First 3 Watchmen covers in Feb HA

[Nexus]

Couldn't one also argue that WM and books like it have more cachet now than at any point in history? 20 years ago they were still modern books. Today books like that are more considered 'modern classics' or just 'classics,' a lot of them have had the film treatment, still in print, etc. 20 years ago somebody calling WM the most influential book of the last 50 years would have been laughed at by everyone. Today its less of a controversial statement (even if, IMO still incorrect).

 

Yes. I tried to make the same point earlier: WM's stature has grown through the years, and the values have gone up correspondingly. That does not mean, to me, that the OA was ever undervalued. It's always been relatively pricey. It hasn't always been the MOST expensive OA, nor has it appreciated at the highest rate, but again, that doesn't mean it's been undervalued.

[Nexus]

The other thing that has to be considered in all this is its not just the WM market that's gone up relative to other things.

 

There has been a systemic repricing of all trophy pieces in all hobbies due to the internet making them easier to find and easier to brag about.

 

So HG books, nice pieces of OA, top examples of all collectibles really, have been through the roof the last 10 years and that's not a WM or even OA related phenomena

 

Yup, agree with this as well. For better or for worse.

[comicsnyc22]

I'm not even a die hard Watchmen fan, but name another comic as highly regarded and mainstream? It created an entire sub-genre and made graphic novels a thing. Time put it on the same list as Grapes of Wrath. The comics are iconic in a different way that spider-man, FF and others were. Not sure how anyone can argue that?

 

And where would that put "The Grapes of Wrath" original cover art then? $2 million?

 

Most comic book people only see things from a comic book world perspective. Just because WM made some Time magazine list doesn't mean WM is really that important in the grand scheme of things or make the #1 cover a half million dollar item. If someone buys into this kind of hype/nonsense and pays a half million dollars for it, then they and the cover belong together. Good luck to them.

 

Most comic people see things from a comic book world perspective? What does that mean? Look, I'm not saying it's going to be a record breaking sale. I'm just saying that as "comic book people," I think we can all agree that this was a seminal book which went beyond "comic book people" and into our pop culture. I don't think it's as far fetched as you think it is that this book was one of the most important in a half century. The Time Magazine article served as a proof point to its reach. I hope it ends up in a museum some day.

[tth2]

What makes anything in our hobby worth something? What makes ASM #328 worth $657K? What makes an ACTION #1 8.5 worth $500K more than an ACTION #1 8.0? We're way past any real world justifications for "worth" now. This cover, like every other lot, especially the high-profile lots, will sell for whatever someone decides to pay. Which is also why I won't even bother guessing what it will sell for-- if anyone comes close, it just means they got lucky. May as well throw a dart, the way the market has been the last couple of years.

 

Felix, price is what you pay, but value is what you get. I know you're probably just playing devil's advocate, but arguments like "prices have now disconnected so far beyond any real world justifications, so anything can be justified based on a buyer's willingness to pay" is classic bubble talk in my book. Respectfully, I don't think there is enough merit in the ASM #328 cover to sustain a $657K price over time (adjusted for inflation). I think Watchmen marks an important milestone in comics history and has made a minor impact in greater Western literature. But, so what? Why does that make the #1 cover a half-million dollar item as some claim? I'd much rather have the Charlotte's Web cover, which sold for a third of that price 2 years ago and has been for sale more recently at less than half of what some say the WM #1 is worth. That book has been read by more people and influenced more people (granted, children) than "Watchmen". How much would the cover to The Grapes of Wrath go for? Not $500K I wager. Why would the cover art to any great literature be considered so desirable? The simple answer is: it's not. In the real world, people don't care about "cover art" - that is purely the OA collector perspective talking. "Atlas Shrugged" is many peoples' favorite all-time book. Do you think, for most of those people, that obtaining the original cover art by George Salter would represent the ultimate expression of fandom? Please, please - anyone who does is in serious need of getting some outside perspective on things.

I know you're just being your normal curmudgeonly self, but you're totally mixing apples and oranges.

 

"Grapes of Wrath", "Charlotte's Web", "Atlas Shrugged", etc., are pure "literary literature". They stand on the written word alone. The artwork, to the extent there is any, is irrelevant and the cover is superfluous. The artwork and cover for "Charlotte's Web" is only semi-important because it happens to be a children's book, the artwork happens to be pretty good, and the publisher decided to keep using the same cover edition after edition.

