Could John Byrne make a comeback with the right inker?

[Koa]

I suspect a thread like this gets started because someone is a fan of John Byrne (or a shill for him) and wants to toss around ideas that could get him more work in the industry.

DG

 

 

The idea that a discussion thread by an anonymous poster could sway a company to hire any artist is asinine.

 

A couple of things led to the creation of the thread and none of them had anything to do with being a shill for John Byrne or getting him more work. In fact i suspected that were John made aware of this thread by one of his followers he'd probably find it insulting. John draws how he draws, this is just a what if scenario.

Over in the original art section of this site i started a thread asking which artists best represented the last 5 or so years of comic book art. The thread lead to discussion about various decades and the artists who had the most commercial impact and influence. Well, long story short the most prominent artist of today seemed to be Jim lee. Well he's been king for a long time it seems. there was another thread about jerry ordway not getting work where some felt comics discriminated against older pros. Well, Jim lee is has been king of the mountain for over 20 years so the logic doesn't seem right to me. I think it has more to do with the artists work being out of sync, or dated to the current audience.

 

i picked John byrne because I think he's a good example of that.He is a very talented artist, but his style has becomes dated. He does have talent though and I think with some modifications or updates to his style if he couldn't capture the attention of a new generation. Maybe not, who knows, it's just a topic for those of us who enjoy this sort of thing. This thread could have easily been about Mike Zeck, Simon bisely or a dozen other once popular artists whose work has degraded and audience has eroded over the years. That's why i started this thread.

 

 

There's been some discussion on here that Jim Lee is the only artist that, if he takes over a book for one of the Big Two, sales would drastically go up.

Personally, I don't think he's the only one. I think if McFarlane ever decided to do a book for the Big Two, you'd see the same result.

He's also someone from 20 years ago.

 

Maybe the difference between those two guys and Byrne, is that Byrne hit his stride (and height of popularity) about 10 years earlier than them. HIS core audience is in their 40's, 50's and 60's now and are much less likely to buy anything new.

McFarlane and Lee's core audience would still be in that 30 to 40 year old range.

 

 

 

Agreed. I think there are a number of artists who can still move sales under the right circumstances. Not always right off the bat, but with a nice monthly run of quality work they'd generate excitement again and lead to more fan attention.

 

Mcfarlane on Spdier-man is a no brainer just because of the legacy there. His work still looks pretty contemporary in part because his style fits modern coloring very well. He has been away from monthly comics for a long time and even though he had a nice run with spidey he didn't saturate the market with his art. he left his fans wanting more. Todd has the ability to promote himself as well as anyone and get word out to fans who left comics when he did.

 

I don't think age has a factor when it comes to working that hits a chord with fans. I think it's much more the individual artists ability to adapt and change while keeping the core of what worked intact. Frank Miller also hit his stride around the time Byrne did and political polarization aside, he's managed to re-invent his work and generating new fans through to today.

 

Sometimes the times change to suit an artists style as well. i think John Romita Sr. with the right story could set comics on fire with another Spider-man run. Jim Steranko could have made a major comeback around the time planetary was coming out had he gotten the opportunity. With the right story he could still do that.

I agree,and I would love Stan Lee to get together with Steve Ditko and do a final last Spider-Man story together.

 

Absolutely! It's actually mind boggling that more of these type of projects aren't put together as the greats get up in age. Marvel should do anything they can to bring steve back into the fold along with many other legends, same with DC. Special projects, whatever it takes. I loved that joe Kubert began getting more high profile work in the last 8-10 years. I still have my copy of Sgt:rock between hell and a hard place which I think is a masterclass is visual storytelling by Kubert, the way he moved the viewer in and out of the page, even his color choices. Just masterful as was his farewell to Sgt rock, the prophecy.

 

I loved that Neal Adams did Batman oddessy, which i thought had fantastic art. I think he got screwed on the inks With his first X-men stuff but I'm glad these stories are being put out because his career was cut short in the 70's.

[fastballspecial]

Perez and Starlin really never left just took breaks.

 

I never read any of Starlins 70s stuff till I read Breed from Image.

 

Perez's talent is still there just not his speed.

 

In essence anymore several artists can look great if they have time. Most cant or wont do monthly books anymore because it takes them more time. I think all these guys can shine again doing annuals and one shots.

