Manifest Destiny - Skybound - Chris Dingess, Matthew Roberts 1 1

[the authority]

Yes there is speculation on this book. There is speculation on nearly every new independent book. No debate there.

 

But, as relating to the person who bought all of a shop's copies of a 4th printing, if no one wants a 4th printing, then he can't sell them no matter how high he shills auctions for them.

 

Similar to the original printings: if they were all bought by speculators or hoarders, and the story sucked, or no one cared, those buyers would be stuck with unsold stock. However, that does not appear to be the case.

 

no one has claimed any of the things you are posing counter arguments too...

 

all the fuss was over whether a person is allowed to question if an auction might be tainted, some people feel that should be stopped at all costs, others favor free speech.

 

What reasons they have for their positions....only they can say.

 

I do find it amusing all the hoarding talk yet no admittance that the inflated prices may be due to speculation

 

Went to my LCS and was told that 1 guy bought all 4 copies of their #1 4th print...I'm far from convinced the recent heat is solely due to this being such a good read.I think people know the print runs are small so they are loading up. Again, just my opinion.

 

Your point?

 

I think the price hike is fueled by speculation. CBT has been talking about possible shilling. Different subjects.

 

I think every book is fueled by speculation. People don't buy thinking they can buy cheaper later do they ? The book is hot no matter the reason. Enjoy the ride. I've given 4 Ottleys to fellow boardies in the last couple of weeks knowing its going up. Its a solid story and I believe a bunch of people missed it, plain and simple. I don't believe the book is being shilled. No small group of people is driving that many sales for something this inexpensive. Gordon Gecko is not involved imo.

[manetteska]

 

Your point?

 

I think the price hike is fueled by speculation. CBT has been talking about possible shilling. Different subjects.

 

My point was that my response was to your speculation comment, not to CBT's shilling conspiracy. I agree -- different subjects.

 

The prices seen in the secondary market are due to supply and demand. People want it and there are not a lot for sale -- either in a store or on the internet. Speculation may play a part in that, but when all is said and done, if no one wants a product, the price does not go up. Reasons for wanting a product -- any product -- are varied and numerous. To say it is all speculation is ignorant.

[manetteska]

And I have no idea why I keep writing all of this, or caring at all. No amount of back-and-forth here is going to change opinions or prices or how good or bad the actual comic is.

 

I'm just tired of seeing the same raining on parades over and over again without anything to back it up.

 

Now that the auction under fire and the "fake" bidder has come forward as a member and a non-fake bidder, that talk has died down considerably. Come in, trump up some charges, have them proved false, and ignore them.

 

 

Anyway, back to the comic: those are some nice-looking horses.

[CBT]

 

Your point?

 

I think the price hike is fueled by speculation. CBT has been talking about possible shilling. Different subjects.

 

My point was that my response was to your speculation comment, not to CBT's shilling conspiracy FACT.

 

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&rt=nc&item=171227910896

 

That's a shilled auction whether you like it or not

 

[krighton]

Seller of that auction said he didnt get paid.....so what's the meaning of shilling it....guy bidding was just being a person_too_unaware_of_social_graces

Edited March 6, 2014 by krighton

[jjeanius]

Seller of that auction said he didnt get paid.....so what's the meaning of shilling it....guy bidding was just being a person_too_unaware_of_social_graces

 

"I didn't get paid" is commonly the explanation given when a seller ends up winning their own auction. And, hey, now there's a completed auction at $355 to point to on eBay and GPA! Mission accomplished!

 

[the420kid]

back on topic with Bob

 

[CBT]

Seller of that auction said he didnt get paid.....so what's the meaning of shilling it....guy bidding was just being a person_too_unaware_of_social_graces

 

"I didn't get paid" is commonly the explanation given when a seller ends up winning their own auction. And, hey, now there's a completed auction at $355 to point to on eBay and GPA! Mission accomplished!

 

yup, and it doesnt even have to be the sellers fault. It can be guys holding a ton themselves, shilling up somebody else's book, so they can then sell theirs at inflated prices. Often the seller is a victim too.

[jaybes]

 

Your point?

 

I think the price hike is fueled by speculation. CBT has been talking about possible shilling. Different subjects.

 

My point was that my response was to your speculation comment, not to CBT's shilling conspiracy. I agree -- different subjects.

 

The prices seen in the secondary market are due to supply and demand. People want it and there are not a lot for sale -- either in a store or on the internet. Speculation may play a part in that, but when all is said and done, if no one wants a product, the price does not go up. Reasons for wanting a product -- any product -- are varied and numerous. To say it is all speculation is ignorant.

