Copper's Heating/Selling Well on Ebay 33 33

[RockMyAmadeus]

Folks...a little perspective.

 

Cable was IMMENSELY popular when he first appeared on the scene. Within literally 6 months of his first appearance...and granted, New Mutants #87 didn't take the world by storm...he was the single hottest new character in comics.

 

By the time New Mutants #100 came out, #87 was a $65 book...that would be roughly equivalent to a new issue of Fantastic Four selling for $350 now.

 

Cable was huge, the clear leader of the new Marvel "triad" of Cable, Gambit, and Bishop.

 

Deadpool, a cultural icon...?

 

 

Shouldn't one have to be fairly popular for a generation or more to be a "cultural icon"...?

 

Deadpool was nothing, and "nobody" cared about him until about 2008. Up to that point, he was just another failed 90's intro, and there are hundreds of them.

 

Clearly, Deadpool has become a POP icon, and is the most popular character currently in comics...which is saying something...and I'm not saying that DP didn't pass Cable in popularity a while ago. He did.

 

But...Cable did what Deadpool never did, and there's quite a bit of nostalgia for the character that simply isn't present for DP. Does that mean Cable could become as popular?

 

Maybe. The Fox/Marvel thing is a great problem.

 

But we'll see.

 

I do have to agree with you that Cable was THE dominant X-figure at the time. Though I am also glad to see you finally came around and pointed out Cable and Liefeld's popularity happened rather quickly. As previously you noted nobody took notice of Cable's 1st appearance for at least a year or so.

 

No, Bosco. That is completely inaccurate, and you have misrepresented what I have said. I have never said anything along the lines that "nobody took notice of Cable's 1st appearance for at least a year or so." That's totally, completely, absolutely inaccurate.

 

I would recommend finding my actual statements, and not paraphrasing what you think I said, before continuing this discussion. I do not say that with rancor; I mean that sincerely.

 

Here's the pertinent statement: "Within literally 6 months of his first appearance...and granted, New Mutants #87 didn't take the world by storm...he was the single hottest new character in comics."

 

There are important words and phrases there. To wit: "New Mutants #87 didn't take the world by storm."

 

And: "he was the single hottest NEW character in comics."

 

(emphasis added.)

 

I use these words purposely, not loosely, and I mean what I say.

 

I understand why you would think people would change or modify their stances without acknowledging that change. However, I'm not one of those people. There is no inconsistency in my stance. Same as it's always been, where Liefeld/Cable is concerned.

 

Cable picked up steam rather quickly after the first few issues started getting attention over Liefeld. $25 for a New Mutants #87 after four-five months from its publication was the early sign this was going much higher soon enough. New Mutants #98 took years to even achieve a $25 pricetag.

 

You are incorrect.

 

New Mutants #87 was NOT "$25...after four-five months from (sic) its publication."

 

If you're going to nitpick, you must be absolutely precise.

[MrWeen]

So was NM 87 down by the time Cable 1 came out? I feel like it was still silly expensive, but that might have been a copy gathering dust on my LCS wall at that point?

 

Which Cable #1? The 1992 mini, or the 1993 regular? By the 1992 mini, it still had legs. But by the 1993 #1, it had lost most of its steam, and began the long, slow march into discount box status. But, like many of these books, it was never really a "dollar box" book (like you've said of New Mutants #98, though NM #98 was much, much more likely to be one.) You generally had to pay $5 or so for a copy on eBay throughout the 90's/00's.

 

Does anyone here know if there was an error printing for either issue 1 of the 1992 mini or the regular series from 1993?

 

 

 

[seanfingh]

So was NM 87 down by the time Cable 1 came out? I feel like it was still silly expensive, but that might have been a copy gathering dust on my LCS wall at that point?

 

Which Cable #1? The 1992 mini, or the 1993 regular? By the 1992 mini, it still had legs. But by the 1993 #1, it had lost most of its steam, and began the long, slow march into discount box status. But, like many of these books, it was never really a "dollar box" book (like you've said of New Mutants #98, though NM #98 was much, much more likely to be one.) You generally had to pay $5 or so for a copy on eBay throughout the 90's/00's.

 

Does anyone here know if there was an error printing for either issue 1 of the 1992 mini or the regular series from 1993?

 

 

 

I believe the gold embossed #1 issue ("Future Destiny") has an error that is similar to the Venom: Lethal Protector error - the Gold Embossing did not adhere or was not properly applied to the cover.