 

"Watchmen" is a comic book (or those who feel ashamed of comic books might call it a graphic novel), meaning that the art is a critical component, even if the writing by Moore is what elevates it over most other comic book work. So of course the artwork and the cover are disproportionately more important and more valuable than the artwork and/or cover of most literary literature.

[Aman619]

I loved the Watchman comics, and would have loved to have owned these covers, back when they were expensive at a few thou apiece. But now? Put me in the Deli camp. I don't see them as a good place to park 200K.

 

Sure, OA is hot, and may continue. It sure is attracting buyers at huge prices. But... One of Genesbest arguments is that comics art has ALREADY become ore costly than many fine artists works.

 

Then again, perhaps we a entering, year by year, a new reality where popular cultures artifacts a what gets people hot to it, and no longer what our parents etc valued most. We see it in the movies and toys, and TV. Comics culture is all over the place, supplanting many genres that used to be more popular.

 

[delekkerste]

I know you're just being your normal curmudgeonly self, but you're totally mixing apples and oranges.

 

"Grapes of Wrath", "Charlotte's Web", "Atlas Shrugged", etc., are pure "literary literature". They stand on the written word alone. The artwork, to the extent there is any, is irrelevant and the cover is superfluous. The artwork and cover for "Charlotte's Web" is only semi-important because it happens to be a children's book, the artwork happens to be pretty good, and the publisher decided to keep using the same cover edition after edition.

 

"Watchmen" is a comic book (or those who feel ashamed of comic books might call it a graphic novel), meaning that the art is a critical component, even if the writing by Moore is what elevates it over most other comic book work. So of course the artwork and the cover are disproportionately more important and more valuable than the artwork and/or cover of most literary literature.

 

I'm not sure that the difference is as stark as you and Hari make it out to be. Remember, we are only comparing covers to covers and, whether in the case of comics or novels, both were artwork designed to complement and ultimately sell more copies of the book inside. In any case, I wouldn't have made the comparison had WM not been both implicitly and explictly compared to other great works of fiction as a justification for why these covers should fetch krazy prices. Not to mention that all of this appreciation and acclaim for WM has been around for years; in fact, it probably peaked around the time the movie came out a few years ago, at which point the covers were priced at a fraction of what they are now.

 

My personal view is that if someone should buy these WM covers because they are big fans of the series, not because they think the work somehow transcends the genre as one of the greatest works of Western culture and is worthy of being displayed in the living room next to the Picasso.

[suspense39]

I loved the Watchman comics, and would have loved to have owned these covers, back when they were expensive at a few thou apiece. But now? Put me in the Deli camp. I don't see them as a good place to park 200K.

 

Sure, OA is hot, and may continue. It sure is attracting buyers at huge prices. But... One of Genesbest arguments is that comics art has ALREADY become ore costly than many fine artists works.

 

Then again, perhaps we a entering, year by year, a new reality where popular cultures artifacts a what gets people hot to it, and no longer what our parents etc valued most. We see it in the movies and toys, and TV. Comics culture is all over the place, supplanting many genres that used to be more popular.

 

 

If comparing works on paper, from what I've seen lately OCA is more expensive...I've seen de Kooning on paper go for way less than the prices we are tailing about now.

[comicsnyc22]

In literary circles, the writing makes the story. There aren't famous novel book cover artists. Are there Jim Lee's in the literary art cover world? It's apples to oranges.

 

The WM covers are great. They're not Picasso's, but I hope they do well.

[Bronty]

I loved the Watchman comics, and would have loved to have owned these covers, back when they were expensive at a few thou apiece. But now? Put me in the Deli camp. I don't see them as a good place to park 200K.

 

Sure, OA is hot, and may continue. It sure is attracting buyers at huge prices. But... One of Genesbest arguments is that comics art has ALREADY become ore costly than many fine artists works.

 

Then again, perhaps we a entering, year by year, a new reality where popular cultures artifacts a what gets people hot to it, and no longer what our parents etc valued most. We see it in the movies and toys, and TV. Comics culture is all over the place, supplanting many genres that used to be more popular.

 

 

If comparing works on paper, from what I've seen lately OCA is more expensive...I've seen de Kooning on paper go for way less than the prices we are tailing about now.

