Lou Ferrigno

[namisgr]

Could their deaths be attributed to the Heavy Duty program stressing their bodies, or was it more about genetics?

 

It was most likely from the deleterious long-term effects of anabolic steroids on the cardiovascular system.

[Goldeneye]

Could their deaths be attributed to the Heavy Duty program stressing their bodies, or was it more about genetics?

Pro Wrestlers and bodybuilders die at younger ages it just goes with the territory.

[Bosco685]

 

That is sad. And I remember reading a Muscle & Fitness interview with Mike M. where his back had gotten so huge, he couldn't sleep lying down because his neck would be forced backwards. He had to prop himself up on a few pillows just to get comfortable. It was an odd comment at the time, but now makes me think if it was all worth it in the end just to be top bodybuilding dog.

[Ajl007]

Could their deaths be attributed to the Heavy Duty program stressing their bodies, or was it more about genetics?

 

I was just talking with some people about this the other day. Large people die young. The human body is just not made to support that much mass for that long. Combine the high blood pressure that comes with being really massive with the drugs that it takes to get that size and you're burning the candle at both ends. Unless you make some changes it will exploit a genetic weakness sooner or later.

 

 

That's why Arnold was on the juice leading up to the competition, and was off the gear and took rest for 6 months, plus also he retired at age 28, returned at 33. Young compared to today's BB. Many don't reach their peak until their mid 30's. Plus many of the supplements will cause an acidic environment in your body, not good. Eating greens and detoxifying your body will neutralize the ill effects. We did a blood test on some college athletes who buy products that can be sold at many "nutritional" stores, many don't have nutritional benefits, will lower your PH below 7, can lead to many ailments. One product called jack 3d contains di methyl ethyl amine which can seriously screw you up. Also all the hormones and antibiotics we have in many of our foods can also compound the effects.

[rednalsram]

Could their deaths be attributed to the Heavy Duty program stressing their bodies, or was it more about genetics?

Pro Wrestlers and bodybuilders die at younger ages it just goes with the territory.

 

F.Y.I. Not all bodybuilders take steroids.

[Stronguy]

That's why Arnold was on the juice leading up to the competition, and was off the gear and took rest for 6 months, plus also he retired at age 28, returned at 33.

I seriously doubt any of that is true. The only person who can accurately say what and when he took and didn't take is Arnold himself. My guess (and it's just an educated guess) is he was on some pretty decent cycles (which do not include coming off for 6 months... no one comes off for 6 months) well past his competition days. It wouldn't surprise me to find out he's back on right now. It's also worth noting that the understanding of androgens back then was like the stone age compared to where we are now. Basically they (BBers and trainers of the time) knew what to take and had a good guess at what dosage but they didn't know why. These days they're down to mapping effects at a genetic level. Not that your run of the mill gym rat will have a clue but your top level BBer and performance athletes will certainly have someone in their corner who is doing the math for them.

 

One product called jack 3d contains di methyl ethyl amine which can seriously screw you up.

 

I think what you're talking about is dimethylamylamine (DMAA). That's a substrate of the geranium plant which is how it got classified as a "natural" supplement. It has come under much FDA scrutiny recently and will likely be banned in the US in the next few months. It's not because it's killing people or that there are harmful side effects, it's that someone told someone in the FDA that it might have similar effects on the brain as meth (from a focus and concentration standpoint... and they're right) and that was enough to get them interested. The FDA couldn't give a rats arse about what's actually safe, just what they get to control.

[Goldeneye]

Could their deaths be attributed to the Heavy Duty program stressing their bodies, or was it more about genetics?

Pro Wrestlers and bodybuilders die at younger ages it just goes with the territory.

 

F.Y.I. Not all bodybuilders take steroids.

FYI I did not accuse them of taking steroids. Its the heavy toll the workouts take on their body and the supplements the professional wrestlers and professionals bodybuilders take to help them get to that size. One of my friends is in need of a new kidney because of the toll this stuff too on him He is on dialysis now too. All I said is that dying early goes with the territory.

[Stronguy]

Could their deaths be attributed to the Heavy Duty program stressing their bodies, or was it more about genetics?

Pro Wrestlers and bodybuilders die at younger ages it just goes with the territory.

 

F.Y.I. Not all bodybuilders take steroids.

 

:thumbsup:

If steroids caused everything that they are accused of, especially by those who know very little about them (and I say "cause" not "contributed to"), there would be thousands of people dropping dead each year.

 

That being said, BBers and wrestlers (who are just BBers on TV) generally live by the motto, "If 1 is good and 2 is better then 500 must be the most betterist in the universe."

[Stronguy]

Could their deaths be attributed to the Heavy Duty program stressing their bodies, or was it more about genetics?

