TTA 35 vs TTA 27

[bronze johnny]

35 is the "Return of the Antman." I welcome attempts at historical revisionism but to say that 27 is not the first appearance of the Antman denies his return in 35. Something or someone must have a defined prior existence/place to return from. Stan and company specifically note the Antman's return on the cover of 35. The idea that while "The Return of Antman" was not a "return" since there was nothing to "return from" as has been argued here is ridiculous. The semantic attempts to re-define Ant-Man's return as not a return has not been established. And the idea that 27 could also be the first appearance of Giant Man and Yellowjacket is so absurd, it's hilarious. This is a interesting and fun thread, nevertheless.

[Boboset]

Silliness. TTA#27 has the character using his "powers". It is the real first appearance.

 

DG

 

 

I totally disagree. If you read 27 it's clear it's a straight up monster story. 35 retconned 27 into being a first appearance. 35 is the more significant book IMO by far

 

 

 

Bronty said it best.

[BarryAllen]

TTA27 - introduces the character: Dr. Henry Pym (first appearance).

 

TTA35 - introduces an alter-ego of an already created character: Dr. Henry Pym becomes Ant Man (also first appearance).

 

One cannot exist without the other.

 

 

 

 

 

35 is a cooler book, but 27 is a bigger key. You cannot have 35's version of Ant Man without 27's establishment of Dr. Henry Pym.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Solution: buy both books and display them together!

[gaz973]

Good grief, it's not that complicated.

 

TTA # 27 = the 1st appearance of the character Hank Pym

 

TTA # 35 = the 1st appearance of Hank Pym as Ant Man

 

Both are keys, which is the biggest key is down to opinion. Personally I think # 27 is the bigger key and # 35 is the cooler book but as I said, there is no right or wrong answer because it's opinion based.

 

There was no retcon regarding # 27. they used an already existing character and expanded on him just like any other story with a returning character.

[Darth Corgi]

It's gotta be TTA 27.

 

Introduction of the character, his real name and origin, plus he's on the cover. TTA 35 is simply an expansion of 27 involving a costume and a title. It all starts in TTA 27.

 

Even though they are all separate books, I look at all the issues as one big story which begins with 27.

[jjonahjameson1]

It's gotta be TTA 27.

 

Introduction of the character, his real name and origin, plus he's on the cover. TTA 35 is simply an expansion of 27 involving a costume and a title. It all starts in TTA 27.

 

Even though they are all separate books, I look at all the issues as one big story which begins with 27.

 

Yeah, the 1st Ant-Man is a bit of a debate, but nowhere near as difficult as determining the 1st appearance of Sgt Rock. For a while, one book was designated his 1st appearance, then deemed a prototype, then another book was deemed his 1st appearance, etc. The there was a debate about which book was the 1st Sgt Rock(y) prototype and that's when I checked out.

[Mxwll Smrt]

It's gotta be TTA 27.

 

Introduction of the character, his real name and origin, plus he's on the cover. TTA 35 is simply an expansion of 27 involving a costume and a title. It all starts in TTA 27.

 

Even though they are all separate books, I look at all the issues as one big story which begins with 27.

 

Yeah, the 1st Ant-Man is a bit of a debate, but nowhere near as difficult as determining the 1st appearance of Sgt Rock. For a while, one book was designated his 1st appearance, then deemed a prototype, then another book was deemed his 1st appearance, etc. The there was a debate about which book was the 1st Sgt Rock(y) prototype and that's when I checked out.

 

G.I. Combat 68 or Our Army at War 81?

[spidrvacc]

Good grief, it's not that complicated.

 

TTA # 27 = the 1st appearance of the character Hank Pym

 

TTA # 35 = the 1st appearance of Hank Pym as Ant Man

 

Both are keys, which is the biggest key is down to opinion. Personally I think # 27 is the bigger key and # 35 is the cooler book but as I said, there is no right or wrong answer because it's opinion based.

 

There was no retcon regarding # 27. they used an already existing character and expanded on him just like any other story with a returning character.

