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CGC Gets it right most of the time...

Started by the blob,

243 posts in this topic

skypinkblu

skypinkblu

Posted
Posted

 

The nicks in the purple box appear to be pre-Marvel Chipping. Allowable even at 9.8? hm

 

I guess I'm looking for next to perfect in a 9.8...Do you see where the pages are visible at the top? that bothers me more.

 

That book is next to perfect. A CGC 9.8 does not mean "no defects". It generally means there are going to be a few very tiny defects keeping it out of a higher grade.

 

Pretty much every Marvel Silver Age book ever printed has pages hanging out past the cover on the right side. That's a product of production (which direction the right edge was cut - up or down) and the shrinking of the pages over time and has nothing to do with wear and tear. That is not factored into the grade at all in my experience.

 

Paper does shrink over time as the pulp dries out.

 

I'm just happy that I don't covet 9.8's, because I sure would factor in paper shrinkage

 

That's totally cool.

 

There is no standard "grading bible" and that is why people, even people who know how to grade will disagree. I'll disagree with Bob, F_T or they may disagree with each other.

 

Another factor that I have come to realize is that the quality of someone's eyesight will affect how they grade. Someone with eagle eyes, or a personal pet peeve against a specific defect will grade the same book differently than another person. That's why grading is subjective - everyone sees something differently.

 

That's why each buyer should buy the book that appeals to them, as that's the only opinion that matters.

 

The owner of the 9.8 loves his book and has no complaints.

 

 

I never said I didn't know HOW to grade, lol...I'm just more comfortable in the grades I collect...the only grading contest I ever entered, I figured I was pretty respectable winding up in the top 1/2...and I skipped the first 2 books because I didn't realize how the contest worked, so I lost points...http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=4608935&fpart=1 It was a lot of fun...reminded me of exam time, but still fun;)

 

 

Anyway, I'm sure that was not what you were trying to say...and I realize you need to defend your business, so I'll just not comment on any more books you post as examples here.

 

I just don't consider myself a professional grader...I'm a collector and as a collector and someone who loves old comics, I feel pain when I see this stuff going on. .

 

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blazingbob

blazingbob

Posted
Posted

Roy,

Why do you feel that any of the CGC graders are going to consciously tell your or I for that matter that they are grading loosely? So that you or I can come on the boards and state that "Hey, I know that they are grading loosely, so and so told me". First off that person would be fired if I owned the company. Changes aren't conscious? Really? Again, if enough people who have submitted a lot of books and who CGC respects will give them an honest answer they might tighten or loosen depending on the feedback. CGC will do what they want anyway. Sellers who are submitting naturally want the best grade they can possibly get while the buyer wants the best looking book for the grade. And lets not lie that if a collector or dealer sees that 9.6 in a 9.4 holder the temptation to "send it in and reap the $$$$ rewards is compelling. Everybody wants to do the "CGC home run trot" when a book comes back way above your expectation.

 

 

 

 

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
Yeah, time for a speech from Roy about how a 9.9 isn't perfect and will still carry a very minor defect. :baiting:

 

From your lips to god's ears.

 

lol

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted

Anyway, I'm sure that was not what you were trying to say...and I realize you need to defend your business, so I'll just not comment on any more books you post as examples here.

 

I'm not defending my business, I'm just trying to show what CGC graded books look like today to counter the opinion that it's been all downhill since 2001.

 

I don't mind comments as long as they are not accusatory. If we're just discussing grades from scans, that's an easy discussion and as I said, everyone grades books differently.

 

Most "tough graders" are usually in the same ballpark but will still disagree on grades because everyone sees something differently, so that 9.8 could be an 8.5 or a 9.2 to you personally (just choosing an arbitrary number for the sake of conversation, not directed at you)....which is fine as long as you are consistent within your own grading scale.

 

 

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DR.X

DR.X

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Posted
Everybody wants to do the "CGC home run trot" when a book comes back way above your expectation.

 

Bob, I don't think we all feel that way on every book. I have books that have came back way above my assigned grade. I actually showed a few of them to other boardies at Wizard and they just kind of snickered.

 

My point is that when a book comes back way above expectations, is the buyer going to be happy with it, or want a refund because he feels the book is way overgraded.

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blazingbob

blazingbob

Posted
Posted

Well if I showed people my book and they snickered I wouldn't exactly feel good about it.

 

You know how I know that certain CGC books are overgraded. When I constantly see them bought and sold and back up for sale again over and over again. The CGC "Hot potato".

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DR.X

DR.X

Posted
Posted
Well if I showed people my book and they snickered I wouldn't exactly feel good about it.

 

That's my point, I didn't feel good about it. I felt they were way over-graded. I'll bring one to Chicago this year and show you what I mean. You'll probably just snicker. :baiting:

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joecgcmaniac

joecgcmaniac

Posted
Posted
Well if I showed people my book and they snickered I wouldn't exactly feel good about it.

 

You know how I know that certain CGC books are overgraded. When I constantly see them bought and sold and back up for sale again over and over again. The CGC "Hot potato".

 

C'mon Bob, you know certain posters here will just say that those particular books are just "popular" and not overgraded. doh!