[Broke as a Joke]

Folks...a little perspective.

 

Cable was IMMENSELY popular when he first appeared on the scene. Within literally 6 months of his first appearance...and granted, New Mutants #87 didn't take the world by storm...he was the single hottest new character in comics.

 

By the time New Mutants #100 came out, #87 was a $65 book...that would be roughly equivalent to a new issue of Fantastic Four selling for $350 now.

 

Cable was huge, the clear leader of the new Marvel "triad" of Cable, Gambit, and Bishop.

 

Deadpool, a cultural icon...?

 

 

Shouldn't one have to be fairly popular for a generation or more to be a "cultural icon"...?

 

Deadpool was nothing, and "nobody" cared about him until about 2008. Up to that point, he was just another failed 90's intro, and there are hundreds of them.

 

Clearly, Deadpool has become a POP icon, and is the most popular character currently in comics...which is saying something...and I'm not saying that DP didn't pass Cable in popularity a while ago. He did.

 

But...Cable did what Deadpool never did, and there's quite a bit of nostalgia for the character that simply isn't present for DP. Does that mean Cable could become as popular?

 

Maybe. The Fox/Marvel thing is a great problem.

 

But we'll see.

 

I do have to agree with you that Cable was THE dominant X-figure at the time. Though I am also glad to see you finally came around and pointed out Cable and Liefeld's popularity happened rather quickly. As previously you noted nobody took notice of Cable's 1st appearance for at least a year or so.

 

No, Bosco. That is completely inaccurate, and you have misrepresented what I have said. I have never said anything along the lines that "nobody took notice of Cable's 1st appearance for at least a year or so." That's totally, completely, absolutely inaccurate.

 

I would recommend finding my actual statements, and not paraphrasing what you think I said, before continuing this discussion. I do not say that with rancor; I mean that sincerely.

 

Here's the pertinent statement: "Within literally 6 months of his first appearance...and granted, New Mutants #87 didn't take the world by storm...he was the single hottest new character in comics."

 

There are important words and phrases there. To wit: "New Mutants #87 didn't take the world by storm."

 

And: "he was the single hottest NEW character in comics."

 

(emphasis added.)

 

I use these words purposely, not loosely, and I mean what I say.

 

I understand why you would think people would change or modify their stances without acknowledging that change. However, I'm not one of those people. There is no inconsistency in my stance. Same as it's always been, where Liefeld/Cable is concerned.

 

Cable picked up steam rather quickly after the first few issues started getting attention over Liefeld. $25 for a New Mutants #87 after four-five months from its publication was the early sign this was going much higher soon enough. New Mutants #98 took years to even achieve a $25 pricetag.

 

You are incorrect.

 

New Mutants #87 was NOT "$25...after four-five months from (sic) its publication."

 

If you're going to nitpick, you must be absolutely precise.

 

Hmm, not sure what research is being done here to come up with some of these numbers, but in New Mutants 99 there is an East Coast Comics advertisement that clearly states New Mutants 87 as a book you can order from them in "Mint/NM" for $7. In fact, 86 is listed at $10. So I'm not sure if one month later when New Mutants 100 came out this book skyrocketed to $65. Seems absurd to me. And maybe the LCS near you had them priced at $65, but why would that sell when mail order places were shipping them out at $7 a pop?

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Hmm, not sure what research is being done here to come up with some of these numbers, but in New Mutants 99 there is an East Coast Comics advertisement that clearly states New Mutants 87 as a book you can order from them in "Mint/NM" for $7. In fact, 86 is listed at $10. So I'm not sure if one month later when New Mutants 100 came out this book skyrocketed to $65. Seems absurd to me. And maybe the LCS near you had them priced at $65, but why would that sell when mail order places were shipping them out at $7 a pop?

 

You mean the East Coast Comics ad that was placed at around the same time that New Mutants #96 was on the stands?

 

You do realize there's a significant lag time in between when an ad is placed with Marvel advertising, and when it actually shows up in the printed comic, right?

 

It seems absurd to you because you do not think these things through.

 

Had you tried to order a New Mutants #87 for that $7 price, how many did you think you were going to get?

 

Note: East Coast Comics was a LIMIT ONE PER CUSTOMER mail-order merchandiser. If East Coast Comics shipped out ONE copy of NM #87 at $7 by the time that ad saw print, I'd be very, very surprised. Who knows, maybe they did.

