Mystery on two pages in each board in the 70s...

[Ferran Delgado]

I read in another thread that in the 70s Marvel decided to order the artists to draw two pages in a single board to save costs, since Marvel would pay only for one page. But this initiative only lasted one month.

 

This question came when I saw one page in the net from Marvel Team-up #23 with two pages in one board.

 

The problem came when I just found another page with this look in Comiconnect that belongs to Marvel Team-Up #30, which ruins this theory.

 

I also searched for pages like these in random books with these cover dates in CAF (July, 1974 and Feb, 1975) but they look normal. Maybe they were cut and sold individually...

 

Does someone has more info about this item? Could it be that #30 was inventory?

 

In both cases lettering was done apart, probably in boards with regular size because there were no lettering pens so small.

 

As curiosity, in Spain we lettered at comic size because this was the size of the veloxes provided by Marvel. We worked with rapidographs size 0,2-0,4mm, that I manipulated to imitate the look of a lettering pen. We lettered in boards with a pattern printed and blue and then we pasted it to the xeroxes. This was a problem with letterers that worked smaller, because we only had an unique size of the pattern.

 

 

[lb jefferies]

Team-Up used inventory stories all the time. Probably the most likely explanation

[Ferran Delgado]

I agree...

Does anyone know of another case of two pages in one board? This would allow to locate the exact month that this happened, because MTU #23 could also be inventory.

[christosgage-migration]

Hi Ferran,

 

I asked the same question when I bought the MTU 23 page you show above. Several people told me it was an attempt to cut costs, as you say, by having the artist do two pages on one board and only paying them for one page. Apparently this was only done once per issue, probably because they knew the artists would be unhappy about it, and it didn't last long.

 

I think someone told me there is a Marvel Two-In-One page/pages like this somewhere on CAF...issue 5, with the Guardians of the Galaxy, and that coollines has a Creatures On The Loose set like this, and comic link had/has a Living Mummy pair of pages like it from Supernatural Thrillers.

 

Hope that helps!

 

CNG

[Spider-Variant]

I know there is at least one thread on this with a few other examples, ASM 135 to be exact.

 

I posted the months this was suppose to cover in another thread.

 

 

[Ferran Delgado]

Yes, it helps, thank you!

 

This is the page of Marvel Two-In-One #5 (Sept, 1974):

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=284725&GSub=54749

 

Creatures on the Loose #35 (May, 1974):

http://coollinesart.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=288948&ArtistId=479&Details=1&From=Room

 

Supernatural Thrillers - Living Mummy #8 (Aug, 1974):

http://www.comiclink.com/itemdetail.asp?back=%2Fsection%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26id%3D1398%26f1%3Di%2EPublisher%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2EPublisher%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Di%2EIssueNumber%252C%2Bi%2EGenre%26ODire3%3DASC%26pg%3D8&id=799545

 

But the problem is to locate the exact month they were done, since each issue has a different cover date.

[Spider-Variant]

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=179559&Number=3697913#Post3697913

 

Sometime around late 1974 (maybe earlier), Marvel tried cutting production costs and had artists draw two story pages on one art board. The below is borrowed from the previous thread (that thread wasn't about this subject matter):

 

Here is what Tony Isabella, (who worked for Marvel at that time), had to say:

 

"What you have is an attempt by Marvel to cut the actual story page count of their comics without making it obvious that they had done so. All of the issues produced during that period, which I think lasted less than a year, had a page like this. Editorial didn't want to cut the story count to 16 pages of our 32-page comic books.

 

We were told to plot our stories designating two pages which the artists would draw on a single board. Then the production department would blow them up to full size and run them as two seperate pages. Some of us did double-page spreads. Some of us plotted so that the two pages would not appear next to each other and make it obvious that there was something not quite right about them.

 

Eventually, someone figured out that all the extra production work was costing Marvel as much as it was saving by paying for one less page."

 

 

[Ferran Delgado]

Thank you, this is very helpful!

 

I just found this ended auction in eBay with the production art of the splash of ASM #135 (Aug, 1974), with part of the lettering in a different sheet:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ross-Andru-Amazing-Spider-Man-135-Rare-Production-Art-Pg-1-/271061231784

All the lettering is on the artboard with the exception of the characters, which is a different approach than the other issues.

[Ferran Delgado]

If I understood correctly, what Tony says is that each comic only has two pages in one single board, but the rest of the comic is as usual.

 

Marvel Two-in-One #5 proofs that:

 

Page 10, normal:

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=11841&GSub=1473

 

Pages 12-13, two pages in one board:

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=284725&GSub=54749

 

Tony also says that this happened in various issues of the same title during less than a year. This would explain that the different samples hadn't the same cover date.

 

The following pages from Avengers #127 (Sept, 1974) could be the chosen ones:

 

 

[*paull*]

Thank you, this is very helpful!

 

I just found this ended auction in eBay with the production art of the splash of ASM #135 (Aug, 1974), with part of the lettering in a different sheet:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ross-Andru-Amazing-Spider-Man-135-Rare-Production-Art-Pg-1-/271061231784

All the lettering is on the artboard with the exception of the characters, which is a different approach than the other issues.

 

There has been a lot of discussion of this seller on the Boards. There is doubt that this is original production art.

[malvin]

Thank you, this is very helpful!

 

I just found this ended auction in eBay with the production art of the splash of ASM #135 (Aug, 1974), with part of the lettering in a different sheet:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ross-Andru-Amazing-Spider-Man-135-Rare-Production-Art-Pg-1-/271061231784

All the lettering is on the artboard with the exception of the characters, which is a different approach than the other issues.

