Bolland Killing Joke Art

[heartened]

OK, maybe it isn't as undervalued as I thought!

[Mephisto]

OK, maybe it isn't as undervalued as I thought!

 

If you take a long in the guide aside from Detective 140 there are really not other books in that series from the late 40's up until around issue 225 that even come close to the value for the book listed in the OS. I think it's an important book. Hard to say whether it's undervalued. I paid $1,195 for mine in a private deal in early 2003. Metro has the other 6.5 listed at i think $1,550 and it's been on the site for awhile. Before the 2004 OS came out they had it listed at $1,400. The Metro copy has slightly better PQ having off-white pages while my 6.5 has cream to off-white pages. ComicLink sold an 8.0 in that Nappa Valley auction they had a few months ago. I Honestly can't remember how much it sold for maybe $8,000 or so?

[COI]

Comics from the 80s are relatively cheap, compared to the Silver Age, but the comic art from the 80s is quite expensive and in many cases is higher priced than art from the 60s.

 

Makes sense. I'm also an 80's kid(bought mid/late 80's books off the stands), and as far as spending money goes, there isn't much to buy comic-wise. So it does make sense that the art is commanding so much; it's either that, or go back and collect the books that launched our favorite characters(which is what I do). Although, by chance, I picked up tons of reprints in my childhood, as well as Overstreets, so SA does offer quite a bit of nostalgia and childhood wish-fulfillment for me.

[Mephisto]

Hari do you know where the cover is for the Killing Joke?

[heartened]

I started by collecting books in the 80s, and started selling/trading between my friends. During the latter half of high school and then all through college, I started buying only high-grade Silver Age books, sticking primarily to the key books/issues. Like you say, there wasn't much to invest in from the 80s, or even from the 70s at that time, so I concentrated on early Silver Age. Part of the reason to collect them was the rarity, part was the investment potential, and part was the fact that they were the same characters that I grew up reading... only earlier issues, since the stuff from the modern era was small-potatos price-wise, by comparison.

 

Somewhere along the way, I realized that the art had more inherent value.... it was actually touched by the penciler, as opposed to books that are actually touched by..... a printer? And, of course, they are the rarest form of rare, being one-of-a-kind. I liked that. And then, add to it that I can have some of the things from the 80s that I grew up with, and that there is investment potential in 80s art (unlike 80s comics), and you've got the making of a great hobby.

 

I think I'm still in the minority of comic art collectors, in that I have a sizable component of art from the 80s. I still looked for the key artists from the 60s, but I always had the goal of getting something nice from everything I liked in the 80s. That means a nice Dark Knight example, a Watchmen example, a Killing Joke example, a TMNT example, Grendel, Miracleman, Elementals, Usagi, etc..... And, that's what I've done. The fact that prices for this stuff has gone to such levels may surprise some, but the fact of the matter is that's where an increasing number of collectors are putting their money these days.

[heartened]

Yes.

[comicartfan]

I started by collecting books in the 80s, and started selling/trading between my friends. During the latter half of high school and then all through college, I started buying only high-grade Silver Age books, sticking primarily to the key books/issues. Like you say, there wasn't much to invest in from the 80s, or even from the 70s at that time, so I concentrated on early Silver Age. Part of the reason to collect them was the rarity, part was the investment potential, and part was the fact that they were the same characters that I grew up reading... only earlier issues, since the stuff from the modern era was small-potatos price-wise, by comparison.

 

Somewhere along the way, I realized that the art had more inherent value.... it was actually touched by the penciler, as opposed to books that are actually touched by..... a printer? And, of course, they are the rarest form of rare, being one-of-a-kind. I liked that. And then, add to it that I can have some of the things from the 80s that I grew up with, and that there is investment potential in 80s art (unlike 80s comics), and you've got the making of a great hobby.

 

I think I'm still in the minority of comic art collectors, in that I have a sizable component of art from the 80s. I still looked for the key artists from the 60s, but I always had the goal of getting something nice from everything I liked in the 80s. That means a nice Dark Knight example, a Watchmen example, a Killing Joke example, a TMNT example, Grendel, Miracleman, Elementals, Usagi, etc..... And, that's what I've done. The fact that prices for this stuff has gone to such levels may surprise some, but the fact of the matter is that's where an increasing number of collectors are putting their money these days.

 

it's because collectibles are driven by nostalgia more than anything else. It's about capturing that feeling you had as a boy grabbing the book off the newstands and getting all excited to see what was behind that tremendous eye catching cover...(usually the cover had nothing to do with the story....not that it mattered) -

since you have those collectors now in their 30s, they may be settled in careers and allready have the house, 1.2 kids and now it's playtime.....time to get those extra "toys' that they have been missing....