 

I completely understand there's demand for the book. But I have my doubts that the supply is spread out. By speculation I mean there are less people in possession and they possess more than average quantities, therefore making it easier to drive a price increase. I chimed in on this thread regarding the initial price spike, that I was skeptical it was solely driven by the quality of the book. Im still skeptical, especially when I see people hoarding stacks of additional prints. I think there's definitely a snow ball affect. And I do think there's an element of sellers buying copies to resell because of the snow ball affect. How much of that is going on is impossible to say obviously.

 

I'm also swayed by situational bias, because I don't think the book is that great. Awesome art, rough dialogue. But I digress. Let's all wish it well and hopefully minimize the backhanded comments, because no one truly knows what's driving the price increases. We all have our opinions, but no one actually knows.

 

 

[krighton]

Isn't the whole idea of shilling to make people believe a comic sold for a certain price...,,wouldn't it have been better for him to say he got the money....

[Sam I am]

Isn't the whole idea of shilling to make people believe a comic sold for a certain price...,,wouldn't it have been better for him to say he got the money....

 

I always understood shilling, as the shady way for the seller to find out the maximum bid offer by the highest legitimate bidder, then after auction close, they offer the book back to the real bidder at their maximum purchase price in a second chance offer.

 

[the authority]

That could be. I've never accepted or sent a second chance offer for that reason.

[darkstar]

Isn't the whole idea of shilling to make people believe a comic sold for a certain price...,,wouldn't it have been better for him to say he got the money....

 

You know shill bidders also bid up listings where they don't know the seller, right? Where the shill bidder has the same book for sale and bids up the price on the other listings to convince the market that his copy is worth the listing price or to make it the cheapest available copy by bidding up all the others?

 

The seller isn't always involved in the shilling, it is oftentimes done by other sellers with the same item for sale or at least in their inventory.

Edited March 7, 2014 by darkstar

[Mike's Rack]

Isn't the whole idea of shilling to make people believe a comic sold for a certain price...,,wouldn't it have been better for him to say he got the money....

 

You know shill bidders also bid up listings where they don't know the seller, right? Where the shill bidder has the same book for sale and bids up the price on the other listings to convince the market that his copy is worth the listing price or to make it the cheapest available copy by bidding up all the others?

 

The seller isn't always involved in the shilling, it is oftentimes done by other sellers with the same item for sale or at least in their inventory.

Truth, there is more than one type of shill. A couple years back, someone was bidding up NM 98's on ebay and backing out of the sales. Many people knew it was happening but it helped drive the price up and fueled the firestorm for that book. This is much easier to do with a low print book. I'm not saying it's happening, just be prudent for goodness sake.

[the authority]

Still on fire.

 

Both #1s $49.99 sold to 3 different people and quick.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MANIFEST-DESTINY-1-REGULAR-VARIANT-COVERS-SOLD-OUT-FIRST-PRINT-/271382685274?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item3f2fab265a

 

Same deal @ $59.99

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MANIFEST-DESTINY-1-REGULAR-AND-OTTLEY-VARIANT-SET-IMAGE-SKYBOUND-1ST-PRINTS-NM-/310888224420?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item486261d6a4

 

2 sets of 1 reg cover,2,3,4 @ $44.95 each.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MANIFEST-DESTINY-1-2-3-4-IMAGE-DINGESS-ROBERTS-GIENI-SOLD-OUT-HTF-1ST-PRINT-/201046372880?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item2ecf4c3210

 

in the words of Dan Patrick, en fuego.

[Vikingreed]

I think everyone is paranoid as all hell...

 

Don't buyers decide for themselves a value for an item?

The old "something is only worth what someone will pay for it"?

 

If a book gets shilled up over 3x what it has ever gone for before, I think it is shame on the buyer if they pay over market based on one or two prior auctions.

 

Maybe I just do not understand what everyone is getting into an uproar about...

 

 

[Mike's Rack]

I'm sorry did my post sound as if I am in an uproar? Are you saying shipping is not a bad thing? I'm not being snarky and I don't have strong feelings on this book other than I have 9 copies of the LBCC and I want to see it go up.

[the authority]

I think we all take a stance early on about new books that come out. It makes perfect sense to me that if you bought a book and liked it that you might invest in it. I tend to believe if you thought it was well above average, you would buy more thinking that other like minded people would also like it once they read it.

 

On the other hand, if you didn't order it or especially if you read it and didn't like it, you might be surprised that other people do and are even more surprised that people are willing to pay extra to own it.

 

It is no fun being on the wrong end of the prediction no matter which camp you fall in but it happens to everybody some of the time.

[the authority]

I'm sorry did my post sound as if I am in an uproar? Are you saying shipping is not a bad thing? I'm not being snarky and I don't have strong feelings on this book other than I have 9 copies of the LBCC and I want to see it go up.

 

9 copies ? You nailed it !

[Vikingreed]

My post was aimed at all the schilling talk, not you, good sir.