Criteria for becoming an Overstreet Advisor?

[Arkham]

this thread reminded me I still need to go out and GET the new OSPG

 

hahaha... me too. I just ordered on BookDepository - even though they won't have stock for a week apparently. But it saved me $15 on the cover price from brick and mortar's.

 

I also ordered the "overstreet guide to collecting comics" just for *spoons* and *forks*... hope it's an interesting read!

[Brock]

Hello all -

 

Maybe I can shed a little light... I've been an advisor for just a couple of years. One of the existing advisors noted a knowledge gap/weakness among advisors in a specific area, and I sent a note to Overstreet volunteering to help fill it. They gave me a shot at filing a market report for a year, and it seemed to go well, so now I'm in each year (though they haven't told me about the banana hammock part yet...).

 

I am a collector, rather than a dealer, so I've never advertised, or paid to be in the Guide. Like some others above, I try to do some good research, and offer what I can... Some of this gets reflected in the Guide, some doesn't - but that makes sense, as the Guide is a reflection of averages and widespread trends, rather than individual sales or perspectives.

 

As far as I can tell, as long as you keep making contributions, you can remain as an advisor.

 

There is no compensation, but we do get a complimentary paperback copy of the Guide, and occasionally of other Gemstone publications.

 

For those who are interested, I would say that there's probably room for more advisors - I'm sure you can make a pitch anytime, but it likely helps to suggest an area or approach that brings something unique (or at least under-represented) to the table.

 

And in terms of my own role as an advisor, I'm always happy to get feedback about my own market report (pages 89-91 this year), and your thoughts about what I can do to make it stronger.

[dgarthwaite-migration]

Criteria is fairly simple. Have knowledge about comics history, market, and trends + plus a point of view you can articulate, and you have a shot at being included. Having someone nominate you can also increase your chances of approval.

 

I think you have the most accurate answer. One of my friends was/is(?) an adviser.

 

I think you get offered a Leatherbound copy if you are an adviser. Not sure, but my friend had some.

 

Other than that, being an adviser doesn't necessarily mean they listen to anything that you say. Advisers point out errors that never get fixed.

 

DG

 

First rule of being an advisor. Don't talk about being an advisor.

 

Actually Gemstone no longer produces leather bound editions and they haven't in years. Secondly, advisors don't have to buy ads in the guide. I haven't in years. In regards to submitting data I did so prior to working for Gemstone Publishing and have continued to do so as of the latest edition of the Guide. Do they use all the data supplied? I can say that things get over looked at times. I've submitted data that has never been included. Overall, they do a decent job of trying to keep on top of what has become a 24/7 market. An online functional website would remedy some of this. I'd suggest contacting JC Vaughn with your thoughts and input for the Guide.

 

I honestly consider the guide to be irrelevant. It excludes underground comics, B&W Comics, small publishers etc. If I'm going to have to look elsewhere for price data, I will.

 

No source for the data is perfect, but I just go to comicspriceguide.com since they at least attempt to be a comprehensive source of information.

 

Overstreet became useless to me when they would list a comic for $5 in the guide and you'd be lucky if you could get it for under $90 in the market. People can debate whether Overstreet should or shouldn't react to current market surges, but in the end the price needs to be relevant to what I should expect to pay.

 

I can't help but laugh when I see a market report talking about how hot something is and how well it's selling at high prices. I go look at the pricing section and it's listed as cover price. They should at least read the market reports to make sure there is no conflict to the price data they are publishing.

 

DG

[DamageInc-migration]

Criteria is fairly simple. Have knowledge about comics history, market, and trends + plus a point of view you can articulate, and you have a shot at being included. Having someone nominate you can also increase your chances of approval.

 

I think you have the most accurate answer. One of my friends was/is(?) an adviser.

 

I think you get offered a Leatherbound copy if you are an adviser. Not sure, but my friend had some.

 

Other than that, being an adviser doesn't necessarily mean they listen to anything that you say. Advisers point out errors that never get fixed.

 

DG

 

First rule of being an advisor. Don't talk about being an advisor.

