What is the REAL 1st app. of Gambit?

[slym2none]

The annual is definitely a full appearance but # 266 was intended to introduce the character and is the first chronologically so that is the one that I would want personally. Most collectors, it seems agree with me.

 

What's it like to be so right?

 

 

It's great.

 

Seriously though, everyone's entitled to their opinion and it's cool that yours differs to mine. All your points are valid but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

You do realize all those details I posted proved creation-wise X-Men #266 is the 1st appearance, right?

 

But if you want to disagree with that because it is too much for you...

 

 

I dont think anyone can really argue about that, even without that information, if you just read both books you can tell 266 was " supposed " to come out first.

 

The question is, what do we go by? we need a set standard. So if " continuity" is the main deciding factor, I guess 1st appearances should be changing constantly?? Have a flashback? New 1st app. Yes that sounds absurd, but thats what we are doing here.

 

 

Release date? Cover app?

 

There just needs to be a set standard. This is something CGC should definitely be able to provide.

 

 

This wasn't a continuity issue, though. It was all due to mis-timing of the release of the books.

 

UXM was supposed to hit the stands first...

 

 

 

 

-slym (fixed "definitely" for you, too)

[Bosco685]

The annual is definitely a full appearance but # 266 was intended to introduce the character and is the first chronologically so that is the one that I would want personally. Most collectors, it seems agree with me.

 

What's it like to be so right?

 

 

It's great.

 

Seriously though, everyone's entitled to their opinion and it's cool that yours differs to mine. All your points are valid but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

You do realize all those details I posted proved creation-wise X-Men #266 is the 1st appearance, right?

 

But if you want to disagree with that because it is too much for you...

 

 

I dont think anyone can really argue about that, even without that information, if you just read both books you can tell 266 was " supposed " to come out first.

 

The question is, what do we go by? we need a set standard. So if " continuity" is the main deciding factor, I guess 1st appearances should be changing constantly?? Have a flashback? New 1st app. Yes that sounds absurd, but thats what we are doing here.

 

 

Release date? Cover app?

 

There just needs to be a set standard. This is something CGC should definatally be able to provide.

 

Like we see from the pictures, the books tell the story in the order it should have occurred. So that may be your biggest hurdle.

 

Events from X-Men 265-267 were already being referenced in the past to explain Ororo's situation. And even the stories when read in order (Gambit meets up with Ororo in X-Men #266, and then follows her back to the Xavier Mansion in X-Men Annual #14). So the slight production delay has them out of order by about a week or two.

 

I think the majority of the market will lean towards X-Men #266 because of the content flow.

[Silverdream]

The annual is definitely a full appearance but # 266 was intended to introduce the character and is the first chronologically so that is the one that I would want personally. Most collectors, it seems agree with me.

 

What's it like to be so right?

 

 

It's great.

 

Seriously though, everyone's entitled to their opinion and it's cool that yours differs to mine. All your points are valid but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

You do realize all those details I posted proved creation-wise X-Men #266 is the 1st appearance, right?

 

But if you want to disagree with that because it is too much for you...

 

 

I dont think anyone can really argue about that, even without that information, if you just read both books you can tell 266 was " supposed " to come out first.

 

The question is, what do we go by? we need a set standard. So if " continuity" is the main deciding factor, I guess 1st appearances should be changing constantly?? Have a flashback? New 1st app. Yes that sounds absurd, but thats what we are doing here.

 

 

Release date? Cover app?

 

There just needs to be a set standard. This is something CGC should definitely be able to provide.

 

 

This wasn't a continuity issue, though. It was all due to mis-timing of the release of the books.

 

UXM was supposed to hit the stands first...

 

 

 

 

-slym (fixed "definitely" for you, too)

 

I do understand what you are saying. The simple fact is, the annual was released first.

 

Think about it this way, I was reading all of the xmen books back in 1990. My introduction to Gambit was in the annual. That was the 1st time I ( or anyone reading xmen books back then) saw him. What else can you call that? " The accidental 1st appearance of Gambit" ? It is what it is.

 

I still Lean towards 266 being the book to collect. I dont think anything will change what the market is collecting. I do however think CGC needs to have a set, and unchanging standard in how they decide first appearances. Reguardless of shipping problems, a factory fire, slow artists.... If they go by date, the annual was first.

 

Im not saying they should go by date either... Im saying they need to have a set way to determine them, and stick to it.

 

1.) 1st app. in cameo

2.) 1st Full app.

3.) Early app.

 

Then define Cameo and stick to it.

 

 

[@Captain_Sawyer]

Dear jeebus why does this thread have more than 1 page? smh

[slym2none]

Dear jeebus why does this thread have more than 1 page? smh

 

Is something wrong with civil discourse about comics?

 

:shrug:

 

 

 

-slym

[Buzzetta]

X-Men 266

 

Only because I own a copy of that but not a single copy of Annual 14.

[gaz973]

The annual is definitely a full appearance but # 266 was intended to introduce the character and is the first chronologically so that is the one that I would want personally. Most collectors, it seems agree with me.

 

What's it like to be so right?

 

 

It's great.

 

Seriously though, everyone's entitled to their opinion and it's cool that yours differs to mine. All your points are valid but I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

You do realize all those details I posted proved creation-wise X-Men #266 is the 1st appearance, right?

