Are Golden/Silver age books really safe investments??

[AGGIEZ]

Hello All,

 

I was wondering what your thoughts were on the true investing potential of golden and silver age books?

 

Obviously I feel that some books will continue to grow in value but im having some second thoughts on the smaller golden/silver age keys or minor keys. Will people who are being born in the 1990s and 2000s really care about these books when they get much older. I know many books for many collectors hold collectors value as well as sentimental value because they grew up with these books since they were kids, or they used to idolize superhero "XXXXX" etc.

 

Will the kids of today really care about the first appearances of figures like Ant man, plastic man , kingpin, atom man etc?

 

Hope to hear your input!

I think there will always be an audience, but I definitely think a shift to original art will happen. Especially as more and more artists shift to digital, I have a feeling OA will be the more desired collectible.

 

 

Completely disagree here. Most of the desirable OA is already well out of most people's disposable income, or even investment budget, range. Unless you're talking about the OA for some of the modern drek that is out now then that ship has sailed. I agree with an earlier poster...low grade Silver age first appearance books is where it's at...

 

Yes, I'm talking about modern OA drek, which a lot of people desire. A nice Jim Lee or Frank Miller page can command just as much as a page from one of the SA greats.

 

And to your point, is "desirable OA" just going to be so pricey that no one buys it? No. It will sell. Two final points:

 

A: There will always be dispensable incomes. If something goes to auction, it'll sell. OA is a different ballgame than comics.

 

B: Are all you old farts just going to be buried with your Kirby and Ditko pages, or are you going to let us whippersnappers buy them off you?

 

EDIT: GO STILLERS. Knew you had to be a stubborn yinzer to be making points like that

 

 

 

No doubt there is interest and significant value... But I thought we were talking "investment", ie appreciation. I still think the appreciation potential of low grade SA 1st app slabs is greater than that of OA...which is generally at more of a peak already in my opinion.

 

 

And PS, I'm a Texans fan and 37, which I don't consider old.... But I AM stubborn! ;^)

[Artboy99]

I know 173 is out of the question, as a boardie is a nut about like I am.

 

 

B: Are all you old farts just going to be buried with your Kirby and Ditko pages, or are you going to let us whippersnappers buy them off you?

 

The fact of the matter is, with most of the top OA collectors in their 40s and 50s (with some in their 30s and 60s), over the next few decades, virtually 100% of the OA out there will turn over at least once, including all the A+++ material in the "black hole" collections. Can't fight the cycle of aging. The question is, will there be enough cash to absorb this turnover at current market levels (or even higher), even spread out over the course of those decades? Personally, I think it's very unlikely that future generations will have both the nostalgia and spending power in sufficient numbers to make this happen (the same applies to high-end comics). But, that kind of long-term timeframe isn't really on anybody's mind at the moment, and isn't really relevant for people with much shorter time horizons.

 

I think many of the OA pieces will be inherited by children who may keep for sentimental reasons, most will sell and at a discount.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

The short answer is no, no comics are "safe" investments.

 

Yeah, just ask the guy who paid $91,500 for the Avengers #4 9.6 Ohio pedigree in 2011 and resold it for $29,750 this year. A 71% loss after commissions in 2 years. Blue chip, investment grade key issue. Yep, sounds like a safe investment to me! I know some people doubt the veracity of that initial sale, but there have been other sales in the $50Ks and $60Ks in any case, so we're talking at least a 40+% loss for that book in grade. And this is not an isolated example. Is AF #15 9.6 still a $1.1 million book now that the census has tripled from 1 to 3?

 

People can make all the excuses they like, but I think most SA comics are off their peak levels of 2-3 years ago (of course, BA, Copper and Modern peaked long before that). And, no, just because there are exceptions to this statement does not alter its basic veracity. It really couldn't be more obvious, actually - why do you think all the auction houses are targeting OA these days? They know that 2010-2011 was as good as it's ever going to get for comics. Now the market is largely saturated while lax grading standards and CPR and other manipulation continues to inflate the census, so they've moved on to the next hot thing.

 

Why did he lose so much on the Avengers book?

 

 

[BlowUpTheMoon]

OP is the same knucklehead that auto posted/spammed 4800+ posts over here.

[ChrisInBaltimore]

OP is the same knucklehead that auto posted/spammed 4800+ posts over here.

 

Wow why would you do that?...

[THE_BEYONDER]

OP is the same knucklehead that auto posted/spammed 4800+ posts over here.

 

Wow why would you do that?...