 

Actually Gemstone no longer produces leather bound editions and they haven't in years. Secondly, advisors don't have to buy ads in the guide. I haven't in years. In regards to submitting data I did so prior to working for Gemstone Publishing and have continued to do so as of the latest edition of the Guide. Do they use all the data supplied? I can say that things get over looked at times. I've submitted data that has never been included. Overall, they do a decent job of trying to keep on top of what has become a 24/7 market. An online functional website would remedy some of this. I'd suggest contacting JC Vaughn with your thoughts and input for the Guide.

 

And this is coming from a guy who left Overstreet for CPG.com. If that doesn't get you booted as an advisor, I think it's safe to say that the conspiracy theories are wrong.

[Mister_Comics]

I was a Advisor for several of the early issues of OS.

 

I use to send info on comics that were not listed and let them know of corrections that were missed. I gave up doing this when they quite acknowledging me and didn't use the info I was sending in. To this day I have found many books that are not listed. Maybe one day I'll try again. But to me it seems they are not interested in additional books and corrections that should be made.

 

And I never had a add in the guide. I'm just a collector thats been around a long time.

[Mister_Comics]

Is the secret password "banana hammock?"

No... but that's all you're allowed to wear at the secret meetings.

 

You have to know the secret hand signal. (see my avatar for clue)

[comicwiz]

Criteria is fairly simple. Have knowledge about comics history, market, and trends + plus a point of view you can articulate, and you have a shot at being included. Having someone nominate you can also increase your chances of approval.

 

I think you have the most accurate answer. One of my friends was/is(?) an adviser.

 

I think you get offered a Leatherbound copy if you are an adviser. Not sure, but my friend had some.

 

Other than that, being an adviser doesn't necessarily mean they listen to anything that you say. Advisers point out errors that never get fixed.

 

DG

 

First rule of being an advisor. Don't talk about being an advisor.

 

Actually Gemstone no longer produces leather bound editions and they haven't in years. Secondly, advisors don't have to buy ads in the guide. I haven't in years. In regards to submitting data I did so prior to working for Gemstone Publishing and have continued to do so as of the latest edition of the Guide. Do they use all the data supplied? I can say that things get over looked at times. I've submitted data that has never been included. Overall, they do a decent job of trying to keep on top of what has become a 24/7 market. An online functional website would remedy some of this. I'd suggest contacting JC Vaughn with your thoughts and input for the Guide.

 

I honestly consider the guide to be irrelevant. It excludes underground comics, B&W Comics, small publishers etc. If I'm going to have to look elsewhere for price data, I will.

 

No source for the data is perfect, but I just go to comicspriceguide.com since they at least attempt to be a comprehensive source of information.

 

Overstreet became useless to me when they would list a comic for $5 in the guide and you'd be lucky if you could get it for under $90 in the market. People can debate whether Overstreet should or shouldn't react to current market surges, but in the end the price needs to be relevant to what I should expect to pay.

 

I can't help but laugh when I see a market report talking about how hot something is and how well it's selling at high prices. I go look at the pricing section and it's listed as cover price. They should at least read the market reports to make sure there is no conflict to the price data they are publishing.

 

DG

 

Loads of talking points here. I apologize in advance if I'm cherry-picking through your comment to expand on subjects that are of great interest to me.

 

On the point about undergrounds being excluded, I will say right out of the gate, this is one aspect which I myself really didn't clearly understand when I first became a member on these boards.

 

For people who don't know my history, one of my areas of specialty is underground comix. Around the time the idea seeded for HippyComix' Dan Fogel (who is also an Overstreet advisor) to publish the Fogel Underground Guide (FUGG), one of the challenges was figuring out how to bridge Jay Kennedy's incredible body of work from 1982 (Underground and New Wave Comix Price Guide).

 

In a few words, what makes Jay's 1982 guide so useful, despite having pricing data that was already over 20 years out of date when I first began focusing on UG's, is its research which differentiates between printings.

 

As a founding advisor to the FUGG, reserving recognition that a current guide could neither substitute or replace Jay's important work, I believe one of the more significant areas of influence and input I could provide Dan was to approach the FUGG as a supplement to Jay's guide. And in no way do I mean to minimize FUGG's relevance by suggesting that it needed to stick mainly with reporting current pricing, because one of the more complicated aspects of buying/selling underground comix is not having enough consistent or regular transactions to mine online data points and/or current sales information.