 

But if you want to disagree with that because it is too much for you...

 

 

I dont think anyone can really argue about that, even without that information, if you just read both books you can tell 266 was " supposed " to come out first.

 

The question is, what do we go by? we need a set standard. So if " continuity" is the main deciding factor, I guess 1st appearances should be changing constantly?? Have a flashback? New 1st app. Yes that sounds absurd, but thats what we are doing here.

 

 

Release date? Cover app?

 

There just needs to be a set standard. This is something CGC should definitely be able to provide.

 

 

 

This wasn't a continuity issue, though. It was all due to mis-timing of the release of the books.

 

UXM was supposed to hit the stands first...

 

 

 

 

-slym (fixed "definitely" for you, too)

 

I do understand what you are saying. The simple fact is, the annual was released first.

 

Think about it this way, I was reading all of the xmen books back in 1990. My introduction to Gambit was in the annual. That was the 1st time I ( or anyone reading xmen books back then) saw him. What else can you call that? " The accidental 1st appearance of Gambit" ? It is what it is.

 

I still Lean towards 266 being the book to collect. I dont think anything will change what the market is collecting. I do however think CGC needs to have a set, and unchanging standard in how they decide first appearances. Reguardless of shipping problems, a factory fire, slow artists.... If they go by date, the annual was first.

 

Im not saying they should go by date either... Im saying they need to have a set way to determine them, and stick to it.

 

1.) 1st app. in cameo

2.) 1st Full app.

3.) Early app.

 

Then define Cameo and stick to it.

 

How about if in a case like this, CGC could label them as such

 

Annual - 1st appearance (by release date)

# 266 - 1st appearance (storywise)

 

..... or something like that?

 

I don't think it would make much difference in the desirability of either issue.

[Bosco685]

How about if in a case like this, CGC could label them as such

 

Annual - 1st appearance (by release date)

# 266 - 1st appearance (storywise)

 

..... or something like that?

 

I don't think it would make much difference in the desirability of either issue.

 

It's a good point, though X-Men #266 is pretty well established.

 

How does CGC handle the Goon appearances before Goon #1 (though I believe his content is a preview, while X-Men Ann #14 contains a stand-alone story)?

 

Maybe Conan #23 and #24 are more relevant, though the publication date was not the issue with these books.

 

 

 

Looks like Conan #23 is noted as her 1st appearance (she appears in a few panels), and Conan #24 is her 1st full appearance.

 

[carter3175]

Bosco let me HAVE your collection.

[Bosco685]

You'd be bored with my small batch of books, Chino.

 

But those two books aren't mine anyway. Just very nice examples pulled from the internets.

 

[Silverdream]

How about if in a case like this, CGC could label them as such

 

Annual - 1st appearance (by release date)

# 266 - 1st appearance (storywise)

 

..... or something like that?

 

I don't think it would make much difference in the desirability of either issue.

 

It's a good point, though X-Men #266 is pretty well established.

 

How does CGC handle the Goon appearances before Goon #1 (though I believe his content is a preview, while X-Men Ann #14 contains a stand-alone story)?

 

Maybe Conan #23 and #24 are more relevant, though the publication date was not the issue with these books.

 

 

 

Looks like Conan #23 is noted as her 1st appearance (she appears in a few panels), and Conan #24 is her 1st full appearance.

 

 

This is exactly what im talking about. Conan 24 has always been the more desired book. She is on the cover, and its a wonderful BWS cover. However 23 is her first app. It's not a cameo. But CGC still decided to put as much or more emphesis on 24 with a " 1st Full story" designation. It muddies the defintion even more. It's almost as if CGC is putting on the label..." Yeah, Yeah, 23 is her first app, but this is the book people pay money for"

 

By the standards they placed on the Red Sonja books, you would think the gambit books should be labeled the same way. Of course the difference is... the production issue.

[gaz973]

How about if in a case like this, CGC could label them as such

 

Annual - 1st appearance (by release date)

# 266 - 1st appearance (storywise)

 

..... or something like that?

 

I don't think it would make much difference in the desirability of either issue.

 

It's a good point, though X-Men #266 is pretty well established.

 

How does CGC handle the Goon appearances before Goon #1 (though I believe his content is a preview, while X-Men Ann #14 contains a stand-alone story)?

 

Maybe Conan #23 and #24 are more relevant, though the publication date was not the issue with these books.

 

 

 

Looks like Conan #23 is noted as her 1st appearance (she appears in a few panels), and Conan #24 is her 1st full appearance.

 

 

This is exactly what im talking about. Conan 24 has always been the more desired book. She is on the cover, and its a wonderful BWS cover. However 23 is her first app. It's not a cameo. But CGC still decided to put as much or more emphesis on 24 with a " 1st Full story" designation. It muddies the defintion even more. It's almost as if CGC is putting on the label..." Yeah, Yeah, 23 is her first app, but this is the book people pay money for"

 

By the standards they placed on the Red Sonja books, you would think the gambit books should be labeled the same way. Of course the difference is... the production issue.

 

The Gambit situation is different because # 266 is the first appearance chronologically as opposed to the Conan books or the 1st Wolverine where the lesser valued book is the first appearance chronologically.