TTA 35 vs TTA 27

[bronze johnny]

Here's a better question: Does TTA 27 say "The Return of the Ant-Man?"

[thunsicker]

Oh, and one other thing. TTA #27 doesn't have commies in it so it can't be the first appearance of a Marvel superhero.

[rjpb]

Most super-heroes origins precede the adoption of a costume and name, but usually it happens in the same story so there is no argument as to what issue the character first appeared. What I think is particularly cool about TTA 27 is it straddles the pre-hero Marvel sci-fi monster book and superhero comic worlds.

 

Obviously at the time the first story was written, there was no intention to create an ongoing series featuring Hank Pym and his size reducing formula, let alone one where he would adopt a costumed persona, but this adventure can rightfully be construed as Ant-Man's origin. It would be as if in a story titled "The Man in the Iron Suit" industrialist Tony Stark had fashioned crude mechanized armor to escape his captives, and initially discarded it at the end of the story as unneeded, only to show up 8 issues later in sleeker, advanced armor, calling himself Iron Man.

 

For those who insist that donning the costume and moniker is what constitutes a first appearance, then 35 will be the choice, but to reiterate my earlier comment, fifty years worth of Marvel collectors have sought out TTA 27 as a key book, and it's not because it's merely the first appearance of Henry Pym.

 

Certainly there is a better case for TTA 27 being the first appearance of "Ant-Man", then there is for Marvel Premiere 7 being the first appearance of "Rocket Raccoon" .

[rjpb]

Oh, and one other thing. TTA #27 doesn't have commies in it so it can't be the first appearance of a Marvel superhero.

 

Neither does AF #15, but point taken

[rjpb]

I could see much room for interpretation when we neglect to read what's on the cover.

 

Does TTA #27 say "The Superhero and future Avenger in the ant hill"?

 

It does have the words Ant and Man on the cover.

[Killgrave]

I wrote the following in another thread awhile back,

 

I have always wondered about the first appearance of Ant Man, to CGC it's TTA#27 however in the comic he is only known as Henry Pym 'The man in the ant hill".

 

There is the argument that because 8 months later in TTA#35 "Return of the Antman" is on the cover so how can 'return of' be a first appearance which I get, but since there was no reference to 'Ant Man" in TTA#27 how can it be the first appearance of "Ant-Man"? If anything it's Marvels fault for that oversight however in relation to CGC, to be consistent with this flawed logic TTA#27 should then also be "1st appearance of "Giant-Man", "Yellow-Jacket" etc.. but there is no mention on the label of those

 

My logic has been followed with Cable as in Uncanny X-MEN#201 it describes it as "1st appearance of Cable as Baby Nathan" with New Mutants #87 having "1st appearance of Cable"

 

So in my opinion TTA#35 should be "1st appearance of Ant-Man" with TTA#27 only the "1st appearance of Henry Pym" or to follow the Cable logic, "1st appearance of Ant-Man/Giant-Man/Yellow-Jacket as Henry Pym"

[Beige]

I wrote the following in another thread awhile back,

 

I have always wondered about the first appearance of Ant Man, to CGC it's TTA#27 however in the comic he is only known as Henry Pym 'The man in the ant hill".

 

There is the argument that because 8 months later in TTA#35 "Return of the Antman" is on the cover so how can 'return of' be a first appearance which I get, but since there was no reference to 'Ant Man" in TTA#27 how can it be the first appearance of "Ant-Man"? If anything it's Marvels fault for that oversight however in relation to CGC, to be consistent with this flawed logic TTA#27 should then also be "1st appearance of "Giant-Man", "Yellow-Jacket" etc.. but there is no mention on the label of those

 

My logic has been followed with Cable as in Uncanny X-MEN#201 it describes it as "1st appearance of Cable as Baby Nathan" with New Mutants #87 having "1st appearance of Cable"

 

So in my opinion TTA#35 should be "1st appearance of Ant-Man" with TTA#27 only the "1st appearance of Henry Pym" or to follow the Cable logic, "1st appearance of Ant-Man/Giant-Man/Yellow-Jacket as Henry Pym"

 

Hard to argue with that.

Perhaps CGC should clarify that on the cover of TTA #27

[Speedy-D]

I wrote the following in another thread awhile back,

 

I have always wondered about the first appearance of Ant Man, to CGC it's TTA#27 however in the comic he is only known as Henry Pym 'The man in the ant hill".

 

There is the argument that because 8 months later in TTA#35 "Return of the Antman" is on the cover so how can 'return of' be a first appearance which I get, but since there was no reference to 'Ant Man" in TTA#27 how can it be the first appearance of "Ant-Man"? If anything it's Marvels fault for that oversight however in relation to CGC, to be consistent with this flawed logic TTA#27 should then also be "1st appearance of "Giant-Man", "Yellow-Jacket" etc.. but there is no mention on the label of those

 

My logic has been followed with Cable as in Uncanny X-MEN#201 it describes it as "1st appearance of Cable as Baby Nathan" with New Mutants #87 having "1st appearance of Cable"

 

So in my opinion TTA#35 should be "1st appearance of Ant-Man" with TTA#27 only the "1st appearance of Henry Pym" or to follow the Cable logic, "1st appearance of Ant-Man/Giant-Man/Yellow-Jacket as Henry Pym"

The difference is, the only things missing in TTA 27 are the costume and the name, right? We've got the character, we've got the origin, we've got the "super power." What we're missing are the costume and the name. So, that's three elements out of five. Obviously the costume isn't enough to make a clear decision, as no one is arguing that FF3 is the first appearance of the Fantastic Four. So, that leaves us with the name. Personally, I'm thinking the name isn't enough to keep TTA 27 from being the first appearance.