 

From the 1930's (circa). Refers to a person of questionable intelligence. The size of the brain being given relative size of a human knuckle. Similar to pinhead.

That guy just sat on a bench with wet paint. What a knucklehead.

[ComicCollectorx19]

OP is the same knucklehead that auto posted/spammed 4800+ posts over here.

 

Wow why would you do that?...

 

From the 1930's (circa). Refers to a person of questionable intelligence. The size of the brain being given relative size of a human knuckle. Similar to pinhead.

That guy just sat on a bench with wet paint. What a knucklehead.

 

I was testing a macro program I created and figured the test forum, where test are allowed would be a funny place for it. As to how any of that is the slightest bit relevant to my original post, I know not.

 

It appears some people wish they were back in high-school and like to bring drama to threads whenever possible, clearly the knucklehead here.

[ComicCollectorx19]

The short answer is no, no comics are "safe" investments.

 

Yeah, just ask the guy who paid $91,500 for the Avengers #4 9.6 Ohio pedigree in 2011 and resold it for $29,750 this year. A 71% loss after commissions in 2 years. Blue chip, investment grade key issue. Yep, sounds like a safe investment to me! I know some people doubt the veracity of that initial sale, but there have been other sales in the $50Ks and $60Ks in any case, so we're talking at least a 40+% loss for that book in grade. And this is not an isolated example. Is AF #15 9.6 still a $1.1 million book now that the census has tripled from 1 to 3?

 

People can make all the excuses they like, but I think most SA comics are off their peak levels of 2-3 years ago (of course, BA, Copper and Modern peaked long before that). And, no, just because there are exceptions to this statement does not alter its basic veracity. It really couldn't be more obvious, actually - why do you think all the auction houses are targeting OA these days? They know that 2010-2011 was as good as it's ever going to get for comics. Now the market is largely saturated while lax grading standards and CPR and other manipulation continues to inflate the census, so they've moved on to the next hot thing.

 

Why did he lose so much on the Avengers book?

 

 

I too would like to know that any info on that?

[ChrisInBaltimore]

OP is the same knucklehead that auto posted/spammed 4800+ posts over here.

 

Wow why would you do that?...

 

From the 1930's (circa). Refers to a person of questionable intelligence. The size of the brain being given relative size of a human knuckle. Similar to pinhead.

That guy just sat on a bench with wet paint. What a knucklehead.

 

I was testing a macro program I created and figured the test forum, where test are allowed would be a funny place for it. As to how any of that is the slightest bit relevant to my original post, I know not.

 

It appears some people wish they were back in high-school and like to bring drama to threads whenever possible, clearly the knucklehead here.

 

Just curious, and I know off topic, but what use would that serve?

[Number 6]

Hello All,

 

I was wondering what your thoughts were on the true investing potential of golden and silver age books?

 

Obviously I feel that some books will continue to grow in value but im having some second thoughts on the smaller golden/silver age keys or minor keys. Will people who are being born in the 1990s and 2000s really care about these books when they get much older. I know many books for many collectors hold collectors value as well as sentimental value because they grew up with these books since they were kids, or they used to idolize superhero "XXXXX" etc.

 

Will the kids of today really care about the first appearances of figures like Ant man, plastic man , kingpin, atom man etc?

 

Hope to hear your input!

I think there will always be an audience, but I definitely think a shift to original art will happen. Especially as more and more artists shift to digital, I have a feeling OA will be the more desired collectible.

 

 

Completely disagree here. Most of the desirable OA is already well out of most people's disposable income, or even investment budget, range. Unless you're talking about the OA for some of the modern drek that is out now then that ship has sailed. I agree with an earlier poster...low grade Silver age first appearance books is where it's at...

 

Yes, I'm talking about modern OA drek, which a lot of people desire. A nice Jim Lee or Frank Miller page can command just as much as a page from one of the SA greats.

 

And to your point, is "desirable OA" just going to be so pricey that no one buys it? No. It will sell. Two final points:

 

A: There will always be dispensable incomes. If something goes to auction, it'll sell. OA is a different ballgame than comics.

 

B: Are all you old farts just going to be buried with your Kirby and Ditko pages, or are you going to let us whippersnappers buy them off you?

 

EDIT: GO STILLERS. Knew you had to be a stubborn yinzer to be making points like that

 

 

There's no doubt that OA will always sell, but will the prices become such that when it sells it's only moving back and forth between a handful of high-rollers? Sure it will be constantly bought and sold, but will 98% of collectors be shut out because of the price?

