East of West 1 1

[WebSlinger]

I remember the whole "Market Crash" thread that was on these boards back in 2003, A lot of people on these boards now that were heavily involved thinking the rug was really going to be pulled out from under everyone. I never thought for one second that would ever happen, and knew that paying 40K for a 9.0 Hulk #1 was peanuts as to what was going to come around down the line which is where we are now, The back issue market hasn't collapse, it's just gotten more expensive and will continue to do so. People would say "Oh 10 copies of Fantastic Four #1 in 9.2+, that's way too many, I'm not paying that price" Seriously? 10 copies is of a rare 9.2+ of something is too many? Well by the record setting prices being paid now still doesn't show any sign of there being too many copies to go around.

 

Modern books where 99.9% of the run is in 9.2 or better shape and taken well care of since they were printed, cannot be compared to Hulk #1 and Fantastic Four #1, who's value has been established over nearly 60 years and is based on it's proven desirability, and not a hypothetical future success or relevance.

 

As for what price is too much. In the same way that WD lifts all other moderns below it when it tracks a new high, and proves "what's possible". The golden age rarities do the same and open up space for people to pay more on the silvers. Same way things like the mcfarlane art sale "let" people start justify paying much more for OA, even pieces of questionable future relevance.

 

Dips in a market, or corrections to a bubble, are buying opportunities for well positioned people. Not just in comics, but all markets. It shakes out weak hands, breaks people playing on margin (debt), and sets strong floors for values. aka, even during the correction item X never went below price Y.

 

There are lots of bubbles in the comics world (OA, Slabbed books, Moderns, comics with TV rumors, copper/bronze keys, maybe even silver minor keys), if and when some of them finally "correct", it only does so to improve the overall strength of the market as a whole.

 

If someone want to pay all time highs for a book, just make sure the numismatic value of it is truly there, and you wont lose out. Action 1s arent going to go on sale, even if the bottom of the entire comic market fell out. If you are willing to set a record price for something, just know where it stands in the pecking order.

 

Good post.....if a market adjustment happens again, and I am sure it will.....just make sure your ready because a lot of your current stuff will end up worthless.....pay close attention and invest only where you think the book had legs to hold up. People buying 100 copies of every #1 out there will ge she'll shocked when this happens....just my

 

 

So if I understand you, I should buy 200 copies of every image #1?

 

 

Noted......I will pm you when I'm doing my book drive for the needy

[WebSlinger]

I remember the whole "Market Crash" thread that was on these boards back in 2003, A lot of people on these boards now that were heavily involved thinking the rug was really going to be pulled out from under everyone. I never thought for one second that would ever happen, and knew that paying 40K for a 9.0 Hulk #1 was peanuts as to what was going to come around down the line which is where we are now, The back issue market hasn't collapse, it's just gotten more expensive and will continue to do so. People would say "Oh 10 copies of Fantastic Four #1 in 9.2+, that's way too many, I'm not paying that price" Seriously? 10 copies is of a rare 9.2+ of something is too many? Well by the record setting prices being paid now still doesn't show any sign of there being too many copies to go around.

 

Modern books where 99.9% of the run is in 9.2 or better shape and taken well care of since they were printed, cannot be compared to Hulk #1 and Fantastic Four #1, who's value has been established over nearly 60 years and is based on it's proven desirability, and not a hypothetical future success or relevance.

 

As for what price is too much. In the same way that WD lifts all other moderns below it when it tracks a new high, and proves "what's possible". The golden age rarities do the same and open up space for people to pay more on the silvers. Same way things like the mcfarlane art sale "let" people start justify paying much more for OA, even pieces of questionable future relevance.

 

Dips in a market, or corrections to a bubble, are buying opportunities for well positioned people. Not just in comics, but all markets. It shakes out weak hands, breaks people playing on margin (debt), and sets strong floors for values. aka, even during the correction item X never went below price Y.

 

There are lots of bubbles in the comics world (OA, Slabbed books, Moderns, comics with TV rumors, copper/bronze keys, maybe even silver minor keys), if and when some of them finally "correct", it only does so to improve the overall strength of the market as a whole.