 

I know that, around the same time, I tried to order X-Men #266 from American Comics, for $3 each, and I received none.

 

But your point is a fair one, so I'll revise my statement from this:

 

"By the time New Mutants #100 came out, #87 was a $65 book"

 

...to this:

 

"By the time X-Force #1 came out, New Mutants #87 was a $65 book"

[Bosco685]

Actually your thoughts on the matter were twice changed concerning interest and demand for Cable's 1st appearance.

 

Reasonable price for NM 98?

 

If that's what MCS says about New Mutants #87, they are wrong.

 

The book was second printed around Feb-Mar of 1991, over a year after the first print came out, and just before X-Force #1.

 

There would have been no reason for Marvel to reprint NM #87 a month after the first print came out. It wasn't a sellout, and it took a while (about a year) for Cable to really light on fire (yes, I know people dispute this. They, too, are incorrect, and rely on cloudy memories NM #87 was NOT an instant hit.)

 

Why do people think New Mutants #98 had a "high print run"...?

 

I didn't say everyone ignored first appearances. I said they weren't BRAND NEW first appearance crazy, like they are now. Cable wasn't an out-of-the-gate hit, either. It was really X-Tinction Agenda, coming about 8-9 months after #87, that brought him to everyone's attention. X-Tinction Agenda was a monstrous hit, the crossover of the year, and put the mutants firmly back on track, after wandering in the desert for 2-3 years.

 

As I and others have said, Liefeld was the real popularity early on, and #86 was worth more than #87, at least for about 8-9 months or so.

 

Now as far as this goes...

 

You are incorrect.

 

New Mutants #87 was NOT "$25...after four-five months from (sic) its publication."

 

If you're going to nitpick, you must be absolutely precise.

 

There is what guide reflects. And then there is what local market were charging early on which leads to those guide prices over time. The market doesn't just jump up instantly one day, and then BAM - that's the price. And with Cable, he caught on fairly quickly after the first few appearances due to Liefeld's coverage of the title. And it was long before New Mutants #100 hit the market, as at that point the excitement of NM/Liefeld led to X-Force becoming a huge initial hit for Marvel.

 

You can debate these things extensively. The massive sales of X-Force #1 (and even larger print run) shows how crazy the frenzy was for Cable/Liefeld to the point of zaniness.

[Broke as a Joke]

 

Hmm, not sure what research is being done here to come up with some of these numbers, but in New Mutants 99 there is an East Coast Comics advertisement that clearly states New Mutants 87 as a book you can order from them in "Mint/NM" for $7. In fact, 86 is listed at $10. So I'm not sure if one month later when New Mutants 100 came out this book skyrocketed to $65. Seems absurd to me. And maybe the LCS near you had them priced at $65, but why would that sell when mail order places were shipping them out at $7 a pop?

 

You mean the East Coast Comics ad that was placed at around the same time that New Mutants #96 was on the stands?

 

You do realize there's a significant lag time in between when an ad is placed with Marvel advertising, and when it actually shows up in the printed comic, right?

 

It seems absurd to you because you do not think these things through.

 

Had you tried to order a New Mutants #87 for that $7 price, how many did you think you were going to get?

 

Note: East Coast Comics was a LIMIT ONE PER CUSTOMER mail-order merchandiser. If East Coast Comics shipped out ONE copy of NM #87 at $7 by the time that ad saw print, I'd be very, very surprised. Who knows, maybe they did.

 

I know that, around the same time, I tried to order X-Men #266 from American Comics, for $3 each, and I received none.

 

But your point is a fair one, so I'll revise my statement from this:

 

"By the time New Mutants #100 came out, #87 was a $65 book"

 

...to this:

 

"By the time X-Force #1 came out, New Mutants #87 was a $65 book"

 

No, I mean the ECC ad that was placed in New Mutants 99. Thus having issue 96 and 97 available for sale as back issues. The ad in New Mutants 96 wouldn't have those issues available. Thus a different ad.

 

Also other book prices in the NM 99 ad for those interested:

 

Uncanny X-men 266 -- .60 cents

ASM 300 -- $40

[RockMyAmadeus]

Actually your thoughts on the matter were twice changed concerning interest and demand for Cable's 1st appearance.

