Nice Silver-Age Marvels on ComicLink

[Rocketeer]

Price was good for the buyer. I think the seller was the original purchaser from Heritage in '02. So he lost about 600 dollars in the sale.

 

Brian

 

...was the seller matt nelson?

[tth2]

Avengers 2

Avengers 3

 

Now you've seen two!

 

Brian

 

Okay, now I really have to find out who's selling!

[tth2]

But heres my question. Are you guys really comfortable building HG and pedigree runs at these prices? You all know Im not a crash advocate.... but my attitude is to see if prices settle down to more comfortable levels on non-keys. If they do great, Ill upgrade. But if they dont - - well, I missed out! Too bad for me - - you cant have everything and since my runs just arent as HG as I thought, so be it! Im not gonna chase them at thousands of $$s apiece.

 

Id rather buy keys. I think they have a better chance of holding value. But do you all feel the Keys are even MORE out of whack? Somehow it seems it there would always be greater demand for an Avengers 1 or 4 than a run of 2, 3 plus 5 thru 10. Im like you guys - - I want the whole run in HG, but not for what it costs today....

 

so what do youse think?

 

This approach works fine IF you're right and prices come down. And they very may might. I'm no crash theorist either, but prices are getting pretty nosebleed. But if you're wrong, then you'll have missed an opportunity to snag a particular book, which may not come along again, or if it does, then it might be even more expensive! There are collectors who sat out the first GMAI CGC auction because they thought the prices were nuts and would settle down. They'd be happy to get some of the same books at double the price today.

 

Also, some collectors may not be as laid back as you about not filling out their collections when the opportunity comes along. I still gnash my teeth about not picking up the 9.4 Western Penn Flash 123 when it came up at Heritage in June, even though I know I made the right choice for me, because it's final price was at a level that just was not justifiable to me.

[tth2]

You could spend many years waiting and watching and nothing could happen. If you want the books and feel comfortable buy them. If you're afraid of some unseen crash, don't buy them. It all depends on your comfort level and how long you're willing to wait. I'd wait, but I don't foresee some huge discount down the line so it's not worthwhile to me.

 

Brian

 

I think most SA Marvels, even keys, are available in 9.4 at the right price. As mentioned in my other post, it's not always necessarily a case of missing an opportunity, but also the risk that you'll have to pay more later for the same opportunity.

[namisgr]

I'm with Murph and TTH on this one. First off, I am a collector rather than an investor in comics. I only sell books for which I've purchased upgrades, and hold onto nearly all the books in my collection without flipping. Second, in doing this for the past dozen years, I have yet to see evidence for a large drop in selling prices for very high grade early Silver. My comic purchasing is budgeted, and I shoot for spending roughly the same amount year-in year-out. Should a price dip occur, I would happily use the opportunity to buy more books. Finally, I am a completist collector, and take pleasure in owning runs of ASM from 2-242, FF from 3-175, etc. I like having lots of books in a range of grades over having just a few keys in absolute top grade.

[drbanner]

I really do get a laugh over the crash talk. While sitting in my home, watching my TV/Car/Electronics/Everything depreciate before my eyes. I buy none of those things because of an "investment" potential. I buy them because I enjoy them. I also get enjoyment out of owning comics, so I buy them. If they appreciate, wonderful there's some money I may or may not ever see. If they depreciate, big deal, it's one more thing to add to the list of depreciating goods I own. I know someone will say "but but some of this stuff is so expensive it has to be investments". To that I say, if it costs so much to you that you can only see it as an investment then maybe it's beyond your means. The point isn't that those who have great comics collections are spitting on the ppl with the small collections Instead, it's if the only way you can qualify owning something is by thinking of it as an investment then that money is likely money you shouldn't be spending.

If people held out only for things that appreciated, they'd be left with virtually no possessions whatsoever.

 

Brian

 

 

These sound like the words of a wise man Murph!

