Definition of Bronze Age ending point for purposes of the boards

[Kenglo1]

The bronze age ended for me with Detective #500 which was the last comic I bought. I did buy the Punisher mini series when that came out a long with a few others.

[Passport Comics]

Anything past 1982 is definitely the cut-off point in my mind. 70-82 for me is the Bronze Age, '83 to around 93 is Copper and beyond that is Modern.

[Bosco685]

Anything past 1982 is definitely the cut-off point in my mind. 70-82 for me is the Bronze Age, '83 to around 93 is Copper and beyond that is Modern.

 

I can see the point, as it is clear you are in different territory around 1982-1983. But then that means titles like Comico Primer #1 and #2, Dazzler #1, Nexus #1 magazine-size, Saga of the Swamp Thing #1, G.I. Joe A Real American Hero #1, Love and Rockets #1 were all Bronze Age books. Most collectors consider these Copper Age publications.

 

That's part of the challenge with this period. It's more a time where, like bababooey posted in another thread, each company phased in at different points in time with changes that clearly marked a change for them. Some became a company, and others changed direction.

 

But collecting in 1980-1984 made for interesting times.

 

 

[jimbo_707]

One standard I've heard is that the copper age began when comic books jumped from 50 cents to 60 cents; that would have been around October of 81 (DC) or the January of 82 (Marvel).

[Bosco685]

One standard I've heard is that the copper age began when comic books jumped from 50 cents to 60 cents; that would have been around October of 81 (DC) or the January of 82 (Marvel).

 

Definitely one of the categories used to help identify transitions between the comic ages:

 

- Changes in prices

 

- Formation of impactful creative teams

 

- Major changes in long-running title

 

- New market focus

 

- Creator-owned foundation

 

It just depends on what you feel more comfortable with.

[Dale Roberts]

It is a very clean approach to pick a single book. We all want that simple cutoff which can be recognized as the transition point. So I can understand why someone would pick something so different like TMNT #1.

 

But in building out that timeline of events brought me more comfort with the conclusion there was no single book which served as the catalyst leading to the Copper Age. It was not that cut-and-dry a period in comic history. And that's okay, because so much greatness occurred during that time.

 

It's definitely a "grey area". Much like Bronze; is it GL#76, Conan #1, ASM 121/122?

 

If you have to pick one, I do like TMNT #1 as the start (if I have to pick a book). It falls within the generally accepted time frame.

 

Nobody disputes that it is a "true key". It ushered in the the Independent books (Cerebus #1 was earlier, but definitely a Bronze book).

 

Chronologically, I might consider Wolverine mini #1. It is a couple of years prior to TMNT #1 and definitely a copper book. What is the 1st key which occurs chronologically that people would call copper age? I might go with Amazing Spider-man #200, as it is January 1980, and makes an easy time to start it.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

What is the cut off for copper.

 

Chronologically, I might consider Wolverine mini #1. It is a couple of years prior to TMNT #1 and definitely a copper book. What is the 1st key which occurs chronologically that people would call copper age? I might go with Amazing Spider-man #200, as it is January 1980, and makes an easy time to start it.

 

As a Spidey fan, I've always heard 252 as the cut off. That is what makes this so confusing.

[Bosco685]

What is the cut off for copper.

 

Chronologically, I might consider Wolverine mini #1. It is a couple of years prior to TMNT #1 and definitely a copper book. What is the 1st key which occurs chronologically that people would call copper age? I might go with Amazing Spider-man #200, as it is January 1980, and makes an easy time to start it.

 

As a Spidey fan, I've always heard 252 as the cut off. That is what makes this so confusing.

 

I've never heard of ASM 252 being considered a Copper Age transition book, though in high demand. But like you said, being a Spidey fan it would seem like the beginning of a different path for the character.

[LetThereBeComics-migration]

It is a very clean approach to pick a single book. We all want that simple cutoff which can be recognized as the transition point. So I can understand why someone would pick something so different like TMNT #1.

 

But in building out that timeline of events brought me more comfort with the conclusion there was no single book which served as the catalyst leading to the Copper Age. It was not that cut-and-dry a period in comic history. And that's okay, because so much greatness occurred during that time.

 

It's definitely a "grey area". Much like Bronze; is it GL#76, Conan #1, ASM 121/122?

 

If you have to pick one, I do like TMNT #1 as the start (if I have to pick a book). It falls within the generally accepted time frame.

 

Nobody disputes that it is a "true key". It ushered in the the Independent books (Cerebus #1 was earlier, but definitely a Bronze book).

 

Chronologically, I might consider Wolverine mini #1. It is a couple of years prior to TMNT #1 and definitely a copper book. What is the 1st key which occurs chronologically that people would call copper age? I might go with Amazing Spider-man #200, as it is January 1980, and makes an easy time to start it.

 

Do people really consider ASM #200 a key?