 

 

The above is exactly how I feel. 27 is first hank Pym not Ant Man . Would be like saying since Flash Thompson is the new Venom that Venoms 1st app is AF15 since thats Flash's first app.

 

27 is first H Pym and 35 is first Ant Man and both books are keys and 27 might be more key due to Hank being a bunch of different heroes.

But both are major keys. 27 used to be major and 35 minor but seems that 35 has become Major and if you collect Marvel keys its a book to get now.

 

I had the choose which book to get first and it was 35 but got 27 at a later date. 35 the cooler book personally since I like AntMan.

[gadzukes]

Perhaps one way to look at it would be.... In what issue does a regular person attain "superhero" abilities or powers?

 

Since Hank Pym gets the ability to shrink in TTA 27, in essence he becomes the Antman right then.

 

I think both issues are Major keys. I'm glad that TTA35 is getting a lot more attention now (as it should).

 

As we get closer to the movie, I think you'll see TTA 35 grow at a faster percentage than TTA 27, because it's been undervalued as more of a minor key for years.

[Comicfollower101-migration]

But when Pym first app in 27, there was absolutely no intention of bringing him back, he was just another random scientist in the hundreds of science fiction stories produced, 35 pretty much re-introduced him as a superhero. In fact, if u read 27, the character personality and the way he is portrayed is much different than in 35 where Lee makes him more of a super hero quality

[jjonahjameson1]

It's gotta be TTA 27.

 

Introduction of the character, his real name and origin, plus he's on the cover. TTA 35 is simply an expansion of 27 involving a costume and a title. It all starts in TTA 27.

 

Even though they are all separate books, I look at all the issues as one big story which begins with 27.

 

Yeah, the 1st Ant-Man is a bit of a debate, but nowhere near as difficult as determining the 1st appearance of Sgt Rock. For a while, one book was designated his 1st appearance, then deemed a prototype, then another book was deemed his 1st appearance, etc. The there was a debate about which book was the 1st Sgt Rock(y) prototype and that's when I checked out.

 

G.I. Combat 68 or Our Army at War 81?

 

Yes, and before that, All-American Men of War #28

[AGGIEZ]

Good grief, it's not that complicated.

 

TTA # 27 = the 1st appearance of the character Hank Pym

 

TTA # 35 = the 1st appearance of Hank Pym as Ant Man

 

 

Agree. I think if this were reflected in the CGC labels we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

Instead, TTA#35 reads "Origin and 2nd appearance of Ant-Man, 1st appearance of Ant-Man in costume"...thus the thread.

 

 

[rjpb]

Would be like saying since Flash Thompson is the new Venom that Venoms 1st app is AF15 since thats Flash's first app.

 

While this thread is proof that there can be an honest debate as to which issue is really the first Ant-Man appearance, and wether or not TTA 27 is just a "prequel" if you will, comparisons like the one above are ridiculous and give no respect to the difference between the genesis of a superhero ( or villain) and the appearance of a character who would later become one.

 

If in TTA 27, Henry Pym had merely used his shrinking potion to shrink an alien invasion force down to a size where they were scared off by "giant" ants ( a plausible pre-hero scenario), then such comparisons would have some validity, but as it is Pym's adventure is a direct catalyst for his decision to become Ant-Man and an integral part of the character's origin.

 

At the end of the day, I imagine even the most ardent TTA 27 detractor would still want a copy for an Ant-Man or complete SA Marvel hero collection, whereas no Venom collector is going to feel incomplete without an AF 15 ( they might covet it for the more obvious reason, but not for the Flash Thompson appearance).

[bronze johnny]

This place would be very boring if we all agreed on the same things.

[jjonahjameson1]

This place would be very boring if we all agreed on the same things.

 

I disagree!

 

[spidrvacc]

Would be like saying since Flash Thompson is the new Venom that Venoms 1st app is AF15 since thats Flash's first app.

 

While this thread is proof that there can be an honest debate as to which issue is really the first Ant-Man appearance, and wether or not TTA 27 is just a "prequel" if you will, comparisons like the one above are ridiculous and give no respect to the difference between the genesis of a superhero ( or villain) and the appearance of a character who would later become one.