 

There has been a lot of discussion of this seller on the Boards. There is doubt that this is original production art.

 

I was about to say the same thing, you beat me to it.

 

I would not draw any conclusions regarding production approaches based on their auctions.

 

Malvin

[Ferran Delgado]

Oh, I didn't know about this guy.

 

Anyway, it looks like the couple of pages drawn in one board in ASM #135 are these, so probably the splash has the usual size.

 

[Spider-Variant]

There are a couple of more ASM pages I would bet are done on one page from that time period.

 

I don't have the issues in front of me right now, but I will throw out a few pages I think were done on one art board and see if you agree when I get a chance.

 

 

[Ferran Delgado]

This is my bet...

 

Notice how text is not centered in some balloons, specially in the DPS of #136. I know that lettering by hand is not usually centered, but they are placed in an odd way. Difficult to explain, but it looks to me that text and balloons were drawn in separate boards, which coincide with the production art of the splash of #135.

 

-ASM #133:

 

-ASM #134:

 

-ASM #136:

[Spider-Variant]

Yep, those are exactly the pages I am thinking.

 

Plus pull up Issue 139, the page where the Grizzly has Spider-Man by the foot.

 

Think that is the last one.

[Ferran Delgado]

Nice catch!

 

 

Although I wonder if these from #131 are included in the set. Text in some balloons are out of center in a weird way...

 

 

[Spider-Variant]

I think so, never really noticed that one. But it is the same layout as the 133 and 134 issues. 3 long panels on one side and a splash on the other.

 

That would give us 131, 133-136, and 139.

 

Issue 132 was drawn by John Romita, so I can imagine he may have done his own thing, since he wasn't the regular artist.

 

 

[Spider-Variant]

Thank you, this is very helpful!

 

I just found this ended auction in eBay with the production art of the splash of ASM #135 (Aug, 1974), with part of the lettering in a different sheet:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ross-Andru-Amazing-Spider-Man-135-Rare-Production-Art-Pg-1-/271061231784

All the lettering is on the artboard with the exception of the characters, which is a different approach than the other issues.

 

Ferran, not sure what you are trying to say here.

 

I have seen a scan of the Original Art Splash for ASM #135 and the words are written on the page, like most other art from the time.

 

I am not familiar with the production process, so I do not know why the transparency had the words and characters separated. This may be the normal practice.

 

For the pages we are talking about (two pages on one art board), the scaling factor would be different than a normal page. This lack of resolution is what was tipping me off.

 

 

[Ferran Delgado]

Thank you, this is very helpful!

 

I just found this ended auction in eBay with the production art of the splash of ASM #135 (Aug, 1974), with part of the lettering in a different sheet:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ross-Andru-Amazing-Spider-Man-135-Rare-Production-Art-Pg-1-/271061231784

All the lettering is on the artboard with the exception of the characters, which is a different approach than the other issues.

 

Ferran, not sure what you are trying to say here.

 

I have seen a scan of the Original Art Splash for ASM #135 and the words are written on the page, like most other art from the time.

 

I am not familiar with the production process, so I do not know why the transparency had the words and characters separated. This may be the normal practice.

 

For the pages we are talking about (two pages on one art board), the scaling factor would be different than a normal page. This lack of resolution is what was tipping me off.

 

If you take a look at the artwork of two-pages-in-one-board, you'll see that it didn't include the lettering, probably because letterers couldn't mimic the same look at smaller size. So probably they lettered it in another board like in the case of Phoenix the Untold Story.

 

At first, I thought that the practice of two-pages-in-one-single-board affected the whole comic. Hence that when I saw the production art of the splash of ASM #135, it made sense to find the text separated from the drawing. But when I was warned about the seller of production art and I found out that the only art affected by this practice were two interior pages, I realized that probably the splash was regular art, as you confirmed.

 

Based on the samples found in the net, lettering in these pages was done in another board. But there are different ways to do it:

 

-The first way is like comics are done nowadays: the drawing covers all, and then lettering with balloons are done in a separate board and then merged in production. This is the case of the Marvel Two-in-One page:

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=284725&GSub=54749

The main problem of this method, is that artists have to draw parts which will be covered with the lettering, which is a waste of time.

 

-Second way is to calculate the room covered by lettering, and leave empty room, like in the case of the Supernatural page:

http://www.comiclink.com/itemdetail.asp?back=%2Fsection%2Easp%3F_SORT%3DYES%26id%3D1398%26f1%3Di%2EPublisher%26ODire1%3DDESC%26f2%3Di%2EPublisher%26ODire2%3DASC%26f3%3Di%2EIssueNumber%252C%2Bi%2EGenre%26ODire3%3DASC%26pg%3D8&id=799545

 

-And there is a third way, which is to draw the balloons directly in the art and letter the text in another board. Then it's merged in production. This is what I thought it happened with the splash of ASM #135. This method would save unnecessary work, but there's the risk that production people doesn't center the text correctly, or they reduce the text smaller or bigger, which wouldn't fit properly. This is what I think it happened in the smaller pages of ASM #131 and 136, which imho it looks slightly wrong.

 

I'm just guessing in this third category because I don't have any sample to proof this theory.

 

>Buff<, it's difficult to explain this kind of technical stuff when english is your third language...

[Ferran Delgado]

Take a look again at this page from #131. It looks like if the text layer was smaller than the general page. This makes the feeling that all the text is uncentered towards the center of the page.

 

Edited to add:

 

Notice also that in the first balloon of the second panel, the last word of the first line is broken.

 

Usually, letterers first drew the text and then drew the balloon around it. Why to break a word if you have no limits of room space? The answer could be that balloon was drawn first, and then Simek couldn't fit the text.