 

Id buy any Perez, Starlin or Neal Adams annual or one shot. Good inker or not.

 

I think Bryne would be the same way give him time and he can produce wonders again I just dont think montly books are for them anymore without more time or help.

 

Considering that Byrne's output has been 3-5 pages per day for nearly 40 years I don't think having more time would make a difference.

 

Sure it would considering all the short cuts he has learned/taken over the years.

 

[fastballspecial]

Perez and Starlin really never left just took breaks.

 

I never read any of Starlins 70s stuff till I read Breed from Image.

 

Perez's talent is still there just not his speed.

 

In essence anymore several artists can look great if they have time. Most cant or wont do monthly books anymore because it takes them more time. I think all these guys can shine again doing annuals and one shots.

 

Id buy any Perez, Starlin or Neal Adams annual or one shot. Good inker or not.

 

I think Bryne would be the same way give him time and he can produce wonders again I just dont think montly books are for them anymore without more time or help.

 

Just a quick note: Breed is from the 80's. It was originally published by Malibu.

 

Yes, Starlin was before my time so when I read Breed I never knew he could draw at that point. Then I went back and read his 70s stuff.

 

[sakaridis]

Perez and Starlin really never left just took breaks.

 

I never read any of Starlins 70s stuff till I read Breed from Image.

 

Perez's talent is still there just not his speed.

 

In essence anymore several artists can look great if they have time. Most cant or wont do monthly books anymore because it takes them more time. I think all these guys can shine again doing annuals and one shots.

 

Id buy any Perez, Starlin or Neal Adams annual or one shot. Good inker or not.

 

I think Bryne would be the same way give him time and he can produce wonders again I just dont think montly books are for them anymore without more time or help.

 

Just a quick note: Breed is from the 80's. It was originally published by Malibu.

 

Yes, Starlin was before my time so when I read Breed I never knew he could draw at that point. Then I went back and read his 70s stuff.

A minor correction: I'm pretty certain that Breed was published in the mid-90s.

[Dale Roberts]

John get's a lot of flack for his modern but he had such an impact over the years that i can't help but wonder, if he worked with Danny Miki or Tim Townsend, an inker who understood the modern look of comics if he couldn't make a comeback among fans.

 

I think part of it is just the volume of work he does, when he was on wonder woman he said he was drawing and lettering 5 pages a day and in my opinion, that's probably why his worked has suffered in quality.

 

So, what do you guys think?

 

Are there any other classic artists that could make a comeback with a good modern inker or change in style?

 

 

I don't necessarily think it is a question of inker. I think artists discover short cuts and styles evolve because of this. It has happened with Neal Adams and certainly Byrne and Starlin. They find something that helps them speed the process along, and see something they like in it, and stick with that. Remember artists still get paid by the amount of pages they produce. If you can draw 1 page a day in 1 style, or 3 pages a day in another style, they probably are going to go with the quicker method.

 

It seems to me that Adams has gone from a realistic style of drawing, to trying to be more dynamic (seems to have happened during the continuiity days). I think he is still pretty good, but not what he used to be (most of us are in that boat). Byrne's work tho looks like a parody of his previous work. Starlin seems like he is just rushing through stuff. Still decent, but without the detail that he once had.

 

Or maybe it is just the inker....

 

Would love to see Starlin reunited with Leialoha, Byrne with Austin, Adams inked by Giordano(unfortunately this one can't happen), but maybe Tom Palmer could fill in. I would love to see a Bob Layton return as well. Always one of my favorites and very under-rated in my opinion.

[Logan510]

Perez and Starlin really never left just took breaks.

 

I never read any of Starlins 70s stuff till I read Breed from Image.

 

Perez's talent is still there just not his speed.

 

In essence anymore several artists can look great if they have time. Most cant or wont do monthly books anymore because it takes them more time. I think all these guys can shine again doing annuals and one shots.

 

Id buy any Perez, Starlin or Neal Adams annual or one shot. Good inker or not.

 

I think Bryne would be the same way give him time and he can produce wonders again I just dont think montly books are for them anymore without more time or help.

 

Considering that Byrne's output has been 3-5 pages per day for nearly 40 years I don't think having more time would make a difference.

 

Sure it would considering all the short cuts he has learned/taken over the years.