 

Reasonable price for NM 98?

 

If that's what MCS says about New Mutants #87, they are wrong.

 

The book was second printed around Feb-Mar of 1991, over a year after the first print came out, and just before X-Force #1.

 

There would have been no reason for Marvel to reprint NM #87 a month after the first print came out. It wasn't a sellout, and it took a while (about a year) for Cable to really light on fire (yes, I know people dispute this. They, too, are incorrect, and rely on cloudy memories NM #87 was NOT an instant hit.)

 

Oh for Pete's sake, Bosco.

 

 

You tell me what "really light on fire" means.

 

What does that mean?

 

Does it mean "enough to inspire Marvel to second print the book"?

 

Does it mean "it was the hottest back issue on the market"?

 

Does it mean "everybody and their mother wanted it"?

 

No...it means what it means: a vague estimate, because precision about matters of "when did such and such a book/character get hot" is not, and never has been, possible.

 

It does NOT mean, as you are trying to make it mean, that there was absolutely zero interest in the book, that nobody cared about it, or, in your words "As previously you noted nobody took notice of Cable's 1st appearance for at least a year or so."

 

Let me say that again, so the point is not lost:

 

"It wasn't a sellout, and it took a while (about a year) for Cable to really light on fire."

 

Does NOT mean the same thing as "nobody took notice of Cable's 1st appearance for at least a year or so"

 

Those are two completely different statements.

 

Why do people think New Mutants #98 had a "high print run"...?

 

I didn't say everyone ignored first appearances. I said they weren't BRAND NEW first appearance crazy, like they are now. Cable wasn't an out-of-the-gate hit, either. It was really X-Tinction Agenda, coming about 8-9 months after #87, that brought him to everyone's attention. X-Tinction Agenda was a monstrous hit, the crossover of the year, and put the mutants firmly back on track, after wandering in the desert for 2-3 years.

 

As I and others have said, Liefeld was the real popularity early on, and #86 was worth more than #87, at least for about 8-9 months or so.

 

One more time, because you're trying yet again to create controversy where there is none:

 

Cable was NOT an INSTANT hit. Let me very clearly define for you what that means: it means New Mutants #87 was NOT a sellout, like Batman #428, or Amazing Spiderman #252, or Thor #337, or Superman #75.

 

It means that IT TOOK TIME.

 

How MUCH time, down to the last day, hour, minute, second?

 

I...DON'T...KNOW. And neither do you, and neither does anyone else.

 

Why?

 

Because it is IMPOSSIBLE to chart these things with perfect precision, ESPECIALLY in the pre-internet era.

 

8 months...a year...what is the difference, when talking about how something "got hot"? The answer is NOT MUCH.

 

As I said, and have been COMPLETELY CONSISTENT ON, New Mutants #87 was NOT an instant hit. It TOOK TIME for the book and Cable to become what it eventually became.

 

Pay very close attention to the words I am about to type:

 

1. Within 6 months of New Mutants #87, Cable was the hottest NEW...that is NEW....that is, NOT OLD...character on the market. There was BUZZ. But that doesn't mean that Cable and NM #87 was the hottest thing on the market overall. In fact, in that time period, the hottest thing was McFarlane's Spiderman #1, which was the talk of the entire industry.

 

2. It took about a year for New Mutants #87 (that is, around the time of the publication of #100) to really LIGHT ON FIRE. What does THAT mean? It means, over the course of 1990, Cable and NM #87 heated up. More and more people became interested, and by the time New Mutants #100 came out, it started getting more and more mention in INDUSTRY PUBLICATIONS (that is, the Overstreet Update, etc.) and people began to search it out in earnest.

 

3. Cable was IMMENSELY popular from ESSENTIALLY the beginning of his career. That doesn't mean that he was IMMENSELY popular from Day 1. He was not. But, you MUST consider the context of the comment: Cable vs. Deadpool. And when considering that context, yes, Cable was, from the beginning (but not Day1) immensely popular, whereas Deadpool was met with a big yawn for almost two decades.

 

These statements ARE NOT contradictory. But they ARE ESTIMATES, because it simply isn't possible to say, with certainty, how "hot" any particular character/book is at any given time.

 

It is ridiculous to try and say "well, on June 23rd, 1990, nobody cared about Cable, but on June 24th, 1990, the book was the hottest thing since sliced bread!"