 

If someone want to pay all time highs for a book, just make sure the numismatic value of it is truly there, and you wont lose out. Action 1s arent going to go on sale, even if the bottom of the entire comic market fell out. If you are willing to set a record price for something, just know where it stands in the pecking order.

 

Good post.....if a market adjustment happens again, and I am sure it will.....just make sure your ready because a lot of your current stuff will end up worthless.....pay close attention and invest only where you think the book had legs to hold up. People buying 100 copies of every #1 out there will ge she'll shocked when this happens....just my

 

I personally tend to stay away from moderns as far as "a book with legs" I only buy them simply because I love the book itself, usually because I love the cover. I remember when people were paying $25-30K for 9.8 Hulk 181's but of course as more and more copies got the 9.8 grade, the price dipped, now one can be had for around 10K

 

I'd certianly would not want to be that guy who paid 150K for the only 9.9 copy that was on comiclink a few years ago. Or even one of the guys who paid the 25K for a 9.8, or the 9.9 NM 98 for 12K. In the comic world however, condition is King! Would I pay 5K for a ASM 300 9.9? Nope. Why? I don't see much of a future for the character Venom, also the print run is too large. Very nice book but i'd settle for a 9.8 and just be happy with that.

 

WD #1 is the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles #1...Laugh all you want, but it's true.

 

Getting back to East of West, I bought 12 copies and I'll just slab and flip them. Only reason why people bough 5-10+ copies of it anyway!

 

I'm with ya, if I preorder a bunch, when it arrives and if I didn't like it, off to ebay they go......you have a small window of time, like 1-2 weeks to sell them off before it goes cold and your stuck with them for the long haul.........and in my opinion, if something is current and selling for more then a WD#1.......you need to step away and take a deep breath............but hey, I'm only wrong half the time....

[ItsJustRyan]

"Hey, I'm only wrong half the time."

 

You stole my line

[krighton]

Death by Wall of Text

[Mike's Rack]

CBT's not preaching doom and gloom, he's just discussing the boom and bust cycle that happens in all markets. Bubbles are generally good things and make for a healthy market in the long term. Bubbles are good because more money flows into the hobby. People that fund their hobby by selling the items in the bubble, generally put this money into bigger and better books and the entire hobby benefits. The problems comes with the panic afterward when people who thought they couldn't loose become risk adverse and the market becomes anemic. Be aware that this bubble will burst and when it does, there will be other opportunities to fund the hobby that you love. Move into those with a little more wisdom and some confidence and things will be fine. In the meantime, read the books and enjoy the stories, if you can't have fun with comics then you might as well quit now because there are a lot of better investments out there.

[krighton]

East of West, Focus you must

[WebSlinger]

"Hey, I'm only wrong half the time."

 

You stole my line

 

[CBT]

East of West, Focus you must

 

here, play with this:

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22east+of+west%22+apocalypse&hl=en&biw=1920&bih=960&sa=X&ei=8MpqUbCfF8f1ygG_rIDICQ&ved=0CCEQpwUoBg&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A%2Ccd_max%3A10%2F1%2F2012&tbm=

 

and

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=%22east+of+west%22+apocalypse&hl=en&biw=1920&bih=960&sa=X&ei=8MpqUbCfF8f1ygG_rIDICQ&ved=0CCEQpwUoBg&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A%2Ccd_max%3A10%2F1%2F2012&tbm=#hl=en&tbs=cdr:1%2Ccd_max%3A10%2F1%2F2012&sclient=psy-ab&q=%22east+of+west%22&oq=%22east+of+west%22&gs_l=serp.3..0l4.30731.30863.0.31345.2.2.0.0.0.1.154.296.0j2.2.0...0.0...1c..9.psy-ab.pLG_3_1zf_o&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45175338,d.aWc&fp=e39206b53577e54c&biw=1920&bih=960

 

 

 

the expression "east of west" with and without the word "apocalypse" added on, prior to the announcement of the comic's name in october. That should give people some meat to play with...

 

 

this one is fun...from a book refering to the era after the soviet union collapsed. Interesting given that China controls the West in EoW, and the US "west" has been collapsed, with the "east" present in it....