 

Having "more time" would just mean he would produce more pages. He has often said " my speed is my speed". He tells the story of how when he was on X-MEN and was drawing 3 pages a day, Shooter asked him to try drawing only two pages a day to see what effect it would have on the work. The only affect it had was he ended his work day 2 1/2 hours earlier as that was the length of time he spent per page at the time.

[jjonahjameson1]

John get's a lot of flack for his modern but he had such an impact over the years that i can't help but wonder, if he worked with Danny Miki or Tim Townsend, an inker who understood the modern look of comics if he couldn't make a comeback among fans.

 

I think part of it is just the volume of work he does, when he was on wonder woman he said he was drawing and lettering 5 pages a day and in my opinion, that's probably why his worked has suffered in quality.

 

So, what do you guys think?

 

Are there any other classic artists that could make a comeback with a good modern inker or change in style?

It`s really more about the main character one gets to draw then the inker.

An example is put John Byrne on Batman or X-Men and we would see a renewed popular interest. It`s really the character who can make or break most of these artists. When did McFarlane and Jim Lee get popular?

When Marvel allowed them to draw Spider-Man and X-Men.

So in conclusion getting to draw a top comic book character is more important than teaming up with a top inker to be popular with today`s comic book buyers.

 

I disagree with this. JRJR has gotten a lot of for his work on Avengers. I think it is poor coloring that is to blame. His work on Spider-Man in the 80s and even his start up again with JMS was pretty solid. But go look at who was coloring his work...

 

I really like Romita Jr's work, but I think it has felt very 'rushed' over the past 5 years. I suspect it may have had a lot to do with his heavy workload of two titles per month, hundreds of drawings for Kick-@$$, and basically not having enough time to do finish pencils.

[Dale Roberts]

John get's a lot of flack for his modern but he had such an impact over the years that i can't help but wonder, if he worked with Danny Miki or Tim Townsend, an inker who understood the modern look of comics if he couldn't make a comeback among fans.

 

I think part of it is just the volume of work he does, when he was on wonder woman he said he was drawing and lettering 5 pages a day and in my opinion, that's probably why his worked has suffered in quality.

 

So, what do you guys think?

 

Are there any other classic artists that could make a comeback with a good modern inker or change in style?

It`s really more about the main character one gets to draw then the inker.

An example is put John Byrne on Batman or X-Men and we would see a renewed popular interest. It`s really the character who can make or break most of these artists. When did McFarlane and Jim Lee get popular?

When Marvel allowed them to draw Spider-Man and X-Men.

So in conclusion getting to draw a top comic book character is more important than teaming up with a top inker to be popular with today`s comic book buyers.

 

I disagree with this. JRJR has gotten a lot of for his work on Avengers. I think it is poor coloring that is to blame. His work on Spider-Man in the 80s and even his start up again with JMS was pretty solid. But go look at who was coloring his work...

 

I really like Romita Jr's work, but I think it has felt very 'rushed' over the past 5 years. I suspect it may have had a lot to do with his heavy workload of two titles per month, hundreds of drawings for Kick-@$$, and basically not having enough time to do finish pencils.

 

I love JRJRs anatomical work, but don't care for the "scratchy" look of his pencils. I would love to see his dad as his regular inker. I have always thought that Romita Sr. was one of the best inker's out there. His work with Gil Kane was fantastic.

 

Basically anything to smooth out the scratchy ragged corners would be super, but maybe he does that to be distinquished from his father.

[DeliBebek]

I don't recall where I read it, but as I recall, Byrne once mentioned that part of his focus as he matured as an illustrator was developing ways to get the same effect with less ink on the page. This connects perfectly to why most of us see his work looks looser and quicker as the years go by. The difference in tightness between the commissions he does compared to the printed comics pages probably means he doesn't hold himself to the same drawing speed that he's accustomed to when drawing comics stories.

 

I'm intrigued daily by Walt Simonson's Facebook feed, where he posts numerous sketches and preliminary drawings for his current work, in addition to finished pieces for Hero Initiative, which are beautiful. He's an old-schooler who's still turning out great work on modern jobs.