 

If in TTA 27, Henry Pym had merely used his shrinking potion to shrink an alien invasion force down to a size where they were scared off by "giant" ants ( a plausible pre-hero scenario), then such comparisons would have some validity, but as it is Pym's adventure is a direct catalyst for his decision to become Ant-Man and an integral part of the character's origin.

 

At the end of the day, I imagine even the most ardent TTA 27 detractor would still want a copy for an Ant-Man or complete SA Marvel hero collection, whereas no Venom collector is going to feel incomplete without an AF 15 ( they might covet it for the more obvious reason, but not for the Flash Thompson appearance).

 

I was stretching it a bit for that. I agree . Was just trying to make a point.

 

Should have used the first app of War machine. Better example. War machines first app is Iron Man 282 and its after the first app of James Rhoades in Iron man 118. Thats a better example. War machines 1st APP is when the costume is on not the first app of the person who becomes war machine.

 

Rhodes = IM 118 and War machine = IM 282

 

27 = Pym and 35 = Ant man.

[rjpb]

Good grief, it's not that complicated.

 

TTA # 27 = the 1st appearance of the character Hank Pym

 

TTA # 35 = the 1st appearance of Hank Pym as Ant Man

 

 

Agree. I think if this were reflected in the CGC labels we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

Instead, TTA#35 reads "Origin and 2nd appearance of Ant-Man, 1st appearance of Ant-Man in costume"...thus the thread.

 

 

If CGC labeling decided debates, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

perhaps it should be:

 

 

TTA # 27 = the 1st appearance of Henry Pym, origin of Ant-Man

 

TTA # 35 = the 1st appearance of Ant Man for the more literally minded

 

 

[Comicfollower101-migration]

Exactly, idk what all the fuss is about.

[rjpb]

Would be like saying since Flash Thompson is the new Venom that Venoms 1st app is AF15 since thats Flash's first app.

 

While this thread is proof that there can be an honest debate as to which issue is really the first Ant-Man appearance, and wether or not TTA 27 is just a "prequel" if you will, comparisons like the one above are ridiculous and give no respect to the difference between the genesis of a superhero ( or villain) and the appearance of a character who would later become one.

 

If in TTA 27, Henry Pym had merely used his shrinking potion to shrink an alien invasion force down to a size where they were scared off by "giant" ants ( a plausible pre-hero scenario), then such comparisons would have some validity, but as it is Pym's adventure is a direct catalyst for his decision to become Ant-Man and an integral part of the character's origin.

 

At the end of the day, I imagine even the most ardent TTA 27 detractor would still want a copy for an Ant-Man or complete SA Marvel hero collection, whereas no Venom collector is going to feel incomplete without an AF 15 ( they might covet it for the more obvious reason, but not for the Flash Thompson appearance).

 

I was stretching it a bit for that. I agree . Was just trying to make a point.

 

Should have used the first app of War machine. Better example. War machines first app is Iron Man 282 and its after the first app of James Rhoades in Iron man 118. Thats a better example. War machines 1st APP is when the costume is on not the first app of the person who becomes war machine.

 

Rhodes = IM 118 and War machine = IM 282

 

27 = Pym and 35 = Ant man.

 

Probably a more accurate comparison would be IM 170 and IM 282, Rhodes donning the Iron Man armor as the genesis of War Machine, bit even this is an imperfect comparison, as the temporal relationship in terms of continuity has to be considered.

 

If Rhodes had donned the Iron Man armor once, and then in his very next appearance acquired the War Machine armor, collectors would generally feel that the first Rhodes as Iron man was the origin of War Machine.

[marvelcollector]

I think both issues are Major keys. I'm glad that TTA35 is getting a lot more attention now (as it should).

 

As we get closer to the movie, I think you'll see TTA 35 grow at a faster percentage than TTA 27, because it's been undervalued as more of a minor key for years.

 

Perceptions and collectors' attitudes do change. There was a time when ASM 1 and AF 15 were very close in value.

 

Could be TTA 35 closes the gap significantly with 27 in the intermediate term...

 

(This is the best thread on the boards right now btw IMO....)