 

I think that it's this mentality that is going to have an impact on the Golden age books in the future....sure, there will always be a ninch for high grade golden age, but the market will become smaller and there won't be a market for Capt. Marvel , jr. or Bullet Man # 1 ........Superman and Batman ...with Wonder Woman and Capt. America will be spared. But the Blue Beetle or Cat Man won't be sought after by collectors....

[heartened]

Came across this excerpt from an Alan Moore interview, where he describes why he didn't like his own work on Killing Joke:

 

"But at the end of the day, Watchmen was something to do with power, V for Vendetta was about fascism and anarchy, The Killing Joke was just about Batman and the Joker - and Batman and the Joker are not really symbols of anything that are real, in the real world, they're just two comic book characters."

 

That statement sort of pisses me off! Basically, he's saying he didn't like it because it's just about Batman and the Joker. Hello!!!! We're comic fans! That's what he was SUPPOSED to be writing about! Hey, if you want to write non-fiction, you picked the wrong hobby.

 

This may explain why we comic fans love it, but he doesn't. As a superhero story, it was great. It won't win the Pulitzer like Maus did, and maybe that's the kind of stuff he'd rather do.

 

Anyway, sounds like I may be talking to myself on this thread at this point, but that's OK

[Foolkiller]

i hate to say it, but I think Alan Moore is a great comic book writer, but probably over rated for a writer in general. He's one of these guys who both loves and hates the medium. He's great at handling super hero characters and developing great fictional ideas... but I think a lot of his work is just sort of so-so.

 

With the exception of Gaiman and Meltzer (although he was a novelist first) I can't think of too many comic book writers who do real with crossover to other mediums. Sure there's Loeb writing a little for tv and movies (although nothing super noteworthy) and Goyer (but he doesn't do a lot of writing anymore)... but most comic book writers I don't find would be as successful as their supposed revered status in comics.

 

That's why when Alan Moore rips on "super heroes" I laugh... because I doubt he'd be much of a blip on the radar without them.

[nearmint]

I think that it's this mentality that is going to have an impact on the Golden age books in the future....sure, there will always be a ninch for high grade golden age, but the market will become smaller and there won't be a market for Capt. Marvel , jr. or Bullet Man # 1 ........Superman and Batman ...with Wonder Woman and Capt. America will be spared. But the Blue Beetle or Cat Man won't be sought after by collectors....

 

I have to disagree. I can't think of any Golden Age collectors(maybe Bob Overstreet?) who are old enough to have purchased issues of Captain Marvel Jr., Bulletman, Blue Beetle, or Cat-Man off the rack. So the nostalgia factor is already expired on those books. While an argument can be made that the market for these books might not grow, I don't see any reason to believe that it will shrink.

 

I'm an active Nedor collector, but didn't even know the books existed before the Photo-Journal came out. Why do I buy them? An appreciation for Alex Schomburg art, and an interest in the historical context in which they were published(WW2). There are many other collectors like me, far too young to feel nostalgiac for these characters, but are passionate about Schomburg, Fine, Biro, Sprang, Cole, etc.

[rob_react]

I'm an active Nedor collector, but didn't even know the books existed before the Photo-Journal came out. Why do I buy them? An appreciation for Alex Schomburg art, and an interest in the historical context in which they were published(WW2). There are many other collectors like me, far too young to feel nostalgiac for these characters, but are passionate about Schomburg, Fine, Biro, Sprang, Cole, etc.

 

My mother isn't even old enough to have bought off the shelves the GA books that I buy Actually, my mom wouldn't have been old enough for the comics that I collect until something like Showcase #22 rolled around.

 

Silver Age Marvels are even too old for me to be nostalgic for them but I also collect those... In fact, the books that I theoretically "should" be obsessing over (late 70s, early 80s Marvels) are just about the LEAST interesting books in the hobby to me (with the exception of the overproduced stuff from the early 90s.)

 

As long as their are mags, sites, and outlets like this for people to share their collecting interests, all but the most "focused" few will spread their wings a little and check out books outside of their comfort zone.

[COI]

I think nostalgia is the starting point for collectors, and is what brings people BACK to a hobby, but for most(especially here) that's far from the end of it.

 

As you well know, I'm in my mid-20's, yet early SA Marvel is my primary love. And yes, some of it is reprint nostalgia, but I was exposed to an Overstreet, and a brick and mortar shop at a young age, and the back issues/wall books immedietly took my attention off of the racks. Can't say why exactly, but old books have always had more of an allure for me. I remember being 9, and spending $15(which took me about a month to put together) on a DD #181, while my buddy raided the racks. He thought I was nuts, and I thought he was nuts for not going for the other DD #181 hanging there. I'm still friends with him, and to this day nothing has changed. He thinks I'm nuts for all the slab buying, and I think he's nuts for spending $500 a month on new stuff.