 

I'm sure there are other examples of characters appearing for an issue or two before they get a superhero name, but I'm too lazy to try to remember any.

[Crimebuster]

 

I'm sure there are other examples of characters appearing for an issue or two before they get a superhero name, but I'm too lazy to try to remember any.

 

 

[rjpb]

to be consistent with this flawed logic TTA#27 should then also be "1st appearance of "Giant-Man", "Yellow-Jacket" etc.."

 

Talk about flawed logic. In TTA 27 Pym shrinks down to ANT size and deals with freaking ANTS, He doesn't grow to Giant-size, nor commune with yellowjackets, wasps, hornets, bumblebees or any other insects besides ants. It's the origin of Ant-man, not any of Pym's other alter-egos.

[rjpb]

 

I'm sure there are other examples of characters appearing for an issue or two before they get a superhero name, but I'm too lazy to try to remember any.

 

 

 

Excellent parallel.

[AGGIEZ]

I wrote the following in another thread awhile back,

 

I have always wondered about the first appearance of Ant Man, to CGC it's TTA#27 however in the comic he is only known as Henry Pym 'The man in the ant hill".

 

There is the argument that because 8 months later in TTA#35 "Return of the Antman" is on the cover so how can 'return of' be a first appearance which I get, but since there was no reference to 'Ant Man" in TTA#27 how can it be the first appearance of "Ant-Man"? If anything it's Marvels fault for that oversight however in relation to CGC, to be consistent with this flawed logic TTA#27 should then also be "1st appearance of "Giant-Man", "Yellow-Jacket" etc.. but there is no mention on the label of those

 

My logic has been followed with Cable as in Uncanny X-MEN#201 it describes it as "1st appearance of Cable as Baby Nathan" with New Mutants #87 having "1st appearance of Cable"

 

So in my opinion TTA#35 should be "1st appearance of Ant-Man" with TTA#27 only the "1st appearance of Henry Pym" or to follow the Cable logic, "1st appearance of Ant-Man/Giant-Man/Yellow-Jacket as Henry Pym"

 

Hard to argue with that.

Perhaps CGC should clarify that on the cover of TTA #27

 

Yes, yes they should...

[AGGIEZ]

to be consistent with this flawed logic TTA#27 should then also be "1st appearance of "Giant-Man", "Yellow-Jacket" etc.."

 

Talk about flawed logic. In TTA 27 Pym shrinks down to ANT size and deals with freaking ANTS, He doesn't grow to Giant-size, nor commune with yellowjackets, wasps, hornets, bumblebees or any other insects besides ants. It's the origin of Ant-man, not any of Pym's other alter-egos.

 

It's actually the origin of all of them, alter egos and all.

[Speedy-D]

 

I'm sure there are other examples of characters appearing for an issue or two before they get a superhero name, but I'm too lazy to try to remember any.

 

 

Wow, that's an almost perfect parallel. Well done!

[bronze johnny]

Now we can go ahead and argue that Strange Adventures 190 is the 1st Appearance of Animal Man.

[oakman29]

Not only is TTA 27 Pym's 1st appearance,but the market has deemed it so.NUFF SAID!

 

[Timely]

It's pretty clear when Marvel put out TTA #27 there was no intent at the time to turn the "Man in the Ant-Hill" into a Superhero. However, in the Marvel way of things, that character and story was turned into something epic a few months later. Usually Marvel takes years or decades to make a past story significant, but it's significance was clearly changed and the "Return of the Antman" was born. Marvel's intent was to make the Man in the Ant-Hill a superhero, and so he was.

 

TTA #27 is the 1st appearance of Antman.

 

If it's good enough for Marvel Comics to acknowledge it, it's good enough for me! (thumbs u

[Speedy-D]

It's pretty clear when Marvel put out TTA #27 there was no intent at the time to turn the "Man in the Ant-Hill" into a Superhero. However, in the Marvel way of things, that character and story was turned into something epic a few months later. Usually Marvel takes years or decades to make a past story significant, but it's significance was clearly changed and the "Return of the Antman" was born. Marvel's intent was to make the Man in the Ant-Hill a superhero, and so he was.

 

TTA #27 is the 1st appearance of Antman.

 

If it's good enough for Marvel Comics to acknowledge it, it's good enough for me! (thumbs u

First time I've heard Ant-Man called epic!

[Timely]

It's pretty clear when Marvel put out TTA #27 there was no intent at the time to turn the "Man in the Ant-Hill" into a Superhero. However, in the Marvel way of things, that character and story was turned into something epic a few months later. Usually Marvel takes years or decades to make a past story significant, but it's significance was clearly changed and the "Return of the Antman" was born. Marvel's intent was to make the Man in the Ant-Hill a superhero, and so he was.

 

TTA #27 is the 1st appearance of Antman.

 

If it's good enough for Marvel Comics to acknowledge it, it's good enough for me! (thumbs u

First time I've heard Ant-Man called epic!

 

It was epic for Henry!

[AGGIEZ]

Not only is TTA 27 Pym's 1st appearance,but the market has deemed it so.NUFF SAID!

 

Ok Mr. Hulk #180...

 

 

The Strange Adventures #180 is a perfect parallel.... http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2011/09/17/silver-age-september-animal-man-in-strange-adventures/