[Logan510]

I don't recall where I read it, but as I recall, Byrne once mentioned that part of his focus as he matured as an illustrator was developing ways to get the same effect with less ink on the page. This connects perfectly to why most of us see his work looks looser and quicker as the years go by. The difference in tightness between the commissions he does compared to the printed comics pages probably means he doesn't hold himself to the same drawing speed that he's accustomed to when drawing comics stories.

 

I'm intrigued daily by Walt Simonson's Facebook feed, where he posts numerous sketches and preliminary drawings for his current work, in addition to finished pieces for Hero Initiative, which are beautiful. He's an old-schooler who's still turning out great work on modern jobs.

 

 

In his early years Byrne was trying to be like Neal Adams. In recent years he's been trying to be more like Joe Kubert.

[Prince Namor]

I don't recall where I read it, but as I recall, Byrne once mentioned that part of his focus as he matured as an illustrator was developing ways to get the same effect with less ink on the page. This connects perfectly to why most of us see his work looks looser and quicker as the years go by. The difference in tightness between the commissions he does compared to the printed comics pages probably means he doesn't hold himself to the same drawing speed that he's accustomed to when drawing comics stories.

 

I'm intrigued daily by Walt Simonson's Facebook feed, where he posts numerous sketches and preliminary drawings for his current work, in addition to finished pieces for Hero Initiative, which are beautiful. He's an old-schooler who's still turning out great work on modern jobs.

 

When was the last time Simonson did a monthly book?

If you're going to use his pinup and cover work as comparison, then you'd have to use JB's commission work to go by. What do you think?

 

 

[Koa]

I don't recall where I read it, but as I recall, Byrne once mentioned that part of his focus as he matured as an illustrator was developing ways to get the same effect with less ink on the page. This connects perfectly to why most of us see his work looks looser and quicker as the years go by. The difference in tightness between the commissions he does compared to the printed comics pages probably means he doesn't hold himself to the same drawing speed that he's accustomed to when drawing comics stories.

 

I'm intrigued daily by Walt Simonson's Facebook feed, where he posts numerous sketches and preliminary drawings for his current work, in addition to finished pieces for Hero Initiative, which are beautiful. He's an old-schooler who's still turning out great work on modern jobs.

 

That's odd because his work uses a lot more line density (some might call it detail) now than he ever did on Uncanny X-men.

[Koa]

John get's a lot of flack for his modern but he had such an impact over the years that i can't help but wonder, if he worked with Danny Miki or Tim Townsend, an inker who understood the modern look of comics if he couldn't make a comeback among fans.

 

I think part of it is just the volume of work he does, when he was on wonder woman he said he was drawing and lettering 5 pages a day and in my opinion, that's probably why his worked has suffered in quality.

 

So, what do you guys think?

 

Are there any other classic artists that could make a comeback with a good modern inker or change in style?

It`s really more about the main character one gets to draw then the inker.

An example is put John Byrne on Batman or X-Men and we would see a renewed popular interest. It`s really the character who can make or break most of these artists. When did McFarlane and Jim Lee get popular?

When Marvel allowed them to draw Spider-Man and X-Men.

So in conclusion getting to draw a top comic book character is more important than teaming up with a top inker to be popular with today`s comic book buyers.

 

I disagree with this. JRJR has gotten a lot of for his work on Avengers. I think it is poor coloring that is to blame. His work on Spider-Man in the 80s and even his start up again with JMS was pretty solid. But go look at who was coloring his work...

 

I really like Romita Jr's work, but I think it has felt very 'rushed' over the past 5 years. I suspect it may have had a lot to do with his heavy workload of two titles per month, hundreds of drawings for Kick-@$$, and basically not having enough time to do finish pencils.

 

 

The quality of JR/JR's work depends on the inker and the changes in his work have come with the inkers. John's pencils really suit a heavy handed inker because they are very structural. Same with Greg Capullo. Everything is there but they leave a lot open for an inker to impose his skills. Greg Capullo is very open about this. He has said in interviews that he indicates where crosshatching should be (for example) with a few line but fully expects that the inker to go in there and apply his best texture work or crosshatching, etc because the tools of an inker are more suited to complete that job. I think John's work is like that as well and if the inker makes the wrong choices it fails. John Romita Jr's storytelling and picture composition are usually very solid.

 

Some commented about not liking JRJR's scratchy pencils, what you are seeing in the inkers choices there.