 

Keep also in mind that the late, great Jerry Weist attempted something like what I'm describing through his Comic Art Price Guide. As much as I respect and appreciate Jerry's monumental contributions in the hobby, the CAPG was perhaps too ambitious in its attempt to include UG's, and lacked the breadth to adequately bridge the time and research gaps created by Jay's 1982 guide.

 

For the most part, the FUGG accomplished all this, and adequately filled that need where other projects fell short (btw: there is an expanded edition which is slated for this summer). The FUGG, and the successes it has achieved since the first guide rolled out in 2006, was also the turning point for me, and where I did a complete 360 when it came to my opinion on excluding UG's from Overstreet.

 

That is, that it is best that Overstreet excluded underground comix. Again, no knock against them because I'm a supporter of Overstreet and find it to be an indispensable resource. And regardless of what side of the debate you're on as far as who "ought" to have covered UG's, as a long-time collector and fan of UG's, the most you could hope is for a body of work to promote and cover UG's in a positive way, and I truly believe the FUGG has demonstrated a commitment which achieves this, and am glad to have had an opportunity to be an early part of it.

[sacentaur]

I know of a couple of errors that have been in the guide for as long as I can remember.

 

Back in the day, it was rumored that Overstreet retained some red herrings in the Guide as a form of copyright protection.

 

I've sent in some data in the past, and some of it (Centaurs) was published and some was not (for whatever reason).

[comicwiz]

I know of a couple of errors that have been in the guide for as long as I can remember.

 

Back in the day, it was rumored that Overstreet retained some red herrings in the Guide as a form of copyright protection.

 

This is not an uncommon thing to hear with price guide references. The Tomart Price Guide for Star Wars did this and actually busted someone when they lifted everything including their errors. Jay Kennedy did the exact same thing, and it's briefly mentioned on the ugcomix.info site in this interview (cntrl-F and search "interview" to find it on the page). Here's an excerpt from that interview:

 

JK- I SUPPOSE I AM OF MIXED EMOTIONS HERE. I DID ALL THAT RESEARCH ON PRINTING DISTINCTIONS, MAKING TRIPS TO THE PUBLISHERS EARLY ON, GOING THROUGH

THEIR PRINTING INVOICES, TRAVELING TO DOZENS OF COLLECTORS HOUSE TO COMPARE COPIES, WORKING 60 HOUR WEEKS FOR 14 MONTHS AND AT LEAST AN EQUAL AMOUNT OF TIME IN THE 20 YEARS SINCE.

IF SOMEONE ELSE DUPLICATES THE RESEARCH THEMSELVES, FINE. WHEN IT IS LIFTED FROM MY WORK, ESPECIALLY IN SIGNIFICANT SIZED CHUNKS, IT DOES

BOTHER ME. ONE PERSON PUBLISHED AN ENTIRE BOOK SIMPLY COPYING THE ARTIST CREDIT INFORMATION FROM MY GUIDE. THAT'S JUST THEFT TO ME AND I STARTED TO

SUE. WE REACHED AN OUT OF COURT SETTLEMENT. HE EVEN COPIED MY MISTAKES WHICH MADE IT EASY TO ESTABLISH THAT HE HADN'T DONE INDEPENDENT RESEARCH. YOU'RE NOT PROFITING OFF OF YOUR EFFORT AND I UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS A LABOR OF LOVE, SO IT DOESN'T ME OFF, BUT I HOPE YOU WOULD TAKE IT DOWN IF IT GOT TO THE POINT THAT I FELT IT WAS HURTING MY ABILITY TO EARN BACK THE MONEY

I'VE SPENT ON THE UNDERGROUND COMIX GUIDE.

[Deucedriver]

Thanks for the info comicwiz. There is so much out there and everyday it gets more difficult to have one single reference for it all. In the latest edition of the Comic Art Price Guide the late Jerry Weist did cut out most of what you said and credited the already existing works on undergrounds, etc. His comments really spoke the difficulty of having a comprehensive price guide or reference book for the entire comic book hobby (comics, undergrounds, art +).

 

An online functional website would remedy some of this

From a earlier post - how nice that would be!

[comicwiz]

I was wondering whether we should have "CGC Board Advisors?"