 

And yet, that is what you're trying to do. You're trying to NAIL DOWN JELLO.

 

IT ISN'T POSSIBLE. I have told you this for years, and I will tell you this AGAIN.

 

IT ISN'T POSSIBLE.

 

All of these things, OF NECESSITY, are ESTIMATES.

 

One more time: All of these things, OF NECESSITY, are ESTIMATES.

 

Therefore, to say "well, one time, you said this, and then another time, you TOTALLY changed your mind, and said THAT" is intellectually dishonest.

 

There IS NO CONCRETE ANSWER. There are only ESTIMATES, but those ESTIMATES are GOOD ones, and have been consistent.

 

Now.

 

Are we done with being silly?

 

[divad]

Apparently not.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Hmm, not sure what research is being done here to come up with some of these numbers, but in New Mutants 99 there is an East Coast Comics advertisement that clearly states New Mutants 87 as a book you can order from them in "Mint/NM" for $7. In fact, 86 is listed at $10. So I'm not sure if one month later when New Mutants 100 came out this book skyrocketed to $65. Seems absurd to me. And maybe the LCS near you had them priced at $65, but why would that sell when mail order places were shipping them out at $7 a pop?

 

You mean the East Coast Comics ad that was placed at around the same time that New Mutants #96 was on the stands?

 

You do realize there's a significant lag time in between when an ad is placed with Marvel advertising, and when it actually shows up in the printed comic, right?

 

It seems absurd to you because you do not think these things through.

 

Had you tried to order a New Mutants #87 for that $7 price, how many did you think you were going to get?

 

Note: East Coast Comics was a LIMIT ONE PER CUSTOMER mail-order merchandiser. If East Coast Comics shipped out ONE copy of NM #87 at $7 by the time that ad saw print, I'd be very, very surprised. Who knows, maybe they did.

 

I know that, around the same time, I tried to order X-Men #266 from American Comics, for $3 each, and I received none.

 

But your point is a fair one, so I'll revise my statement from this:

 

"By the time New Mutants #100 came out, #87 was a $65 book"

 

...to this:

 

"By the time X-Force #1 came out, New Mutants #87 was a $65 book"

 

No, I mean the ECC ad that was placed in New Mutants 99. Thus having issue 96 and 97 available for sale as back issues. The ad in New Mutants 96 wouldn't have those issues available. Thus a different ad.

 

Read what I wrote again. You're response indicates you either didn't read it, or didn't understand it.

 

Somewhere, that ad is discussed at length, and posted. Maybe in this very thread.

 

[Broke as a Joke]

 

Hmm, not sure what research is being done here to come up with some of these numbers, but in New Mutants 99 there is an East Coast Comics advertisement that clearly states New Mutants 87 as a book you can order from them in "Mint/NM" for $7. In fact, 86 is listed at $10. So I'm not sure if one month later when New Mutants 100 came out this book skyrocketed to $65. Seems absurd to me. And maybe the LCS near you had them priced at $65, but why would that sell when mail order places were shipping them out at $7 a pop?

 

You mean the East Coast Comics ad that was placed at around the same time that New Mutants #96 was on the stands?

 

You do realize there's a significant lag time in between when an ad is placed with Marvel advertising, and when it actually shows up in the printed comic, right?

 

It seems absurd to you because you do not think these things through.

 

Had you tried to order a New Mutants #87 for that $7 price, how many did you think you were going to get?

 

Note: East Coast Comics was a LIMIT ONE PER CUSTOMER mail-order merchandiser. If East Coast Comics shipped out ONE copy of NM #87 at $7 by the time that ad saw print, I'd be very, very surprised. Who knows, maybe they did.

 

I know that, around the same time, I tried to order X-Men #266 from American Comics, for $3 each, and I received none.

 

But your point is a fair one, so I'll revise my statement from this:

 

"By the time New Mutants #100 came out, #87 was a $65 book"

 

...to this:

 

"By the time X-Force #1 came out, New Mutants #87 was a $65 book"

 

No, I mean the ECC ad that was placed in New Mutants 99. Thus having issue 96 and 97 available for sale as back issues. The ad in New Mutants 96 wouldn't have those issues available. Thus a different ad.

 

Read what I wrote again. You're response indicates you either didn't read it, or didn't understand it.

 

Somewhere, that ad is discussed at length, and posted. Maybe in this very thread.

