TTA 35 vs TTA 27

[Comicfollower101-migration]

Yes marvelcollector is right on the ASM 1 and fantasy 15, also, 35 has been increasing value for a long time. When Latino review leaked a pic of ant mans Costume in the movie, the prices sky rocketed

 

 

 

[sacentaur]

But when Pym first app in 27, there was absolutely no intention of bringing him back....

 

I don't know if this is entirely accurate - wasn't Marvel testing-the-waters with books like TTA 27 and TOS 32 ('The Man and the Beehive')?

 

The Wasp could have been a sidekick to either Ant-Man or Bee-Man.

[Comicfollower101-migration]

Well I doubt that Stan lee, Martin goodman thought that a random scientist from the dozens of science function stories will be good enough to bring him back as a super hero

[BarryAllen]

Well I doubt that Stan lee, Martin goodman thought that a random scientist from the dozens of science function stories will be good enough to bring him back as a super hero

 

They threw all kinds of at a board during that time hoping something would stick. I doubt they thought much about him versus any of Stan's other ideations.

 

In this case Hank Pym and Ant Man stuck, many others did not...

[Crimebuster]

Well I doubt that Stan lee, Martin goodman thought that a random scientist from the dozens of science function stories will be good enough to bring him back as a super hero

 

And yet, Stan Lee did in fact bring him back. So...?

[rjpb]

But when Pym first app in 27, there was absolutely no intention of bringing him back....

 

I don't know if this is entirely accurate - wasn't Marvel testing-the-waters with books like TTA 27 and TOS 32 ('The Man and the Beehive')?

 

The Wasp could have been a sidekick to either Ant-Man or Bee-Man.

 

This strikes me as urban legend. ToS 32 came out 7 months after TTA 27 and one month prior to TTA 35, and the same month as AF 15 and JIM 83. By that time Stan was committing to new superheroes, not test driving concepts in the guise of non superhero fantasy stories.

 

More like the Bee-Hive story was inspired by the Ant-hill story as Lee was hardly averse to borrowing from himself. Neither story actually has the feel of a test run for a superhero concept (hence this debate).

 

Another theory I've heard - but seen nothing to actually back it up, is that Spider-man was initially scheduled for ToS 32, but relegated to the soon to be cancelled Amazing Fantasy because Goodman was not enamored of the character.

[rjpb]

Well I doubt that Stan lee, Martin goodman thought that a random scientist from the dozens of science function stories will be good enough to bring him back as a super hero

 

And yet, Stan Lee did in fact bring him back. So...?

 

Someone posted earlier that the decision to go with the Ant-Man concept as a continuing series was likely influenced by DC's success with The Atom, which makes sense to me as to why that particular character would be brought back.

[sacentaur]

This strikes me as urban legend.

 

Quite possibly, yes - with 8 months between TTA 27 and TTA 35, one wonders how much editorial lead time was necessary before the decision to go with Ant-Man was made.

 

As prolific as Lee and Kirby were, maybe not that much...

[sacentaur]

Very interesting prior posts about the evolution of Sgt. Rock, too.

 

It took a panel of experts (see the War Correspondent article in the current Overstreet Guide) and a changing hobby perspective to finally sift through things.

 

Perhaps Ant-Man is due for the same treatment.

 

One thing not in dispute for me is that TTA 27 and TTA 35 are both *very* cool books.

[jjonahjameson1]

Very interesting prior posts about the evolution of Sgt. Rock, too.

 

It took a panel of experts (see the War Correspondent article in the current Overstreet Guide) and a changing hobby perspective to finally sift through things.

Perhaps Ant-Man is due for the same treatment.

 

One thing not in dispute for me is that TTA 27 and TTA 35 are both *very* cool books.

 

Exactly. Thanks for picking up on my initial foray into this topic. I've always believed TTA 35 to be the 1st appearance of Ant-Man, and it doesn't seem as though I'm alone in my thinking.

 

Another case to reflect upon: Strange Tales 97 contains the story " Goodbye to Linda Brown", featuring a girl in a wheelchair living with her Aunt May and Uncle Ben.

 

The story is written by Stan Lee and illustrated by Steve Ditko, the same creative team that brought you Aunt May and Uncle Ben of Spider-Man fame. Is this the 1st true appearance of Aunt May and Uncle Ben (Jan 1962) or is it Amazing Fantasy #15 (Aug 1962).

 

I can see similarities and contrasts for the above with TTA 27 and 35. There's probably other examples with other pre-hero try-outs, but I don't have the time to research them.

[sacentaur]

Reading TTA 35, it is the same named main character's "Return" within the same storyline context. TTA 35 even recaps elements from TTA 27, including the same origin retold.

 

So there is a very strong sense of continuity between the two issues, giving further credence to TTA 27.

 

Even if Marvel retrofitted Pym as a costumed superhero 8 months later in TTA 35, it still traces back to the same storyline in TTA 27 - that's where it began.

 

Which differs from Sgt. Rock - is he the "Rock " of Easy Company, is he "Sgt. Rocky", is he a main or supporting (motivational) character, why does he have varying ranks, etc., until it's finally settled on that he's Sgt. Rock.