[blowout]

I really do get a laugh over the crash talk. While sitting in my home, watching my TV/Car/Electronics/Everything depreciate before my eyes. I buy none of those things because of an "investment" potential. I buy them because I enjoy them. I also get enjoyment out of owning comics, so I buy them. If they appreciate, wonderful there's some money I may or may not ever see. If they depreciate, big deal, it's one more thing to add to the list of depreciating goods I own. I know someone will say "but but some of this stuff is so expensive it has to be investments". To that I say, if it costs so much to you that you can only see it as an investment then maybe it's beyond your means. The point isn't that those who have great comics collections are spitting on the ppl with the small collections Instead, it's if the only way you can qualify owning something is by thinking of it as an investment then that money is likely money you shouldn't be spending.

If people held out only for things that appreciated, they'd be left with virtually no possessions whatsoever.

 

Brian

 

 

 

These sound like the words of a wise man Murph!

 

I could think of at least one person who wouldn't agree.

[dam60]

I really do get a laugh over the crash talk. While sitting in my home, watching my TV/Car/Electronics/Everything depreciate before my eyes. I buy none of those things because of an "investment" potential. I buy them because I enjoy them. I also get enjoyment out of owning comics, so I buy them. If they appreciate, wonderful there's some money I may or may not ever see. If they depreciate, big deal, it's one more thing to add to the list of depreciating goods I own. I know someone will say "but but some of this stuff is so expensive it has to be investments". To that I say, if it costs so much to you that you can only see it as an investment then maybe it's beyond your means. The point isn't that those who have great comics collections are spitting on the ppl with the small collections Instead, it's if the only way you can qualify owning something is by thinking of it as an investment then that money is likely money you shouldn't be spending.

If people held out only for things that appreciated, they'd be left with virtually no possessions whatsoever.

 

Brian

 

 

 

These sound like the words of a wise man Murph!

 

I could think of at least one person who wouldn't agree.

 

Let me say that I don't agree

 

I can only imagine that this post will be tainted by my bitterness at not being able to afford many of the books that I want but I do feel that now many of these prices are just too high to be justified. I did not look at a single Comiclink avenger but I did look at the Good Captain's site and noticed 2 Avenger 25s that had recently sold - one a 9.4 Curator for $500 and a 9.6 non pedigree for $1500! The book guides in 9.2 for $80!! $1500 is 18.75x guide! Doesn't this make anyone else uneasy? I know it's not silver age but in 2002 - summer 2003 I was buying my Neal Adams bat books at multiples that I was comfortable with - I paid 4x 9.4 guide for my 9.6 of 232, 200 and 6x 9.4 guide for my 251. I wouldn't dream of paying more than 6x guide for ANY book in 9.6 (which is why the market has admittedly moved away from me). I know SA Marvels are a different animal but at 18.75x guide when a vg copy could be had for probably $20 seems to be very aggressive.

 

I do recognize and appreciate the "pride of ownership" argument but at a certain level, say 18.75x guide, wouldn't it be better to get a nice 9.2 for 2x guide, hell even 6x guide, and get tons of other books as well or to go for one Doom appearance Avengers in perfect shape? I have to think that the majority of "collectors" would go for more books and that the "speculators" would go for the keys - which I would not consider A25 one. Non-key books going for these kind to multiples seem to indicate an over valued market, at least to me.

 

To address Murph's incredibly valid point (and one that I agree with) of "To that I say, if it costs so much to you that you can only see it as an investment then maybe it's beyond your means" I would ask - wouldn't you get more enjoyment from having more books in only marginally lower grades?

