's able to take the old and make it new; however, he is not creating these stories without outside influence. So I'm not sure I can agree with his disdain for other writers participating in the same act of storytelling that he has done. Maybe he's done a better job than most? By all means. But there's no reason they can take their turn at the wheel.

 

As to Morrison, I'm a little indifferent. I think there are about three of us in this camp. I like some of his work; other stuff feels too forced at times. I think he's particularly savvy when it comes to self-marketing, and his semi-autobiographical/ semi-critical work [i[supergods[/i] is a testament to both his desire to cement his role in the comics canon (and his ego) as well as some of his better writing. It's a good microcosm for the man--ego and intellect rolled into one.

 

In any event, I thought I'd pass this on to y'all since it was pretty interesting (if time consuming) to sit back and go through all 3 parts of the original piece and then response by Morrison (along with all of the lovely comments from readers!)

[Ogami]

 

So no, I don't think Moore is wrong for being influenced by others. What's important is, as others have pointed out, he takes the formula and presents it in such a way that forces readers to look at it from a different perspective. Where he errs is in believing the formula to be of his own making. Like many storytellers before him, he's able to take the old and make it new; however, he is not creating these stories without outside influence. So I'm not sure I can agree with his disdain for other writers participating in the same act of storytelling that he has done. Maybe he's done a better job than most? By all means. But there's no reason they can take their turn at the wheel.

 

 

The bolded bit is the only point I disagree with.

 

I feel that Moore is only too willing to acknowledge influences and only has his back up, on this issue, because he feels that

 

1) The Superfolks influence has been unduly emphasized (and I agree)

 

perpetrated by

 

2) the man, Grant Morrison.

 

And as to letting others take their turn at the wheel, as I said back on page one, I think the timing concerns him more than the act itself. He's still kicking- let him retain mastery of his works a little longer. I can't possibly fathom AM minding others working the clay after he's gone.