 

 

[DeliBebek]

I don't recall where I read it, but as I recall, Byrne once mentioned that part of his focus as he matured as an illustrator was developing ways to get the same effect with less ink on the page. This connects perfectly to why most of us see his work looks looser and quicker as the years go by. The difference in tightness between the commissions he does compared to the printed comics pages probably means he doesn't hold himself to the same drawing speed that he's accustomed to when drawing comics stories.

 

I'm intrigued daily by Walt Simonson's Facebook feed, where he posts numerous sketches and preliminary drawings for his current work, in addition to finished pieces for Hero Initiative, which are beautiful. He's an old-schooler who's still turning out great work on modern jobs.

 

When was the last time Simonson did a monthly book?

Simonson is currently doing one - Indestructible Hulk, starting with issue 4 - at least for a story arc. He did a six-issue story arc with Bendis on Avengers 25-30 last year.

 

I wasn't trying to compare Simonson and Byrne if it sounded like that. I am in awe of how good Byrne's commissions look, and I was trying to point out that he seems to spend more time on them than he would on a regular comic page, therefore getting the feel that most of his fans enjoyed about his "prime" work. At least at the time that I recall the quote, (mid '90s, maybe) Byrne was avoiding cross-hatching almost completely, which had been a hallmark of his inking back in the '80s.

 

That's odd because his work uses a lot more line density (some might call it detail) now than he ever did on Uncanny X-men.

Without going back to the books, I don't think Byrne inked any of his work on Uncanny X-Men, so he wasn't in control of the amount of ink on the page. If someone knows of a quote similar to what I have attempted to paraphrase, please share it. I know the words I used weren't the exact words Byrne used.

[Koa]

John get's a lot of flack for his modern but he had such an impact over the years that i can't help but wonder, if he worked with Danny Miki or Tim Townsend, an inker who understood the modern look of comics if he couldn't make a comeback among fans.

 

I think part of it is just the volume of work he does, when he was on wonder woman he said he was drawing and lettering 5 pages a day and in my opinion, that's probably why his worked has suffered in quality.

 

So, what do you guys think?

 

Are there any other classic artists that could make a comeback with a good modern inker or change in style?

 

 

I don't necessarily think it is a question of inker. I think artists discover short cuts and styles evolve because of this. It has happened with Neal Adams and certainly Byrne and Starlin. They find something that helps them speed the process along, and see something they like in it, and stick with that. Remember artists still get paid by the amount of pages they produce. If you can draw 1 page a day in 1 style, or 3 pages a day in another style, they probably are going to go with the quicker method.

 

It seems to me that Adams has gone from a realistic style of drawing, to trying to be more dynamic (seems to have happened during the continuiity days). I think he is still pretty good, but not what he used to be (most of us are in that boat). Byrne's work tho looks like a parody of his previous work. Starlin seems like he is just rushing through stuff. Still decent, but without the detail that he once had.

 

Or maybe it is just the inker....

 

Would love to see Starlin reunited with Leialoha, Byrne with Austin, Adams inked by Giordano(unfortunately this one can't happen), but maybe Tom Palmer could fill in. I would love to see a Bob Layton return as well. Always one of my favorites and very under-rated in my opinion.

 

Inkers are absolutely important to the look of the work. They can choose to 'fix' problem areas or not, they control the line weights and the final appearance of texture and lighting. Even over tight pencils, like say Jim lee. You or I could trace Jim's work line for line and it's not going to have the look Scott Williams gives it. Just the changing of tool an inker uses can alter the look of the work.

 

let's talk Neal Adams. I love his 'newer' style. i don't think it's the result of tricks to work faster. During his days as a monthly artist, as prolific as Neal was he worked much faster than the 2 years he put into his recent batman stuff. I'd bet he used photo reference on this project as well, because it's how neal works. His style was just influenced by different sources over the years. Another major effect nobody talks about are the tools used to ink. When he inked himself on Odyssey he almost certainly used marker brushes and pigma pens. I know markers are the wave of the future, but it's effecting the finished look of many artists work some for good, most for bad. Neal is an artist whose work demands traditional pen and brush. It suffers without it. I'm sure using markers save a lot of time and to neal the loss in quality is acceptable.