Pro Wrestlers and bodybuilders die at younger ages it just goes with the territory.

 

F.Y.I. Not all bodybuilders take steroids.

FYI I did not accuse them of taking steroids. Its the heavy toll the workouts take on their body and the supplements the professional wrestlers and professionals bodybuilders take to help them get to that size. One of my friends is in need of a new kidney because of the toll this stuff too on him He is on dialysis now too. All I said is that dying early goes with the territory.

 

I'll flat out accuse them (competitive BBers) of using steroids... I live in no fantasy world. If you want to win BBing competitions you have to be on the juice. No two ways about it. The guys who are legitimately lifetime drug free are not even on the same planet as some of the lower level amateurs. Do they look decent, sure -- better than 99% of the people who just lift to lift. But they can't even compete with drugged BBers.

[Silver Surfer]

All one has to do is look at Sly Stalone and Micky Rourke these days. Those guys are so jacked up its not even funny. Maybe not "steriods" as most people traditionally know them but HGH, etc.

[DR.X]

I think a lot of the problems associated with the steroids was just plain old abuse. If ten Dianabol was good, twenty must be better.

 

I knew, and still know guys who take stuff. But it seems that the guys who stayed on very low dosages, still look pretty darn good, and never had any problems.

 

It seems when you start taking heavy doses for long periods of time is when the problems start. I knew knuckleheads that were taking four Anadrol a day, three 1 cc injections of Propinate a week with two shots of Equipois. Today they look like they're half dead.

 

The body also has a much harder time breaking down the orals in the liver than the injectables. The trouble with those is that they were a bit harder to come by back then and you needed a big supply of 22 gauge syringes laying around.

[Stronguy]

I think a lot of the problems associated with the steroids was just plain old abuse. If ten Dianabol was good, twenty must be better.

 

I knew, and still know guys who take stuff. But it seems that the guys who stayed on very low dosages, still look pretty darn good, and never had any problems.

 

It seems when you start taking heavy doses for long periods of time is when the problems start. I knew knuckleheads that were taking four Anadrol a day, three 1 cc injections of Propinate a week with two shots of Equipois. Today they look like they're half dead.

 

The body also has a much harder time breaking down the orals in the liver than the injectables. The trouble with those is that they were a bit harder to come by back then and you needed a big supply of 22 gauge syringes laying around.

 

100%

 

From the late 80s to the late 90s I saw the dosages people were taking increase sometimes 10x. Back in the day you were good with 400mg of Test, 400mg of Deca and 200 mg of Dbol a week. That put you at a gram a week and you were really considered to be pushing it. Ten years later I knew guys who would take 2 grams (combined) A DAY!!!

 

[Stronguy]

All one has to do is look at Sly Stalone and Micky Rourke these days. Those guys are so jacked up its not even funny. Maybe not "steriods" as most people traditionally know them but HGH, etc.

 

GH, while good by itself for the fountain of youth effect, is pretty much useless for size unless you combine it with some anabolics, T3 and insulin. You need to cover the whole spectrum to get the best bang out of it.

[Ajl007]

That's why Arnold was on the juice leading up to the competition, and was off the gear and took rest for 6 months, plus also he retired at age 28, returned at 33.

I seriously doubt any of that is true. The only person who can accurately say what and when he took and didn't take is Arnold himself. My guess (and it's just an educated guess) is he was on some pretty decent cycles (which do not include coming off for 6 months... no one comes off for 6 months) well past his competition days. It wouldn't surprise me to find out he's back on right now. It's also worth noting that the understanding of androgens back then was like the stone age compared to where we are now. Basically they (BBers and trainers of the time) knew what to take and had a good guess at what dosage but they didn't know why. These days they're down to mapping effects at a genetic level. Not that your run of the mill gym rat will have a clue but your top level BBer and performance athletes will certainly have someone in their corner who is doing the math for them.

 

One product called jack 3d contains di methyl ethyl amine which can seriously screw you up.

 

I think what you're talking about is dimethylamylamine (DMAA). That's a substrate of the geranium plant which is how it got classified as a "natural" supplement. It has come under much FDA scrutiny recently and will likely be banned in the US in the next few months. It's not because it's killing people or that there are harmful side effects, it's that someone told someone in the FDA that it might have similar effects on the brain as meth (from a focus and concentration standpoint... and they're right) and that was enough to get them interested. The FDA couldn't give a rats arse about what's actually safe, just what they get to control.

 

Yes DMAA, got this confused with something else, "We report for the first time that acute ingestion of 1,3-dimethylamylamine alone and in combination with caffeine results in an increase in SBP, DBP, and RPP without an increase in HR. The largest increase is observed at 60 minutes post-ingestion of C + G 75 mg. These changes cannot be explained by circulating NE and EPI."