[Dale Roberts]

It is a very clean approach to pick a single book. We all want that simple cutoff which can be recognized as the transition point. So I can understand why someone would pick something so different like TMNT #1.

 

But in building out that timeline of events brought me more comfort with the conclusion there was no single book which served as the catalyst leading to the Copper Age. It was not that cut-and-dry a period in comic history. And that's okay, because so much greatness occurred during that time.

 

It's definitely a "grey area". Much like Bronze; is it GL#76, Conan #1, ASM 121/122?

 

If you have to pick one, I do like TMNT #1 as the start (if I have to pick a book). It falls within the generally accepted time frame.

 

Nobody disputes that it is a "true key". It ushered in the the Independent books (Cerebus #1 was earlier, but definitely a Bronze book).

 

Chronologically, I might consider Wolverine mini #1. It is a couple of years prior to TMNT #1 and definitely a copper book. What is the 1st key which occurs chronologically that people would call copper age? I might go with Amazing Spider-man #200, as it is January 1980, and makes an easy time to start it.

 

Do people really consider ASM #200 a key?

 

Sure, in the same sense that Amazing Spider-man #100 and #150 is a key, Avengers #100, Iron Man #100, Daredevil #100, Batman #100, #200, & #300.

Its a great story and a historic issue.

 

I don't think a major key has to mark the start of any era, even though it might in many cases, just because it is easier.

[rjpb]

As comic ages are historically defined by superhero books ( without them we wouldn't even be having this discussion), it's much easier to define the Gold and Silver age beginnings due to the genre nearly dying in between, but still an imperfect model as a few superhero titles were published continually with only the comics code to easily identify which era a book would more formally fall into, though with little immediate change in content as far as DC was concerned, and of course the inconvenience that the SA isn't thought to have begun until more than a year after the code stamp appears.

 

The transition from silver to Bronze is trickier, but price changes did seem to herald in a new era of storytelling, and while the debate of what exactly is the first BA book will never be settled there is a general agreement that 12¢ books are SA and 20¢ books are BA, with the big changes happening somewhere in the 15¢ interval.

 

Once you get past that it gets harder to just pick an easy visual like comics code or cover price to determine era, and one has to consider changes in content, distribution and format as being profound enough to herald in a "new" age for the industry.

 

81/82 is the pivot point with the rise of direction distribution and Diamond subsequently taking a major role, resulting in the increased viability of small independent publishers. In many ways the copper age is defined far more by the "independents" than by Marvel and DC, but both companies saw a lot of changes in the early 80s starting with Lee handing the baton to Shooter and culminating in Secret Wars and Crisis, two undeniably Copper Age events. Miller taking full control of DD, and Byrne leaving X-Men were title specific and more the culmination of late Bronze editorial decisions than major events heralding a new age.

 

TMNT is a major CA book, but saying it begins the era would be like crediting FF1 with starting the Silver Age.

 

Later events that are seminal to the copper age are the allowance of creator driven out of continuity and alternate continuity stories/series by DC, the widespread adoption of non-newsprint paper, the popularity of "prestige" format books, and the British invasion at DC.

 

 

[Kenglo1]

Of course Amazing Spider-Man 200 is a key!!

[shadroch]

Death of Aunt May, no?

[rjrjr]

I consider Uncanny X-Men #137 to be the end of the Bronze Age. But maybe that's just me.

 

New Teen Titans #1 came out just a couple months later as well. Sort of a one-two combo for me.

 

When you look at the comics that came out before and after, I agree with you that these 2 issues define the end of the bronze age and the beginning of the copper age.

[Bosco685]

I consider Uncanny X-Men #137 to be the end of the Bronze Age. But maybe that's just me.

 

New Teen Titans #1 came out just a couple months later as well. Sort of a one-two combo for me.

 

When you look at the comics that came out before and after, I agree with you that these 2 issues define the end of the bronze age and the beginning of the copper age.

 

May 1979: Daredevil 158- First Miller art

Nov 1979: Iron Man #128 "Demon in a Bottle"

Feb 1980: She-Hulk #1

Mar 1980: King Conan 1

Apr 1980: Star Trek 1

Spring 1980: Epic Illustrated 1

Sep 1980: X-Men 137- Death of Dark Phoenix

Oct 1980: DC Presents 26- first New Teen Titans

Nov 1980: New Teen Titans 1

Nov 1980: Moon Knight gets his own series

1980 : Superboy Spectacular- Direct Sales only 1-shot

Jan 1981: Daredevil 168- First Miller --script; Intro Elektra

Jan 1981: X-Men 141 "Days of Future Past" launches alternate timeline which would form the basis for many X-continuity books/characters over the next several years.

 

That's where I usually gravitate towards are these three books. But so much happens between 1980-1984, they don't really account for the independent explosion. But it seems to feel right these three helped usher in a new period in comics across the Big Two.

[shadroch]

1980-1985 was a great time to be a comic fan, and also a comic shop owner.