 

Please note that this is not at all to be taken as an insult to the Good Captain who I have had the pleasure of meeting several times in the past. He obviously did a great job for his consigor which should be a dealers first priority

 

My two cents,

 

DAM

[clobberintime]

I think what is laughable is that the idea of spending 100s or thousands of dollars for a plastic encased comic book is not investment but solely for the pleasure of it. Since you can't use the book for its intended purpose - reading it - how on earth can you compare it to watching tv, driving your car, or listening to your stereo? I would not be buying a Spidey 1 9.0 simply for the joy or owning it and getting to look at the cover thru plastic. I have been working on my Marvel collection for longer than a few of you have been alive and I buy a good many books for speculation - I already have another high grade cgc copy of Spidey 1. I am also a run completionist though and collect high grade books because that is what I want. But I would not be buying nm cgc comics unless I thought I could get my money back if I needed to. Not even the wealthiest people I know just squander their money for the hell of it. And I think you could have a much better time going on vacation, gambling, drinking etc than just spending money on plastic covered comics that may or may not have any value - if you were in it merely for pleasure you would be buying nice looking non-cgc comics and not worrying about restoration etc. So let's stop kidding ourselves please.

[drbanner]

Murph's point has nothing to do with investments, the future potential re-sale value of the book, or whether or not 4/6/12/18x guide is "justified", it's simply that he enjoys owning them, he thinks the price is appropriate and he can afford the books, so he buys them. I think everyone that buys old comic books has the exact same position, with the obvious caveat being everyone has their own take on what price is justified/appropriate, right?

[sfilosa]

can only imagine that this post will be tainted by my bitterness at not being able to afford many of the books that I want but I do feel that now many of these prices are just too high to be justified. I did not look at a single Comiclink avenger but I did look at the Good Captain's site and noticed 2 Avenger 25s that had recently sold - one a 9.4 Curator for $500 and a 9.6 non pedigree for $1500! The book guides in 9.2 for $80!! $1500 is 18.75x guide! Doesn't this make anyone else uneasy?

 

 

Three quick points:

 

1) Overstreet Guide value is mostly IRRELEVANT. Simply put, the multiple of guide for JIM is double to triple the multiple of guide to X-Men. Certain titles / issues are way more undervalued and certain books are overvalued.

 

2) So far I picked up four books. And while I don't believe I got any of them below market value (at this time), I don't believe I significantly overpaid for any of the books.

 

3) The books that I purchased were issues that I don't believe are very common (or at least not available for sale very often).

 

Summarize: I do tend to stay away from the more COMMON issues, but that said, many of these were priced right at market value and many are pedigree issues.

[dam60]

Murph's point has nothing to do with investments, the future potential re-sale value of the book, or whether or not 4/6/12/18x guide is "justified", it's simply that he enjoys owning them, he thinks the price is appropriate and he can afford the books, so he buys them. I think everyone that buys old comic books has the exact same position, with the obvious caveat being everyone has their own take on what price is justified/appropriate, right?

 

Dr. B, I don't think that "everyone that buys old comic books has the exact same position". In fact, I would think that MANY people buy books for investment. Personally, I have a few books that I care nothing about but bought solely and strictly as an investment. This is not to say that i doubt Murph's intentions or anything to that sort - simply that speculators definitely exist in the hobby.

 

Clobberintime - great post,

 

DAM

[Red Hook]

I think this could turn into a endless loop debate over the merits of slabbing books to begin with......this is just a debate about the higher end of it.

 

I can only speak for myself, everyone obviously has their own justification for collecting or not collecting any high enders. My Avengers run has everything in it from 7.0 to a 9.6. I have an 8.5 Avengers 22 Green River that was one of the first I bought, for under $100, and didn't think for a second about upgrading to the 9.4 GR copy that came up on the Captains site.

 

I actually was the one who purchased the Curator 9.4 of Avengers 25 and I have loved having it, because I love seeing such a great example of the book. It's a super cover and I'd never even seen a Curator before and I wanted just one.

 

I don't flip, and I have never upgraded a book. I enjoy the slabbed copies of my books in a different way than I do my readers. To me, as I've said before, a nice copy of a book with a favorite cover gives me as much pleasure as examining a Japanese print. The cover is enough for me in many cases. And the whole thing appeals 100% to my OCD tendancies.