 

 

:insane:

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Bomber-Bob

Bomber-Bob

Posted
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As for me, I avoid slabs with serial numbers in the 104... and 105... range. ;)

 

I also practice the art of avoiding cert ranges graded during certain soft periods. Anything graded in 2011 should be returned.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
Roy,

Why do you feel that any of the CGC graders are going to consciously tell your or I for that matter that they are grading loosely? So that you or I can come on the boards and state that "Hey, I know that they are grading loosely, so and so told me". First off that person would be fired if I owned the company. Changes aren't conscious? Really? Again, if enough people who have submitted a lot of books and who CGC respects will give them an honest answer they might tighten or loosen depending on the feedback. CGC will do what they want anyway. Sellers who are submitting naturally want the best grade they can possibly get while the buyer wants the best looking book for the grade.

 

I don't feel they are obligated to say anything but I don't know whether a company would instruct employees to lie either as that would be unethical and definitely would eventually come out as employees left the company. The best answer (and most professional one IMO) would simply be to answer "I am not allowed by contract to comment on anything to do with our grading standards" and yet they don't...they pretty much answer every question you ask them with quality answers.

 

That's why I think they are telling the truth.

 

As far as them making conscious changes, I covered that in a previous post: I'm sure they make conscious decisions based on input from trusted sources. They hear the crowd clamouring that they are either loose or tight and they reassess and adjust accordingly, whether it's conscious or subconcious - they are human. I just don't think they are consciously, or maybe a better word is purposefully, shifting from loose to tight to generate revenue as some would imply. It's possible but I don't believe it based on what's been presented so far.

 

Personally, I think it's like a sports team - as the chemistry make-up of the team changes, the results of the team change and it takes a manager and a coach to keep the team on track.

 

In this case, the manager or coach is this forum and the feedback they get from their submitters.

 

I think the grading standards fluctuating are a result of this.

 

And lets not lie that if a collector or dealer sees that 9.6 in a 9.4 holder the temptation to "send it in and reap the $$$$ rewards is compelling. Everybody wants to do the "CGC home run trot" when a book comes back way above your expectation.

 

I don't think a single person will disagree with you on that one.

 

 

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lizards2

lizards2

Posted
Posted
Well if I showed people my book and they snickered I wouldn't exactly feel good about it.

 

You know how I know that certain CGC books are overgraded. When I constantly see them bought and sold and back up for sale again over and over again. The CGC "Hot potato".

Better known as "turd in a slab"
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lizards2

lizards2

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Posted
Like the Curator copy of Avengers #25, a 9.4 with a honking crease in the lower left corner. There are 5 sales of this hot potato recorded on GPA alone.

 

I love how the 'Honker, Andar' reference has permeated even mainstream culture :luhv:

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Paratrooper

Paratrooper

Posted
Posted

No doubt it's a beautiful copy. Likely the best copy of that book in existence.

 

While Roy's copy is a gorgeous one, there's a 9.9 of this issue.

 

Still can't on to cgccomics.com to see the census. :(

 

Maybe they're trying to tell you something :baiting:

 

 

 

:P

The Mods have introduced a punishment below the wrist slap - it's a finger pull.

 

That's what they refer to as "The Paratrooper" punishment :sick:

 

:banana:

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sufunk

sufunk

Posted
Posted
Like the Curator copy of Avengers #25, a 9.4 with a honking crease in the lower left corner. There are 5 sales of this hot potato recorded on GPA alone.

 

There is? You cant see it in the scan on eBay.

 

I hope you are right cus i've looked at that book for like 2 years but theres no best offer and you cant even contact the seller thru eBay.

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jimjum12

jimjum12

Posted
Posted

We all miss things on our books when we grade them from time to time. We also disagree from time to time with each other on what a book's grade is.Just look in the grading forum for examples of this. CGC doesn't fluctuate any more than we do ourselves....probably less. I send my books in for "proof of consensus".......I can then add my opinion either informationally or by my asking price.....should I disagree. They do a pretty good job IMHO..... but I'll reserve judgement until I've spent a month of 60 hour weeks grading other people's comics.........GOD BLESS.....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

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rjpb

rjpb

Posted
Posted
We all miss things on our books when we grade them from time to time. We also disagree from time to time with each other on what a book's grade is.Just look in the grading forum for examples of this. CGC doesn't fluctuate any more than we do ourselves....probably less. I send my books in for "proof of consensus".......I can then add my opinion either informationally or by my asking price.....should I disagree. They do a pretty good job IMHO..... but I'll reserve judgement until I've spent a month of 60 hour weeks grading other people's comics.........GOD BLESS.....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

Your response is way too rational. Are you sure you're really a comic collector?

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rjpb

rjpb

Posted
Posted
Like the Curator copy of Avengers #25, a 9.4 with a honking crease in the lower left corner. There are 5 sales of this hot potato recorded on GPA alone.

 

There is? You cant see it in the scan on eBay.

 

I hope you are right cus i've looked at that book for like 2 years but theres no best offer and you cant even contact the seller thru eBay.

 

I wouldn't call it a "honking crease", but the two color breaking spine ticks at the lower left and the bend at the top right corner could indicate a "soft" 9.4 though I suppose one could argue that those are the reasons it's not a 9.8

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