[Whizzer]

Rom 1 December 1979.

[Jamie Coville]

I've always believed "ages" should be defined by comic book distribution. Mainly because the distribution method (and major changes) affect what gets published in both format and content.

 

Newsstand Age would be the first regularly published News stand comic (I always considered this to be The Comics Monthly, but others go much later). I would would make the first Newsstand Age to end when 1955 when American News Company stopped being a national distributor. That's what put a lot of publishers out of business as they were publishing almost half of all comic books. A number of Golden Age publishers ceased publishing afterward, sometimes selling their titles to those that were willing to stick it out.

 

The 2nd Newsstand age would continue from there, we could put an end to the 2nd age when Marvel got out from Independent News and started publishing more books with Curtis (1969), but that really only affected 1 company (or 2 if you consider Marvel's eventual out selling DC comics), but I'd rather it continue on through as I don't think it affected the rest of the industry that much.

 

Eventually the Direct Market overtakes Newsstand Distribution in importance. Jim Shooter said this happened around the mid 80s. I would put GI Joe #1 as the last important newsstand comic, in part because it was advertised on TV and was a major starting point for a lot of comic readers. I don't recall there being a significant newsstand comic after that. Also in 1984 Charlton and Goldkey/Whitman ceased publishing on the newsstands & Harvey stopped a couple of years prior. Also, TMNT #1 happened in 1984 too.

 

 

[LetThereBeComics-migration]

It is a very clean approach to pick a single book. We all want that simple cutoff which can be recognized as the transition point. So I can understand why someone would pick something so different like TMNT #1.

 

But in building out that timeline of events brought me more comfort with the conclusion there was no single book which served as the catalyst leading to the Copper Age. It was not that cut-and-dry a period in comic history. And that's okay, because so much greatness occurred during that time.

 

It's definitely a "grey area". Much like Bronze; is it GL#76, Conan #1, ASM 121/122?

 

If you have to pick one, I do like TMNT #1 as the start (if I have to pick a book). It falls within the generally accepted time frame.

 

Nobody disputes that it is a "true key". It ushered in the the Independent books (Cerebus #1 was earlier, but definitely a Bronze book).

 

Chronologically, I might consider Wolverine mini #1. It is a couple of years prior to TMNT #1 and definitely a copper book. What is the 1st key which occurs chronologically that people would call copper age? I might go with Amazing Spider-man #200, as it is January 1980, and makes an easy time to start it.

 

Do people really consider ASM #200 a key?

 

Sure, in the same sense that Amazing Spider-man #100 and #150 is a key, Avengers #100, Iron Man #100, Daredevil #100, Batman #100, #200, & #300.

 

You are very generous with your definition of "key". DD # 100 and ASM # 150 are keys?

[VintageComics]

I've always believed "ages" should be defined by comic book distribution. Mainly because the distribution method (and major changes) affect what gets published in both format and content.

 

Newsstand Age would be the first regularly published News stand comic (I always considered this to be The Comics Monthly, but others go much later). I would would make the first Newsstand Age to end when 1955 when American News Company stopped being a national distributor. That's what put a lot of publishers out of business as they were publishing almost half of all comic books. A number of Golden Age publishers ceased publishing afterward, sometimes selling their titles to those that were willing to stick it out.

 

The 2nd Newsstand age would continue from there, we could put an end to the 2nd age when Marvel got out from Independent News and started publishing more books with Curtis (1969), but that really only affected 1 company (or 2 if you consider Marvel's eventual out selling DC comics), but I'd rather it continue on through as I don't think it affected the rest of the industry that much.

 

Eventually the Direct Market overtakes Newsstand Distribution in importance. Jim Shooter said this happened around the mid 80s. I would put GI Joe #1 as the last important newsstand comic, in part because it was advertised on TV and was a major starting point for a lot of comic readers. I don't recall there being a significant newsstand comic after that. Also in 1984 Charlton and Goldkey/Whitman ceased publishing on the newsstands & Harvey stopped a couple of years prior. Also, TMNT #1 happened in 1984 too.

 

 

There are many factors that people use to try to create "age cut-offs" but ultimately, I've always considered it related to story telling although the distribution perspective is an interesting one.

 

It's also very plausible that the story telling and distribution were related to each other - for example, it definitely affected Marvel's output as they went from less bi-monthly titles to more titles post 1968.

 

For that reason I've also always believed that there is no definite "cut-off point" to an era mainly because story writers were not trying to create an age or an era. They were just naturally evolving their story telling as they progressed as creators and as their characters matured. It was the readers that decided to create the eras after the fact.

 

Nobody sat up in their beds on rainy evening after reading and proclaimed "Hey, I think the Bronze Age just started officially now the Gwen Stacey is dead!"

 

I think that there was a transitional period for every era, and for the Bronze Age it seemed to be somewhere between 1968/9, where things started to change (including distributorship and story telling) and 1974 for me.