 

 

I've heard that comparison made before but so far the top of the oca market is six figures and the top of the fine art market is nine figures so I dont think its apples to apples... one could just as easily point to de koonigs that are eight figures in the same way one can point to either 4 figure (infinity inc etc) or six figure (mcspidey..) Todd prices.

 

Besides I think the illustration market, while still having signficant differences, is a better comparable than the pure fine art market.

 

I think the cover to AF15 would be worth as much as a pretty decent Rockwell and I don't think that's unreasonable.

[NelsonAI]

I was never a fan of the artwork from Watchmen. Clearly it was all about the story as no one seems to be clamoring for any of Dave Gibbons' non WM art.

 

Even as story lines go, IMHO, it seems outdated and does not hold up over time.

 

Good luck to the seller nonetheless.

 

Cheers!

N.

 

[comix4fun]

I was never a fan of the artwork from Watchmen. Clearly it was all about the story as no one seems to be clamoring for any of Dave Gibbons' non WM art.

 

 

 

Have you tried to buy a page from Superman Annual 11 lately?

[delekkerste]

I was never a fan of the artwork from Watchmen. Clearly it was all about the story as no one seems to be clamoring for any of Dave Gibbons' non WM art.

 

 

 

Have you tried to buy a page from Superman Annual 11 lately?

 

How about no one seems to be clamoring for any of Dave Gibbons' non-Alan Moore art.

[Nexus]

I was never a fan of the artwork from Watchmen. Clearly it was all about the story as no one seems to be clamoring for any of Dave Gibbons' non WM art.

 

 

 

Have you tried to buy a page from Superman Annual 11 lately?

 

How about no one seems to be clamoring for any of Dave Gibbons' non-Alan Moore art.

 

That's true for most (if not all) of Moore's artist collaborators. Some OA is collected purely for the art, but most OA is collected on the strength of the project or property. No one's clamoring for any of Tony Moore's non-WALKING DEAD art, or Charlie Adlard's non-WALKING DEAD art, or David Mazzucchelli's non-Miller art, or (relatively speaking) Steve Ditko's non-ASM/Strange art, Dave Cockrum's non-X-MEN art...these are off the top of my head, but I'm sure we can come up with a long list if we tried.

 

[Speedy-D]

Brian Bolland does pretty well on his own.

[Nexus]

Brian Bolland does pretty well on his own.

 

Right, agreed. As I said, some OA is collected purely for the art. Then again, while no Bolland art is cheap, KILLING JOKE has the highest value. Another Moore story.

[Speedy-D]

Brian Bolland does pretty well on his own.

 

Right, agreed. As I said, some OA is collected purely for the art. Then again, while no Bolland art is cheap, KILLING JOKE has the highest value. Another Moore story.

Too true!

[Brian Peck]

no one seems to be clamoring for any of Dave Gibbons' non-Alan Moore art.

 

I want his Doctor Who artwork!!!!

[Terry Doyle]

I was never a fan of the artwork from Watchmen. Clearly it was all about the story as no one seems to be clamoring for any of Dave Gibbons' non WM art.

 

 

 

Have you tried to buy a page from Superman Annual 11 lately?

 

How about no one seems to be clamoring for any of Dave Gibbons' non-Alan Moore art.

 

That's true for most (if not all) of Moore's artist collaborators. Some OA is collected purely for the art, but most OA is collected on the strength of the project or property. No one's clamoring for any of Tony Moore's non-WALKING DEAD art, or Charlie Adlard's non-WALKING DEAD art, or David Mazzucchelli's non-Miller art, or (relatively speaking) Steve Ditko's non-ASM/Strange art, Dave Cockrum's non-X-MEN art...these are off the top of my head, but I'm sure we can come up with a long list if we tried.

 

I would LOVE to own any Ditko Blue Beetle artwork or Creeper covers. In fact most pre-1970s Ditko art is of great interest to me - regardless of the publisher . . .

[Brian Peck]

Ya a Ditko Creeper page would be sweet or Futurians Cockrum page

[comix4fun]

no one seems to be clamoring for any of Dave Gibbons' non-Alan Moore art.

 

I want his Doctor Who artwork!!!!

 

 

His Doctor Who pages are phenomenal. I got to see a couple pages up close in Baltimore last year. I should have snagged them.