 

If I examine my motivations, it probably comes down to a combination of loving the books and yet having something liquid that I could cash in in case of an emergency (like year four of my 13 year old's eventual college tuition). But the comics would be the very last thing I let go.

 

I have a retirement plan in place, and I also have a college saving plan. I do consider these CGC purchases an extravagance and I don't sit and try to calculate the prices I might get for them in 5 or 10 years. Honestly, if I owned them for 5 or 10 years and you told me I could get 75% of what I spent on them, I would be quite satisfied. Try getting that with your average car. If you told me in 20 years I would get 50% of the money I had spent, that would be cool. But I don't really see that happening anyway. These aren't part of my investment portfolio.

 

Will there be a big crash? The answer is "No one knows." If there was one tomorrow, I wouldn't care a whit.

 

I think for every collector you meet, you will find a different set of motivations for doing what we do. The three Avengers I bought on Comiclink will be much loved in my collection. I can't usually spend that kind of money at the drop of a hat, but better on that then on a zillion other things I can think of. If I have gotten paid by a client recently, and I've met my other financial obligations first, then what the heck. It's mad money. I enjoy it, I love the books. I love beautiful covers. That's it for me.

[dam60]

I actually was the one who purchased the Curator 9.4 of Avengers 25 and I have loved having it, because I love seeing such a great example of the book. It's a super cover and I'd never even seen a Curator before and I wanted just one.

 

RH - you know that I know that you bought that book It is definitely a pretty book having seen it first hand and I am glad that you are happy with your purchase

 

I used that book not so much as a fault to you for your purchase but I don't understand how a 9.4 PEDIGREE can go for 1/3 of a 9.6 NON PEDIGREE. To me that makes no sense, but then again what do I know? God knows I don't spend much time on Marvels

[drbanner]

Murph's point has nothing to do with investments, the future potential re-sale value of the book, or whether or not 4/6/12/18x guide is "justified", it's simply that he enjoys owning them, he thinks the price is appropriate and he can afford the books, so he buys them. I think everyone that buys old comic books has the exact same position, with the obvious caveat being everyone has their own take on what price is justified/appropriate, right?

 

Dr. B, I don't think that "everyone that buys old comic books has the exact same position". In fact, I would think that MANY people buy books for investment. Personally, I have a few books that I care nothing about but bought solely and strictly as an investment. This is not to say that i doubt Murph's intentions or anything to that sort - simply that speculators definitely exist in the hobby.

 

Clobberintime - great post,

 

DAM

 

You're right...there are certainly investors/speculators, but even they will only buy at a price they personally feel is justified/appropriate.

[Red Hook]

I actually was the one who purchased the Curator 9.4 of Avengers 25 and I have loved having it, because I love seeing such a great example of the book. It's a super cover and I'd never even seen a Curator before and I wanted just one.

 

RH - you know that I know that you bought that book It is definitely a pretty book having seen it first hand and I am glad that you are happy with your purchase

 

I used that book not so much as a fault to you for your purchase but I don't understand how a 9.4 PEDIGREE can go for 1/3 of a 9.6 NON PEDIGREE. To me that makes no sense, but then again what do I know? God knows I don't spend much time on Marvels

 

I know you weren't trying to rag me Dave. No offense taken, trust me!

 

And no, I can't explain 9.6 prices. That's why, when Murph drew my attention to it, I jumped all over the Avengers 39 GR 9.6 going for $350. It's the only 9.6 I will own, and the only reason I did it was because it was a GR. Otherwise I would have let it go.......maybe.

[Silver Surfer]

I think this could turn into a endless loop debate over the merits of slabbing books to begin with......this is just a debate about the higher end of it.