 

For the record then, I'm sticking with TTA 27 as the first Ant-Man, but will have an open mind on the subject for the future.

[Crimebuster]

Well, that story with Aunt May and Uncle Ben wasn't referenced again when the new versions appeared in Amazing Fantasy, nor was Linda Brown mentioned. Whereas the events in TTA #27 form the foundation of the character of Hank Pym. So to me, those are apples and oranges.

 

But anyway, I mainly just wanted to add that while both of these are very cool books, the one that I think is seriously underappreciated is TTA #44. I got a solid lower grade copy not long ago for $20. For the first appearance of a founding member of the Avengers, a very early Marvel hero and someone who would become a bedrock of MU continuity, that's kind of ridiculous.

[rjpb]

Very interesting prior posts about the evolution of Sgt. Rock, too.

 

It took a panel of experts (see the War Correspondent article in the current Overstreet Guide) and a changing hobby perspective to finally sift through things.

Perhaps Ant-Man is due for the same treatment.

 

One thing not in dispute for me is that TTA 27 and TTA 35 are both *very* cool books.

 

Exactly. Thanks for picking up on my initial foray into this topic. I've always believed TTA 35 to be the 1st appearance of Ant-Man, and it doesn't seem as though I'm alone in my thinking.

 

Another case to reflect upon: Strange Tales 97 contains the story " Goodbye to Linda Brown", featuring a girl in a wheelchair living with her Aunt May and Uncle Ben.

 

The story is written by Stan Lee and illustrated by Steve Ditko, the same creative team that brought you Aunt May and Uncle Ben of Spider-Man fame. Is this the 1st true appearance of Aunt May and Uncle Ben (Jan 1962) or is it Amazing Fantasy #15 (Aug 1962).

 

I can see similarities and contrasts for the above with TTA 27 and 35. There's probably other examples with other pre-hero try-outs, but I don't have the time to research them.

 

Until Marvel retcons Lori Lemaris Linda Brown as Peter Parker's mermaid cousin, this is not the same couple. I doubt Lee was even conscious that he was reusing the names, and Ditko just fell into drawing a standard "old woman" ( the two Bens look somewhat different), just as Peter Parker looked a lot like the mutant, Tad Carter, from "The Man in the Sky" from Amazing Adult Fantasy #14.

 

I'd love to see Marvel compile all the pre-hero prototype, prior name use and early mutant stories into one Omnibus edition, throw in stories of characters like Groot and Gorilla Man, who were later integrated into the Marvel Universe as well.

[bronze johnny]

Ant-Man deserving the same treatment as Sgt. Rock? There is no comparison between the issue as to which TTA is the first appearance of Antman and the evolutionary development of Sgt. Rock. The series of prototypical issues leading up to the Rock's first true appearance is more complicated than the question that is raised here concerning Antman's 1st appearance.

 

It's funny how advocates for 35 will take a "textual" interpretation of TTA 27, claiming that Hank Pym is not the Antman but the "Man in the Ant Hill." However, a textual interpretation of TTA 35 is inapplicable since "The Return of the Antman" is not to be taken in the literal sense. How selective we are when it comes to interpretation and how we apply those interpretations to fit into an argument that meets the outcome we want.

[Mike's Rack]

It's funny how advocates for 35 will take a "textual" interpretation of TTA 27, claiming that Hank Pym is not the Antman but the "Man in the Ant Hill." However, a textual interpretation of TTA 35 is inapplicable since "The Return of the Antman" is not to be taken in the literal sense. How selective we are when it comes to interpretation and how we apply those interpretations to fit into an argument that meets the outcome we want.

Indeed, this feels like the Southern Baptist convention or a meeting of the John Birch Society. Only this debate is a lot more interesting (thumbs u

[Bronty]

Ant-Man deserving the same treatment as Sgt. Rock? There is no comparison between the issue as to which TTA is the first appearance of Antman and the evolutionary development of Sgt. Rock. The series of prototypical issues leading up to the Rock's first true appearance is more complicated than the question that is raised here concerning Antman's 1st appearance.

 

It's funny how advocates for 35 will take a "textual" interpretation of TTA 27, claiming that Hank Pym is not the Antman but the "Man in the Ant Hill." However, a textual interpretation of TTA 35 is inapplicable since "The Return of the Antman" is not to be taken in the literal sense. How selective we are when it comes to interpretation and how we apply those interpretations to fit into an argument that meets the outcome we want.

 

Regardless of one's position on this debate, I don't think the reasons for that sort of thinking are sinister or even "convenient." If it seems like the logic is being made up as people go, that's simply a byproduct of the fact that marvel themselves clearly made it up as they went.

 

As a result there are logical inconsistencies no matter which side of the debate you are on. Those ambiguities and inconsistencies are why this thread is as long as it is.

[bronze johnny]

You're right and let me add that it's a fun thread where we talk about ants and no uncles (thumbs u

[Bronty]

hehehe yessir

[oakman29]

I hate "this vs. that" threads.

[ChicksCosmiComics]

Tastes Great....Less Filling