[DR.X]

O.K. here's my worthless Mentzer story. I had to wait to post this because I had to get some of the story right from the horse's mouth. So some of this is first hand, and some second.

 

I'm not going to repeat some the info I got as this thread would go nuclear. So here goes.

 

One of my good friends use to own a gym in Matteson Illinois, which is about 45 minutes south of Chicago. This had no association with Mekulys Gym in Chicago Heights which is where I workded out.

 

He use to attend the Olympia and Universe contests back in the later seventies and early eighties. He also use to go out to Santa Barbara California now and then.

 

He was in California in 84/85 I believe he said when he ran into Mike Mentzer working out on the beach. He waited until he was done working out and went over and started B.S.ing with him. He said him and his brother Ray were really nice guys and would talk about anything.

 

So he asks Mentzer if he would be interested in doing a Seminar for his gym. He arranged it at the Holiday Inn on Halsted St in Harvey, Illinois. Mentzer said o.k. Give me a call.

 

So my buddy calls him up, sets the date and pays for his hotel, flights, the whole thing. Everything was a go, and he sells a ton of tickets. Mentzer comes into town. My buddy went and picked him up at the airport and had quite a conversation with him before the seminar. Mentzer spoke for about an hour and a half at the seminar. He was not in contest shape, so was not interested in posing.

 

It was no secret that Mentzer could not stand Arnold. He made it clear that he thought Arnold was a big Weider kiss azz, which he was. Mentzer was the type of guy who kissed nobody's azz. Probabaly the reason he never really got the recognition he deserved.

 

Just look at the 1980 Olympia where Arnold made his comeback and won. Sorry, he was still big, but just look at the pics. No way he should have won that title. Zane smashed his trophy on the floor, and him and Coe were livid.

 

Anyway, Mentzer pulled no punches at this seminar. He openly discussed steroids, how he cycled on them and what he took. Wish there was a video cameras back then, he said some crazy azz sheet about some other bodybuilders. Maybe is was B.S., but he didn't seem like a story teller.

 

There were also rumours circulating around at the time of his death. He was allegedly starting to make a comeback with his brother Ray. I remember hearing stories ( and maybe they were ) that he had taken the wrong combination of stuff and it killed him. That's probably B.S. There were also rumours that he had severe depression and he commited suicide...LIke I say, these were just rumours that went around, and not my opinon at all.

[Bosco685]

It was no secret that Mentzer could not stand Arnold. He made it clear that he thought Arnold was a big Weider kiss azz, which he was. Mentzer was the type of guy who kissed nobody's azz. Probabaly the reason he never really got the recognition he deserved.

 

He definitely could not stand Arnold. But he did an interview in early 2000 in which he mentioned his view changed when Arnold called Ray Mentzer in the hospital and told him if there was anything he needed, just call and he would be there. It was a big change for Mike in how he viewed Arnold.

 

But that 7th Mr. Olympia was definitely not right.

 

 

Summary of the competition

[Ajl007]

Mike hated Arnold, that was not secret, but later in life, from what I heard from other BB, they mended fences and Arnold had offered to pay for Mikes and his brother's medical bills. Arnold may have been a kiss , but for 1980 while down on size, he only trained to 8-7 weeks for the show while others had been preparing for close to a year. Arnold has charisma, something others lacked. Flex Wheeler to me could have been the next one, and he should have. After Lee Haney, BB when down hill, I hope they get back to the good old days.

[DR.X]

That's a pretty good pic. Look how flabby Arnolds obliques look and not as much definition in the abs. Thighs are small and not as defined as Mentzer or some of the others. Just my

[Bosco685]

And the day Arnold announced he was going to compete, and it was left up to the other contestants if that was okay, of course Arnold was a gentleman about it.

 

There were heated words between Arnold and Mike Mentzer, it came close to fists and comments like Arnold saying Mike could "never win the Olympia with a big gut" were thrown at each other. Eventually it was sorted out and Arnold was given the OK to enter. Still, a few remained unhappy about the decision.

 

[DR.X]

Mike hated Arnold, that was not secret, but later in life, from what I heard from other BB, they mended fences and Arnold had offered to pay for Mikes and his brother's medical bills. Arnold may have been a kiss , but for 1980 while down on size, he only trained to 8-7 weeks for the show while others had been preparing for close to a year. Arnold has charisma, something others lacked. Flex Wheeler to me could have been the next one, and he should have. After Lee Haney, BB when down hill, I hope they get back to the good old days.

 

Well, sadly those good old days are gone. Back then, you could tell who was who just by looking at they're physique. They were all unique. Dickerson, Robinson, Waller, Katz, Oliva, Zane, Nubert, and so on all had unique features.

 

These guys today are all in the 280 - 300 lb range and they all look the same. Like bloated up Michelin men.