 

Your response indicates... fixed that for you.

[MrWeen]

It seems to me that Cable represents the start of poorly written, poorly drawn Marvel comics. That's not to say that everything prior to NM 87 was quality material but from that issue on the quality declined significantly and the money grab via foil, bagged and other gimmicks soon began. As popular as Cable was, interest in him probably suffered within a few years after that early debut spike y'all are arguing about. Sales may have been at an all time high for Marvel but that was not due to a top notch product. I think Deadpool proves that a character needs more than a snazzy costume to achieve the kind of popularity he has. Has Cable ever had that kind of sustained writing. No. Does he have a killer costume. Nope. Can anyone name a single story beyond the cool origin that really stands out? I have read every Marvel comic from that era and I would say no. Even the Cable and Deadpool stuff is mostly forgettable. I hope the film does him right though. The concept of Cable is cool and seeing as the films never follow the comics and instead often pull the best concepts from the comics, there is hope for Cable. I hope they call it Cable & Deadpool er..Deadpool and Cable. No matter what they do will any of these things make Cable as big as Deadpool. I doubt it.

[Aweandlorder]

It seems to me that Cable represents the start of poorly written, poorly drawn Marvel comics. That's not to say that everything prior to NM 87 was quality material but from that issue on the quality declined significantly and the money grab via foil, bagged and other gimmicks soon began. As popular as Cable was, interest in him probably suffered within a few years after that early debut spike y'all are arguing about. Sales may have been at an all time high for Marvel but that was not due to a top notch product. I think Deadpool proves that a character needs more than a snazzy costume to achieve the kind of popularity he has. Has Cable ever had that kind of sustained writing. No. Does he have a killer costume. Nope. Can anyone name a single story beyond the cool origin that really stands out? I have read every Marvel comic from that era and I would say no. Even the Cable and Deadpool stuff is mostly forgettable. I hope the film does him right though. The concept of Cable is cool and seeing as the films never follow the comics and instead often pull the best concepts from the comics, there is hope for Cable. I hope they call it Cable & Deadpool er..Deadpool and Cable. No matter what they do will any of these things make Cable as big as Deadpool. I doubt it.

 

Its all Arthur Adams fault

 

[Bosco685]

Are we done with being silly?

 

Being silly? Because someone pointed out your view on Cable taking off in the hobby changed three times. Seems like you went excessive to over-emphasize how nobody better question your changing view on things.

 

If anything, it proved nothing. The market price happens over time through many sales and an average of all those sales to determine a price. That means for a price to finally start showing up in a guide as the going rate, it took some sales to achieve that number.

 

Now, back to whatever silliness you want to textplode over.

[Bosco685]

Apparently not.

 

You cut that out, trouble.

 

[the blob]

OK, horse beaten. Now Dead. I feel partially responsible. I am sorry.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Now as far as this goes...

 

You are incorrect.

 

New Mutants #87 was NOT "$25...after four-five months from (sic) its publication."

 

If you're going to nitpick, you must be absolutely precise.

 

There is what guide reflects.

 

Really?

 

Which one?

 

Four-five months after New Mutants #87 would be New Mutants #90-91.

 

Right?

 

Or is my math incorrect?

 

New Mutants #90 has a cover date of June of 1990, and was published on April 10, 1990.

 

#91 has a July cover date, and published May 8, 1990.

 

So, you're saying that "in the guide", it was $25 4-5 months after it came out?

 

The answer to that, of course, is "no."

 

The Update #14, which was compiled in September of 1990....well after "4-5 months"....has New Mutants #87 at $4, and #86 listed as a "McFarlane cover" (which, since he inked it, isn't totally inaccurate.)

 

Update #15, compiled in November, has New Mutants #87 at $5.

 

I can do a more thorough read, but doing a quick perusal, there's not a single mention of NM #87 in the market reports. Liefeld, yes. New Mutants, yes. Cable...one mention. Otherwise, zilch. Lots and lots about Spiderman.

 

And then there is what local market were charging early on which leads to those guide prices over time. The market doesn't just jump up instantly one day, and then BAM - that's the price.

 

Of course not, and no one suggested otherwise.

 

I'm sure crazy boutique stores in San Fran, LA, and NY would be asking $25 for this book at this point...Comix and Comics in Berkeley did that all the time...but the book wasn't around, for the most part, to BE bought. I hunted for these books like crazy, and only found those five copies at the time that #93-#94 came out...and that was it.