[THE_BEYONDER]

OP is the same knucklehead that auto posted/spammed 4800+ posts over here.

 

Wow why would you do that?...

 

From the 1930's (circa). Refers to a person of questionable intelligence. The size of the brain being given relative size of a human knuckle. Similar to pinhead.

That guy just sat on a bench with wet paint. What a knucklehead.

 

I was testing a macro program I created and figured the test forum, where test are allowed would be a funny place for it. As to how any of that is the slightest bit relevant to my original post, I know not.

 

It appears some people wish they were back in high-school and like to bring drama to threads whenever possible, clearly the knucklehead here.

 

I've been called worse.

[Speedy-D]

The short answer is no, no comics are "safe" investments.

 

Yeah, just ask the guy who paid $91,500 for the Avengers #4 9.6 Ohio pedigree in 2011 and resold it for $29,750 this year. A 71% loss after commissions in 2 years. Blue chip, investment grade key issue. Yep, sounds like a safe investment to me! I know some people doubt the veracity of that initial sale, but there have been other sales in the $50Ks and $60Ks in any case, so we're talking at least a 40+% loss for that book in grade. And this is not an isolated example. Is AF #15 9.6 still a $1.1 million book now that the census has tripled from 1 to 3?

 

People can make all the excuses they like, but I think most SA comics are off their peak levels of 2-3 years ago (of course, BA, Copper and Modern peaked long before that). And, no, just because there are exceptions to this statement does not alter its basic veracity. It really couldn't be more obvious, actually - why do you think all the auction houses are targeting OA these days? They know that 2010-2011 was as good as it's ever going to get for comics. Now the market is largely saturated while lax grading standards and CPR and other manipulation continues to inflate the census, so they've moved on to the next hot thing.

 

Why did he lose so much on the Avengers book?

 

 

I too would like to know that any info on that?

He paid too much? Comics aren't a great investment? :shrug:

[comicsnyc22]

OP is the same knucklehead that auto posted/spammed 4800+ posts over here.

 

Wow why would you do that?...

 

Sort of lame, but perhaps he thinks more posts means more tenure and knowledge/experience on the boards?

[DeliBebek]

OP is the same knucklehead that auto posted/spammed 4800+ posts over here.

 

Wow why would you do that?...

 

From the 1930's (circa). Refers to a person of questionable intelligence. The size of the brain being given relative size of a human knuckle. Similar to pinhead.

That guy just sat on a bench with wet paint. What a knucklehead.

 

I was testing a macro program I created and figured the test forum, where test are allowed would be a funny place for it. As to how any of that is the slightest bit relevant to my original post, I know not.

 

It appears some people wish they were back in high-school and like to bring drama to threads whenever possible, clearly the knucklehead here.

Your macro was hitting the key twice occasionally, creating posts like "11" amid several posts of "1"s. Sometimes your macro hit the key just below the 1 and posted a "q" in the middle of several posts of "1"s. In the middle of the alphabetical string of posts, your macro suddenly put a space and a period after the letter "s." That's an amazing amount of extra detail to put into a macro. I'm guessing you were trying to replicate the obvious errors that a human would make. Successful!

 

To avoid the drama, you should test macros with a dummy account, so that it doesn't artificially inflate your post count and make it seem that you are more active here than you actually are. People will start to expect you to serve on the board council and stuff like that.

[delekkerste]

Why did he lose so much on the Avengers book?

He paid too much? Comics aren't a great investment? :shrug:

 

Most people seem to have a very naïve view of what makes a good investment. What you're buying is only half of the equation. How much you're paying is the other, more important half. An AF #15 9.0 might be a great investment at $50K. How about at $500K? How about at $5 million? There is nothing so inherently good about AF #15s that you can ignore your entry price.

 

Like I said, that Avengers #4 9.6 example is not isolated. Many high grade SA books, both keys and commons, were driven up to ludicrous levels during the Schmell/Brulato years (dragging up the value of the lower grades as well) and are now worth nickels and dimes on the dollar. Remember when FF #10 9.6 sold for $27,999 in November 2009? Three years later, in November 2012, it had become a $5.3K book. The SA landscape is littered with examples like this, absolutely littered. Just like Bronze Age. Remember when Hulk #181 9.8 was a $25K book? Look what happened to GL #76 prices as well. "Safe investments" indeed.

[october]

Why did he lose so much on the Avengers book?