 

 

John Byrne is using marker as well and there has been a big quality shift in his inks during that time. That doesn't explain the tangent filled compositions but it does explain the changes in line quality

 

[Logan510]

John get's a lot of flack for his modern but he had such an impact over the years that i can't help but wonder, if he worked with Danny Miki or Tim Townsend, an inker who understood the modern look of comics if he couldn't make a comeback among fans.

 

I think part of it is just the volume of work he does, when he was on wonder woman he said he was drawing and lettering 5 pages a day and in my opinion, that's probably why his worked has suffered in quality.

 

So, what do you guys think?

 

Are there any other classic artists that could make a comeback with a good modern inker or change in style?

 

 

I don't necessarily think it is a question of inker. I think artists discover short cuts and styles evolve because of this. It has happened with Neal Adams and certainly Byrne and Starlin. They find something that helps them speed the process along, and see something they like in it, and stick with that. Remember artists still get paid by the amount of pages they produce. If you can draw 1 page a day in 1 style, or 3 pages a day in another style, they probably are going to go with the quicker method.

 

It seems to me that Adams has gone from a realistic style of drawing, to trying to be more dynamic (seems to have happened during the continuiity days). I think he is still pretty good, but not what he used to be (most of us are in that boat). Byrne's work tho looks like a parody of his previous work. Starlin seems like he is just rushing through stuff. Still decent, but without the detail that he once had.

 

Or maybe it is just the inker....

 

Would love to see Starlin reunited with Leialoha, Byrne with Austin, Adams inked by Giordano(unfortunately this one can't happen), but maybe Tom Palmer could fill in. I would love to see a Bob Layton return as well. Always one of my favorites and very under-rated in my opinion.

 

Inkers are absolutely important to the look of the work. They can choose to 'fix' problem areas or not, they control the line weights and the final appearance of texture and lighting. Even over tight pencils, like say Jim lee. You or I could trace Jim's work line for line and it's not going to have the look Scott Williams gives it. Just the changing of tool an inker uses can alter the look of the work.

 

let's talk Neal Adams. I love his 'newer' style. i don't think it's the result of tricks to work faster. During his days as a monthly artist, as prolific as Neal was he worked much faster than the 2 years he put into his recent batman stuff. I'd bet he used photo reference on this project as well, because it's how neal works. His style was just influenced by different sources over the years. Another major effect nobody talks about are the tools used to ink. When he inked himself on Odyssey he almost certainly used marker brushes and pigma pens. I know markers are the wave of the future, but it's effecting the finished look of many artists work some for good, most for bad. Neal is an artist whose work demands traditional pen and brush. It suffers without it. I'm sure using markers save a lot of time and to neal the loss in quality is acceptable.

 

 

John Byrne is using marker as well and there has been a big quality shift in his inks during that time. That doesn't explain the tangent filled compositions but it does explain the changes in line quality

 

 

Are you Erik Larsen?

[Dale Roberts]

John get's a lot of flack for his modern but he had such an impact over the years that i can't help but wonder, if he worked with Danny Miki or Tim Townsend, an inker who understood the modern look of comics if he couldn't make a comeback among fans.

 

I think part of it is just the volume of work he does, when he was on wonder woman he said he was drawing and lettering 5 pages a day and in my opinion, that's probably why his worked has suffered in quality.

 

So, what do you guys think?

 

Are there any other classic artists that could make a comeback with a good modern inker or change in style?

 

 

I don't necessarily think it is a question of inker. I think artists discover short cuts and styles evolve because of this. It has happened with Neal Adams and certainly Byrne and Starlin. They find something that helps them speed the process along, and see something they like in it, and stick with that. Remember artists still get paid by the amount of pages they produce. If you can draw 1 page a day in 1 style, or 3 pages a day in another style, they probably are going to go with the quicker method.

 

It seems to me that Adams has gone from a realistic style of drawing, to trying to be more dynamic (seems to have happened during the continuiity days). I think he is still pretty good, but not what he used to be (most of us are in that boat). Byrne's work tho looks like a parody of his previous work. Starlin seems like he is just rushing through stuff. Still decent, but without the detail that he once had.

 

Or maybe it is just the inker....

 

Would love to see Starlin reunited with Leialoha, Byrne with Austin, Adams inked by Giordano(unfortunately this one can't happen), but maybe Tom Palmer could fill in. I would love to see a Bob Layton return as well. Always one of my favorites and very under-rated in my opinion.