[comicartfan]

I think that it's this mentality that is going to have an impact on the Golden age books in the future....sure, there will always be a ninch for high grade golden age, but the market will become smaller and there won't be a market for Capt. Marvel , jr. or Bullet Man # 1 ........Superman and Batman ...with Wonder Woman and Capt. America will be spared. But the Blue Beetle or Cat Man won't be sought after by collectors....

 

I have to disagree. I can't think of any Golden Age collectors(maybe Bob Overstreet?) who are old enough to have purchased issues of Captain Marvel Jr., Bulletman, Blue Beetle, or Cat-Man off the rack. So the nostalgia factor is already expired on those books. While an argument can be made that the market for these books might not grow, I don't see any reason to believe that it will shrink.

 

I'm an active Nedor collector, but didn't even know the books existed before the Photo-Journal came out. Why do I buy them? An appreciation for Alex Schomburg art, and an interest in the historical context in which they were published(WW2). There are many other collectors like me, far too young to feel nostalgiac for these characters, but are passionate about Schomburg, Fine, Biro, Sprang, Cole, etc.

 

 

I said in my post that there will always be a market for that stufff.....i know that there are some GA collectors out there that may be younger than most, but what i was saying is that the market will be smaller.....it's not like the Silver Age collector who grew up reading Spider-man and the X Men in the 80's and 90's , only to fiond themselves buying high grade books later on....

[shrunkenhead]

The demand for GA books may not be as wild as the demand for HG silver, but GA books don't need that kind of demand to sell for big dollars in high grade; they're scarce enough in supply to attract a select but knowledgeable clientele. Say what you will about high-grade gold, but the fact is that no matter how much the demand "shrinks" (which I don't really see happening anyway), there will never be enough highgrade GA to go around.

 

In the past couple of years, we've seen an astonishing amount of GA on the open market, as longtime collectors/dealers are releasing their gems from the vaults in order to cash in on the CGC market frenzy. That's given a lot of people the false impression that there's enough GA for everyone, but in the near future those books will get absorbed into new collections and disappear. It won't be too long before the choice GA is as scarce again as it was 10 or 15 yrs ago. People are naturally attracted to old relics from a bygone age, and that plays more of a factor for buyers in the GA category that any kind of sense of nostalgia.

 

And the KJ page looks awesome!

[Mephisto]

I'm 21 and in the past 2 years I have probably bought more Gold issues than from any of the other time periods, except for when I bought a CGC run of the Joker.

[Ze-man]

I am glad to see this thread stay near the top of the main Comics General page.

 

I will never tire of seeing those 2 pages..

 

Now go buy some more pages to post,for those of us that are monetarily challenged.... ya big cheepskate

You cant show us only 2 pages.......

 

 

 

 

Ze-

 

(kidding bro.. , thnx again for the glimpse at your pages of worth, and might I ask if you have them both framed.. in a place of honor in your house?)

[comicartfan]

Hari,

now how about getting those pages from Ken Danker ? - he's got some beauts !

[heartened]

Hah! He isn't letting go of his pages, but I'm slowly keeping track of where some of the other ones are. It's amazing I found two and that I was able to get people to sell, but it would be a miracle to find a third. But, I definitely am still looking, so you never know!!

[heartened]

Hi Ze,

 

No, I don't have them framed at the present time, but I may do that. I tend to worry about the light yellowing them over time, and in a frame you won't be able to even notice that until you take it out.

 

Cheapskate, huh? I know you're kidding, but every time I buy one of these pages, I seem to push the price bracket higher and higher. Not my fault, but I'm just willing to outbid the next guy (or at least I have been willing to do so thus far). If prices keep going up, I'm out of the running in the future. But, if they stay the same, I've got a chance. Hopefully, my publicizing that I want more may help shake some loose.

[heartened]

"People are naturally attracted to old relics from a bygone age, and that plays more of a factor for buyers in the GA category that any kind of sense of nostalgia"

 

I tend to agree with this. There are a few reasons that Silver Age is more popular than Golden Age at the present time. Number one, the prices are higher for Golden Age books of the main characters (Batman, Superman, etc.) and so most collectors simply can't afford it. Second, more people are Marvel fans than DC fans, and the Golden Age was more about DC than Marvel. The switch came in the 60s, as you all know. Third, there's more books available from the Silver Age, so you can physically have more collectors. Fourth, people like to collect high grade. And, frankly, that limits people since there aren't many high grade Golden Age books. Finally, collecting Silver Age is easier! It's everywhere, so the hunt is reasonable.

 

I think, if some of these factors weren't there, you'd see more people inherently attracted to the Golden Age than to the Silver Age, simply on the basis of rarity and age... just like any other hobby. But, these factors are quite strong.