 

I can only speak for myself, everyone obviously has their own justification for collecting or not collecting any high enders. My Avengers run has everything in it from 7.0 to a 9.6. I have an 8.5 Avengers 22 Green River that was one of the first I bought, for under $100, and didn't think for a second about upgrading to the 9.4 GR copy that came up on the Captains site.

 

I actually was the one who purchased the Curator 9.4 of Avengers 25 and I have loved having it, because I love seeing such a great example of the book. It's a super cover and I'd never even seen a Curator before and I wanted just one.

 

I don't flip, and I have never upgraded a book. I enjoy the slabbed copies of my books in a different way than I do my readers. To me, as I've said before, a nice copy of a book with a favorite cover gives me as much pleasure as examining a Japanese print. The cover is enough for me in many cases. And the whole thing appeals 100% to my OCD tendancies.

 

If I examine my motivations, it probably comes down to a combination of loving the books and yet having something liquid that I could cash in in case of an emergency (like year four of my 13 year old's eventual college tuition). But the comics would be the very last thing I let go.

 

I have a retirement plan in place, and I also have a college saving plan. I do consider these CGC purchases an extravagance and I don't sit and try to calculate the prices I might get for them in 5 or 10 years. Honestly, if I owned them for 5 or 10 years and you told me I could get 75% of what I spent on them, I would be quite satisfied. Try getting that with your average car. If you told me in 20 years I would get 50% of the money I had spent, that would be cool. But I don't really see that happening anyway. These aren't part of my investment portfolio.

 

Will there be a big crash? The answer is "No one knows." If there was one tomorrow, I wouldn't care a whit.

 

I think for every collector you meet, you will find a different set of motivations for doing what we do. The three Avengers I bought on Comiclink will be much loved in my collection. I can't usually spend that kind of money at the drop of a hat, but better on that then on a zillion other things I can think of. If I have gotten paid by a client recently, and I've met my other financial obligations first, then what the heck. It's mad money. I enjoy it, I love the books. I love beautiful covers. That's it for me.

 

Hook,

 

I can't imagine anyone putting it any better than you did. Whenever another crash thread starts up please cut and paste these words of wisdom. Bravo.

[fantastic_four]

Some prices got reduced on books that have been sitting unsold on ComicLink for a few months...I bought that X-Men #23 CGC 9.6 after it got reduced from $850 to $625. There was another CGC 9.6 white-paged copy of that book on Link for a few months at $950 at the same time as the one I bought, and my jaw dropped to the floor last week when I saw the exact same copy relisted on PedigreeComics.com for $1900 and a "Sale Pending" price of $1700!!! This begged two questions...why didn't this book sell at half the price on ComicLink, and why did the seller of the other copy that I bought drop the price shortly after this sale?

 

I'm almost expecting there to be intra-slab handling damage on the copy I just bought...I hope I'm wrong!!! I don't know how other potential buyers would be any wiser to this than I was. I'm hoping I just lucked out...

[sfilosa]

I'm almost expecting there to be intra-slab handling damage on the copy I just bought...I hope I'm wrong!!! I don't know how other potential buyers would be any wiser to this than I was. I'm hoping I just lucked out...

 

I wouldn't worry about your copy until you see it. You probably just got a very reasonable price.

 

There are definitely a few sellers with worthy collections (i.e. X-Men, Avengers, Daredevil, etc.) who are not trying for top dollar on every book. They are pricing them at (or slightly above) market value. No real bargains, but if you want the book for your collection, they are available at a reasonable price.

[Murph]

And exactly how many people are buying 100 thousand dollar books? I think I can count the number on one hand. When creating the post I was addressing the general population, not the .01 percent of the collecting population.

I'm more interested in buying the books because I enjoy them, if they turn a profit that's great.. if they don't, chalk it up to another thing that depreciated. I don't understand the concept that buying high grade books means you HAVE to be investing, it simply doesn't. Buy what you like, I don't like worn books. And I already have long boxes of mid grade copies that I read. Therefore I don't buy them.

 

Brian