 

Inkers are absolutely important to the look of the work. They can choose to 'fix' problem areas or not, they control the line weights and the final appearance of texture and lighting. Even over tight pencils, like say Jim lee. You or I could trace Jim's work line for line and it's not going to have the look Scott Williams gives it. Just the changing of tool an inker uses can alter the look of the work.

 

let's talk Neal Adams. I love his 'newer' style. i don't think it's the result of tricks to work faster. During his days as a monthly artist, as prolific as Neal was he worked much faster than the 2 years he put into his recent batman stuff. I'd bet he used photo reference on this project as well, because it's how neal works. His style was just influenced by different sources over the years. Another major effect nobody talks about are the tools used to ink. When he inked himself on Odyssey he almost certainly used marker brushes and pigma pens. I know markers are the wave of the future, but it's effecting the finished look of many artists work some for good, most for bad. Neal is an artist whose work demands traditional pen and brush. It suffers without it. I'm sure using markers save a lot of time and to neal the loss in quality is acceptable.

 

 

John Byrne is using marker as well and there has been a big quality shift in his inks during that time. That doesn't explain the tangent filled compositions but it does explain the changes in line quality

 

Nobody said the inker isn't important. Thats not what this thread is about. No inker is going to make a bad artist look good. An inker can clean up some stuff, but he can't clean up a guy who is not taking the time to do good work.

 

Neal has always said that he is his own favorite inker. Well, his work has always been best when someone else was inking him (at least in my opinion). Giordano and Palmer were great on Adams.

[Logan510]

John get's a lot of flack for his modern but he had such an impact over the years that i can't help but wonder, if he worked with Danny Miki or Tim Townsend, an inker who understood the modern look of comics if he couldn't make a comeback among fans.

 

I think part of it is just the volume of work he does, when he was on wonder woman he said he was drawing and lettering 5 pages a day and in my opinion, that's probably why his worked has suffered in quality.

 

So, what do you guys think?

 

Are there any other classic artists that could make a comeback with a good modern inker or change in style?

 

 

I don't necessarily think it is a question of inker. I think artists discover short cuts and styles evolve because of this. It has happened with Neal Adams and certainly Byrne and Starlin. They find something that helps them speed the process along, and see something they like in it, and stick with that. Remember artists still get paid by the amount of pages they produce. If you can draw 1 page a day in 1 style, or 3 pages a day in another style, they probably are going to go with the quicker method.

 

It seems to me that Adams has gone from a realistic style of drawing, to trying to be more dynamic (seems to have happened during the continuiity days). I think he is still pretty good, but not what he used to be (most of us are in that boat). Byrne's work tho looks like a parody of his previous work. Starlin seems like he is just rushing through stuff. Still decent, but without the detail that he once had.

 

Or maybe it is just the inker....

 

Would love to see Starlin reunited with Leialoha, Byrne with Austin, Adams inked by Giordano(unfortunately this one can't happen), but maybe Tom Palmer could fill in. I would love to see a Bob Layton return as well. Always one of my favorites and very under-rated in my opinion.

 

Inkers are absolutely important to the look of the work. They can choose to 'fix' problem areas or not, they control the line weights and the final appearance of texture and lighting. Even over tight pencils, like say Jim lee. You or I could trace Jim's work line for line and it's not going to have the look Scott Williams gives it. Just the changing of tool an inker uses can alter the look of the work.

 

let's talk Neal Adams. I love his 'newer' style. i don't think it's the result of tricks to work faster. During his days as a monthly artist, as prolific as Neal was he worked much faster than the 2 years he put into his recent batman stuff. I'd bet he used photo reference on this project as well, because it's how neal works. His style was just influenced by different sources over the years. Another major effect nobody talks about are the tools used to ink. When he inked himself on Odyssey he almost certainly used marker brushes and pigma pens. I know markers are the wave of the future, but it's effecting the finished look of many artists work some for good, most for bad. Neal is an artist whose work demands traditional pen and brush. It suffers without it. I'm sure using markers save a lot of time and to neal the loss in quality is acceptable.