 

And with Cable, he caught on fairly quickly after the first few appearances due to Liefeld's coverage of the title.

 

Again, as pointed out above, that's not true.

 

And it was long before New Mutants #100 hit the market, as at that point the excitement of NM/Liefeld led to X-Force becoming a huge initial hit for Marvel.

 

Again, not true. The November market report was written when #97 was on the stands.

 

You can debate these things extensively. The massive sales of X-Force #1 (and even larger print run) shows how crazy the frenzy was for Cable/Liefeld to the point of zaniness.

 

YES. By THAT time, it WAS madness.

 

If we want to nail down anything, the real gas on the fire was New Mutants #100. That book changed it all, and sent everyone into a frenzy BECAUSE of the revelation at the end, and the promise of X-Force.

 

That, more than any other event, turned the dial on Cable from, say, 4-6, to 11.

 

That was the moment, right there, and the wait for X-Force #1 just sent the market into a tizzy.

 

But New Mutants #100 came out a full 13 months after #87, and X-force #1 was a year and a half.

 

It took time.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Hmm, not sure what research is being done here to come up with some of these numbers, but in New Mutants 99 there is an East Coast Comics advertisement that clearly states New Mutants 87 as a book you can order from them in "Mint/NM" for $7. In fact, 86 is listed at $10. So I'm not sure if one month later when New Mutants 100 came out this book skyrocketed to $65. Seems absurd to me. And maybe the LCS near you had them priced at $65, but why would that sell when mail order places were shipping them out at $7 a pop?

 

You mean the East Coast Comics ad that was placed at around the same time that New Mutants #96 was on the stands?

 

You do realize there's a significant lag time in between when an ad is placed with Marvel advertising, and when it actually shows up in the printed comic, right?

 

It seems absurd to you because you do not think these things through.

 

Had you tried to order a New Mutants #87 for that $7 price, how many did you think you were going to get?

 

Note: East Coast Comics was a LIMIT ONE PER CUSTOMER mail-order merchandiser. If East Coast Comics shipped out ONE copy of NM #87 at $7 by the time that ad saw print, I'd be very, very surprised. Who knows, maybe they did.

 

I know that, around the same time, I tried to order X-Men #266 from American Comics, for $3 each, and I received none.

 

But your point is a fair one, so I'll revise my statement from this:

 

"By the time New Mutants #100 came out, #87 was a $65 book"

 

...to this:

 

"By the time X-Force #1 came out, New Mutants #87 was a $65 book"

 

No, I mean the ECC ad that was placed in New Mutants 99. Thus having issue 96 and 97 available for sale as back issues. The ad in New Mutants 96 wouldn't have those issues available. Thus a different ad.

 

Read what I wrote again. You're response indicates you either didn't read it, or didn't understand it.

 

Somewhere, that ad is discussed at length, and posted. Maybe in this very thread.

 

Your response indicates... fixed that for you.

 

Yes, thank you, my mistake.

 

Now, how about the issue?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Are we done with being silly?

 

Being silly? Because someone pointed out your view on Cable taking off in the hobby changed three times. Seems like you went excessive to over-emphasize how nobody better question your changing view on things.

 

No, Bosco. As usual, as you have done countless times in the past, you're trying to incite a fight.

 

Not going to happen.

 

My "view" on "Cable taking off" did not change, it did not evolve.

 

They are estimates, and estimates, by their very nature, are not precise.

 

You're trying to play "gotcha!", and it's disingenuous.

 

Now, are we done being silly?

[seanfingh]

 

#86 was hotter than 87 for several months. Because that was the first RL art on NM. Believe it or not, in those days (and I know all you old guys know this) an artist's first work on a series rivaled or even exceeded first appearances of major characters.

 

And as I have posted many times, when I sold a copy of Hulk 181 in late April / early May of 1990, I got the dealer to throw in 10 copies of Guardians of the Galaxy #1 (which was brand new that week) and the rest of his stock of NM 87s (it was somewhere between 5 and 10 of those). I am pretty sure that either 89 or 90 was on the stands at that point. I got between $25 and $50 a piece for the 87s when I was doing shows in '91 and '92. And I felt like I got over, big time, until this latest price explosion.

 

Please enjoy this anecdotal, non-empirical, evidence.