Back Cover vs. Front Cover

[Paul_Maul]

Is there any kind of rule of thumb for how much of a downgrade a defect causes

if it's on the back cover vs. the front cover?

 

For example, a 1/2" crease on the back cover vs. on the front?

 

Over the years I have been sold many a book as NM with a small back cover

crease....especially since the back cover is usually white, making it less

noticable.

 

Opinions?

[Stout1]

While the first impression is always of the front cover, I downgrade them the same amount. It is affecting the book's grade. It is a disappointment and a let down too see a 9.4 cover with a 7.0 back cover... It has/will stop me from buying a book I want/need.

[fantastic_four]

I just bumped up a thread we started on this almost a year ago (this is about the third or fourth time I've seen this topic come up). Here's a direct link to the last thread I could find on this subject:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=gradeandresto&Number=314251

[divad]

Is there any kind of rule of thumb for how much of a downgrade a defect causes

if it's on the back cover vs. the front cover?

 

For example, a 1/2" crease on the back cover vs. on the front?

 

Over the years I have been sold many a book as NM with a small back cover

crease....especially since the back cover is usually white, making it less

noticable.

 

Opinions?

 

The defects grade the same, however, the eye appeal is vastly different.

[s-man]

I can attest to the fact that the back is graded pretty much the same as the front with my GSXM #1 copy. There is writing on the back cover, which is really the only major defect in the book. The front is fairly white, with only a couple minor color flecks and no spine damage at all; also the corners are all square. If CGC graded only/mostly according to the front cover, then I wouldve gotten a much higher grade on the book then I did. But because of the writing, the book was severly downgraded.

[fantastic_four]

The defects grade the same

 

This definitely isn't true by CGC's standards. I've got a CGC 7.5 book with a 3.5" back cover crease; this same book wouldn't get any higher than a 6.5 if it were on the front cover. I've also got a CGC 9.0 with a 1.5" to 2" back cover crease, and there's no way they'd give it 9.0 if there were one that long on the front; 7.0 to 7.5 would be the max.

[fantastic_four]

I can attest to the fact that the back is graded pretty much the same as the front with my GSXM #1 copy. There is writing on the back cover, which is really the only major defect in the book. The front is fairly white, with only a couple minor color flecks and no spine damage at all; also the corners are all square. If CGC graded only/mostly according to the front cover, then I wouldve gotten a much higher grade on the book then I did. But because of the writing, the book was severly downgraded.

 

How can you be sure it was the writing they downgraded for--did you call for grader's notes to make sure where weren't non-color-breaking creases, interior defects, or tanning hidden from view on the exterior by cover art? What kind of writing is it? CGC often doesn't downgrade at all for writing below the 9.8 level unless it's very prominent or extensive.

[s-man]

I can attest to the fact that the back is graded pretty much the same as the front with my GSXM #1 copy. There is writing on the back cover, which is really the only major defect in the book. The front is fairly white, with only a couple minor color flecks and no spine damage at all; also the corners are all square. If CGC graded only/mostly according to the front cover, then I wouldve gotten a much higher grade on the book then I did. But because of the writing, the book was severly downgraded.

 

How can you be sure it was the writing they downgraded for--did you call for grader's notes to make sure where weren't non-color-breaking creases, interior defects, or tanning hidden from view on the exterior by cover art? What kind of writing is it? CGC often doesn't downgrade at all for writing below the 9.8 level unless it's very prominent or extensive.

 

No, I didnt get the graders notes, but from what I can see (and before I submitted I looked at this book very carefully, as did a few other lcs guys that I know and trust)...and the writing is the only significant damage. The wrting is in black ink and faily extensive across the top of the back. It is very noticable.

[fantastic_four]

The wrting is in black ink and faily extensive across the top of the back. It is very noticable.

 

What does it say, and what is the total extent in square inches that it covers? I've seen dozens, possibly hundreds, of CGC books with writing, and I've got a really good idea bout how they downgrade for it, so if you'll describe it in more detail, I can possibly put it into perspective with scans and/or text descriptions of similar CGC books I've seen.

 

Also, what grade did they give it?

[divad]

FF,

With all due respect - just ask them . . .

divad

[fantastic_four]

With all due respect - just ask them . . .

 

Ask who? Ask them what?

[divad]

With all due respect - just ask them . . .

 

Ask who? Ask them what?

 

The boys in the band . . . (CGC) and the same question we are discussing here. It doesn't really matter what we think, does it?

[fantastic_four]

The boys in the band . . . (CGC) and the same question we are discussing here. It doesn't really matter what we think, does it?

 

Sure it matters! The grading standard still needs more innovation, and although CGC probably has made theirs more specific than most anyone else ever has, they still hold it as a trade secret and don't answer most questions about what goes into grade. I've asked them about the way they grade several times before, and sometimes I get an answer, and sometimes I don't. I understand why they want to keep the special sauce secret since they've spent their whole careers and several years on CGC's dime developing them. If I ever start selling on a wider scale, submitting a lot more CGCs, talking in person with them at cons, and just in general becoming an actual customer of theirs, I'll ask them these questions directly with more frequency, but in the meantime, I enjoy exploring the holes in the grading standard myself and with others an hour or two a week in an open discussion forum like this.

 

If CGC hadn't started this forum in 2002, I likely would have tried to create my own by now to talk about the esoteric points in grading if another hadn't popped up. Since I now know the EBay boards and the ComicsPriceGuide.com boards exist, I may never have actually created my own, which is fine, because I just wanted an open forum SOMEWHERE to define the unknowns in grading.

[divad]

You knew I was being facetious? didn't you? Great reply

 

I live and die by the front cover! The back cover I need pristine for certain books, but I have a high degree of fungibility when it comes to rarer books.