 

 

John Byrne is using marker as well and there has been a big quality shift in his inks during that time. That doesn't explain the tangent filled compositions but it does explain the changes in line quality

 

Nobody said the inker isn't important. Thats not what this thread is about. No inker is going to make a bad artist look good. An inker can clean up some stuff, but he can't clean up a guy who is not taking the time to do good work.

 

Neal has always said that he is his own favorite inker. Well, his work has always been best when someone else was inking him (at least in my opinion). Giordano and Palmer were great on Adams.

 

A very good inker can make a bad artist look good. You would be surprised ( maybe not ) how much some inkers change even if the pencils are very good.

[Prince Namor]

Tom Palmer was great.

[Koa]

John get's a lot of flack for his modern but he had such an impact over the years that i can't help but wonder, if he worked with Danny Miki or Tim Townsend, an inker who understood the modern look of comics if he couldn't make a comeback among fans.

 

I think part of it is just the volume of work he does, when he was on wonder woman he said he was drawing and lettering 5 pages a day and in my opinion, that's probably why his worked has suffered in quality.

 

So, what do you guys think?

 

Are there any other classic artists that could make a comeback with a good modern inker or change in style?

 

 

I don't necessarily think it is a question of inker. I think artists discover short cuts and styles evolve because of this. It has happened with Neal Adams and certainly Byrne and Starlin. They find something that helps them speed the process along, and see something they like in it, and stick with that. Remember artists still get paid by the amount of pages they produce. If you can draw 1 page a day in 1 style, or 3 pages a day in another style, they probably are going to go with the quicker method.

 

It seems to me that Adams has gone from a realistic style of drawing, to trying to be more dynamic (seems to have happened during the continuiity days). I think he is still pretty good, but not what he used to be (most of us are in that boat). Byrne's work tho looks like a parody of his previous work. Starlin seems like he is just rushing through stuff. Still decent, but without the detail that he once had.

 

Or maybe it is just the inker....

 

Would love to see Starlin reunited with Leialoha, Byrne with Austin, Adams inked by Giordano(unfortunately this one can't happen), but maybe Tom Palmer could fill in. I would love to see a Bob Layton return as well. Always one of my favorites and very under-rated in my opinion.

 

Inkers are absolutely important to the look of the work. They can choose to 'fix' problem areas or not, they control the line weights and the final appearance of texture and lighting. Even over tight pencils, like say Jim lee. You or I could trace Jim's work line for line and it's not going to have the look Scott Williams gives it. Just the changing of tool an inker uses can alter the look of the work.

 

let's talk Neal Adams. I love his 'newer' style. i don't think it's the result of tricks to work faster. During his days as a monthly artist, as prolific as Neal was he worked much faster than the 2 years he put into his recent batman stuff. I'd bet he used photo reference on this project as well, because it's how neal works. His style was just influenced by different sources over the years. Another major effect nobody talks about are the tools used to ink. When he inked himself on Odyssey he almost certainly used marker brushes and pigma pens. I know markers are the wave of the future, but it's effecting the finished look of many artists work some for good, most for bad. Neal is an artist whose work demands traditional pen and brush. It suffers without it. I'm sure using markers save a lot of time and to neal the loss in quality is acceptable.

 

 

John Byrne is using marker as well and there has been a big quality shift in his inks during that time. That doesn't explain the tangent filled compositions but it does explain the changes in line quality

 

 

Are you Erik Larsen?

 

HA-HA! No i'm just a big fan of the art form.

 

Nobody said the inker isn't important. Thats not what this thread is about. No inker is going to make a bad artist look good. An inker can clean up some stuff, but he can't clean up a guy who is not taking the time to do good work.

 

Neal has always said that he is his own favorite inker. Well, his work has always been best when someone else was inking him (at least in my opinion). Giordano and Palmer were great on Adams.

Dale, an great ink artist can make work look professional. I own some stuff Bill Sienkiewciz inked over a lesser artist and he basically redrew it, moving limbs, cutting details and adding others. He makes lesser skilled artists look better all the time.

 

Even with great artists, inkers can take such liberties as to cover their styles. There is a great page by BWS out there inked by neal Adams that looks nothing like BWS. Dale keowns pencils during the end run of his hulk were heavily crosshatched like his pitt work and Mark Farmers inking choices hid that.

 

 

Chuck Gower- Tom Palmer is great. He's my favorite JR/Jr inker today. His inks are very distinctive over John.