 

"http://bnreview.barnesandnoble.com/t5/In-the-Margin/East-of-the-West/ba-p/5505"

 

"They seem reflective of the period after everything has collapsed, when people realize life continues, post apocalypse, and they must now figure out how to carry on."

 

 

Edited April 14, 2013 by CBT

[Nexus]

As for what price is too much. In the same way that WD lifts all other moderns below it when it tracks a new high, and proves "what's possible". The golden age rarities do the same and open up space for people to pay more on the silvers. Same way things like the mcfarlane art sale "let" people start justify paying much more for OA, even pieces of questionable future relevance.

 

Yup...the ratchet effect:

 

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/ratchet-effect.html

 

However, the McFarlane sales weren't what created the recent price hikes in OA. The McFarlane sales were themselves a reaction to previous six figure sales (both public and private). But I agree with the general point.

 

Dips in a market, or corrections to a bubble, are buying opportunities for well positioned people. Not just in comics, but all markets. It shakes out weak hands, breaks people playing on margin (debt), and sets strong floors for values. aka, even during the correction item X never went below price Y.

 

I agree...except buying on the way down is counter to our psychology. Not that there aren't those who are capable of it, but it takes a strong will.

 

In the overall scheme of comic collecting, it seems to me that moderns is where the most active day trading takes place, with new books being the equivalent of penny stocks. Thus, a higher proportion of "weak hands" and "people playing on margin". There are bubbles everywhere, including OA, but there are stronger hands in that side of the hobby. So while not immune to a crash, it's less likely to happen. Same hobby, same fans, but two very different dynamics.

[ItsJustRyan]

Diversify, diversify, diversify. Buy Garbage Pail Kids!!

[comicsnyc22]

Agree-- If people think they're just going to get rich off of every Image #1, or even moderns for than matter, you're in the wrong biz. 2012 is over!

[krighton]

the human animal is not prone to take advice......you could preach the bubble is going to burst and even if people actually could see a bubble and saw a needle approaching a bubble and saw the needle pressing against the bubble they would hold out until the last possible second wanting to get as much as they can before it happens.

 

True story, friend of mine was in a Ponzi scheme, I knew it was a Ponzi scheme and he knew it was but he was making money and didn't want to believe it, I warned him many times to get his money out but he wanted to wait a bit longer......well the Ponzi crashed, the accounts were locked down by the feds and he lost most all of his money (and he eventually committed suicide because of it).

 

PEOPLE JUST DO NOT WANT TO HEAR THE TRUTH...especially if they're still making money.

[ItsJustRyan]

Agree-- If people think they're just going to get rich off of every Image #1, or even moderns for than matter, you're in the wrong biz. 2012 is over!

I disagree with the 2012 comment.

 

There are some people who do well in any market condition.

 

What are we going to say next year, 2013 is over?

[krighton]

2013 is looking good, EoW is a solid $10 comic

[comicsnyc22]

I just don't see any brand new books surprising anyone, or flying under the radar anymore.

[krighton]

I don't know if it matters

[ItsJustRyan]

I just don't see any brand new books surprising anyone, or flying under the radar anymore.

There's at least one every month. Remember Spawn #9 last month. Stuff likes this happens all the time. We recently heard about Pilot Season: The Test. Stuff like that happens all the time. Helheim was not hyped huge pre-release. You may be right in the many of the new titles are on the radar. But, keep in mind that 90% of comic readers don't keep up with what's coming out and when. They just walk into an LCS and ask, "what's new?"

 

When the housing bubble popped, smart people took advantage of the situation. So the question is (and what CBT has already said), do you want to the the turkey or the hawk?

 

Bubbles do exist. Corrections occur. Risk is involved. Just don't gamble to hard on one title unless you can afford to take the heat.

 

R

[ItsJustRyan]

I don't know if it matters

It doesn't IMHO.

[Jking3437]

I enjoy this book more than NWM, looking forward to issue #2.

 

Also I wish my comic would come back from CGC already !!

[krighton]

I think a lot of it is preaching to the choir...many here keep their fingers on the pulse of the ebb and flow of the comic market and have the ability to 'get out' before something drastic happens. There's casualties in every money making venture, I don't plan on being one of them.