He paid too much? Comics aren't a great investment? :shrug:

 

Most people seem to have a very naïve view of what makes a good investment. What you're buying is only half of the equation. How much you're paying is the other, more important half. An AF #15 9.0 might be a great investment at $50K. How about at $500K? How about at $5 million? There is nothing so inherently good about AF #15s that you can ignore your entry price.

 

Like I said, that Avengers #4 9.6 example is not isolated. Many high grade SA books, both keys and commons, were driven up to ludicrous levels during the Schmell/Brulato years (dragging up the value of the lower grades as well) and are now worth nickels and dimes on the dollar. Remember when FF #5 9.6 sold for $27,999 in November 2009? Three years later, in November 2012, it had become a $5.3K book. The SA landscape is littered with examples like this, absolutely littered. Just like Bronze Age. Remember when Hulk #181 9.8 was a $25K book? Look what happened to GL #76 prices as well. "Safe investments" indeed.

 

No, the super high grade landscape is littered with examples. Cherry picking doom and gloom numbers from a collecting space inhabited by .01% of the fanbase and drawing generalized conclusions from it is unfair. "Investment" doesn't necessarily mean 9.4 or better, and many of the example issues you cite have steadily ticked up in low and mid-grade.

 

Investing in comics isn't a safe bet, but it isn't the train wreck you seen to relish making it out to be.

[CheekyMonkey-migration]

I personally do not see comics as investments and I am sure that I will not be the only one to state that Stocks, bonds etc.. are more appropriate for investment purposes.

 

I do however believe that Golden age and some silver age books are more stable in terms of value than books post 1970. Keys and post 1970 comics are generally more prone to increases in value due to speculation surrounding movies or TV series but are not always safe investments eg : Sixth Gun series halved in value overnight I believe?

 

[AGGIEZ]

Why did he lose so much on the Avengers book?

He paid too much? Comics aren't a great investment? :shrug:

 

Most people seem to have a very naïve view of what makes a good investment. What you're buying is only half of the equation. How much you're paying is the other, more important half. An AF #15 9.0 might be a great investment at $50K. How about at $500K? How about at $5 million? There is nothing so inherently good about AF #15s that you can ignore your entry price.

 

Like I said, that Avengers #4 9.6 example is not isolated. Many high grade SA books, both keys and commons, were driven up to ludicrous levels during the Schmell/Brulato years (dragging up the value of the lower grades as well) and are now worth nickels and dimes on the dollar. Remember when FF #5 9.6 sold for $27,999 in November 2009? Three years later, in November 2012, it had become a $5.3K book. The SA landscape is littered with examples like this, absolutely littered. Just like Bronze Age. Remember when Hulk #181 9.8 was a $25K book? Look what happened to GL #76 prices as well. "Safe investments" indeed.

 

No, the super high grade landscape is littered with examples. Cherry picking doom and gloom numbers from a collecting space inhabited by .01% of the fanbase and drawing generalized conclusions from it is unfair. "Investment" doesn't necessarily mean 9.4 our better, and many of the example issues you cite have steadily ticked up in low and mid-grade.

 

Investing in comics isn't a safe bet, but it isn't the train wreck you seen to relish making it out to be.

 

 

+1

 

As exaggerated and rare as those examples are, they just further reinforce my opinion that low grade 1st appearance keys are the right space to be in if you're looking for appreciation at a reasonable entry price point... And GL 76 is probay the most overrated "key" out there.

[musicmeta]

I feel strongly my "Uncensored Mouse" issues will turn the corner and take off in value and be worth a ton of money...Dead today, on everybody's want list tomorrow!

 

[comicwiz]

My LCS also said there had been a lot of younger readers inquiring about Silver Age books in the last month.

 

I'd imagine we will see a huge influx of mid 20s to late 30s collectors into the market. These people who loved comics in the 90s but lost interest when they weren't readily available have been watching all the films. They will suddenly want to collect these books.

 

You have to look deeper than just the notion of "collecting" to explain why this interest exists.

 

The cynic in me can't help think that there is a lot more interest in the market's "refinery" and "upgrading" aspects - i.e. taking raw books and having them graded, optimized, signed, repaired, or any combination of these things.

 

The glue has been certification maintaining a foothold in market demand/interest. We can only speculate how long certification remains relevant, reserving some recognition that the activities and existence of the back-issue refiners, and the refinery down the hall from CGC, hinge entirely on the upgrade play.

 

I don't think the two (collecting and refining) necessarily need to be mutually exclusive, but my opinion is that most new entrants are hooked into the hobby refinery and upgrade play, and far fewer are getting into it for the hobby collecting for the sake of collecting aspect.