 

The depth of knowledge and combined experience that comes from contributors who either generally cover or specialize in particular areas of collecting, is what makes the advisor model work so well for Overstreet.

 

Following this line of thinking, and not to take anything away from your idea as I believe it to be of benefit to collectors, generally speaking, I think your idea would work better if you created a topic thread like "Ask an advisor."

 

The benefit would be that you would be tapping into a knowledge base comprised of a healthy number of people on these boards who are OS advisors, as well as community members who have spent years doing their own independent research. And in cases where people aren't posting as much, or it's a niche area, I'm certain someone would be able to point that inquiry in the direction of an advisor that might appreciate the referral.

 

I've had a few people ask via PM for such a thread to ask about vintage toys, and the way I see it, as long as it doesn't become a thread where people are using it solely to ask for pricing information, then it becomes a nice way to enable technology and collecting knowledge for community good.

[G.A.tor]

Thanks for the info comicwiz.

An online functional website would remedy some of this

From a earlier post - how nice that would be!

I spoke to bob in great detail about this 2 years ago but unfortunately he told me in no uncertain terms that ospg would "never" be an online guide or have an online version. It's "his" guide and be made it clear to me he would not publish it any other way.

[DamageInc-migration]

Thanks for the info comicwiz.

An online functional website would remedy some of this

From a earlier post - how nice that would be!

I spoke to bob in great detail about this 2 years ago but unfortunately he told me in no uncertain terms that ospg would "never" be an online guide or have an online version. It's "his" guide and be made it clear to me he would not publish it any other way.

 

That's one reason I was happy that Tom Gordon left Overstreet for CPG. I think he can help make it into a real online guide, as it's been a bit of a joke since it started.

[BarryAllen]

Thanks for the info comicwiz.

An online functional website would remedy some of this

From a earlier post - how nice that would be!

I spoke to bob in great detail about this 2 years ago but unfortunately he told me in no uncertain terms that ospg would "never" be an online guide or have an online version. It's "his" guide and be made it clear to me he would not publish it any other way.

 

Glad to know that influential people (in the comic world) are in-touch with the times...

 

Probably wouldn't do much to explain to him that a more modern business model/approach could significantly reduce operating costs and extend reach of potential consumers to drive both profit margin and dollars. Not to mention sustainably improve data accuracy.

 

silly internet users and their desire for better accessibility and correctness

[mrwoogieman]

But comic book collecting itself is sort of an "analog" endeavor these days, isn't it? So why shouldn't the price guide/bible be that way as well?

 

[jjonahjameson1]

Over the years, some of the Market Reports have become so generic that they are absolutely useless. The Dentists' immediately come to mind.

 

Other 'reports' are incredibly self-serving promotions of someone's convention or awards ceremony or new store and waste valuable space that could (should) be allocated towards worthwhile insight and information.

[chrisco37]

Over the years, some of the Market Reports have become so generic that they are absolutely useless. The Dentists' immediately come to mind.

 

Other 'reports' are incredibly self-serving promotions of someone's convention or awards ceremony or new store and waste valuable space that could (should) be allocated towards worthwhile insight and information.

 

I haven't picked up a guide in a few years. I need to get one as I always liked the Market Reports.

 

However, much of what you say is true. How many times have we read a report that says something like "Westerns have really picked up steam" or "Classics Illustrated sells briskly". Really?

[TomG]

Thanks for the info comicwiz.

An online functional website would remedy some of this

From a earlier post - how nice that would be!

I spoke to bob in great detail about this 2 years ago but unfortunately he told me in no uncertain terms that ospg would "never" be an online guide or have an online version. It's "his" guide and be made it clear to me he would not publish it any other way.

 

Well, then we know that the answer to an online guide and no need to continue this conversation further.

 

To be fair to all parties and price guides whether online or not the marketplace has rapidly changed over the past decade. The speed of information has never been properly handled on the guide end of things nor has the historical data. I for one would love to see a day when this is properly handled by a party who is looking to make the marketplace as transparent and level as possible for both collectors and dealers. I have been personally out of working on "price guides" for well over a year now. My only limited involvement has been to supply historical and some pricing data to Overstreet. Whether they choose to use it or not is their choice.

 

About 7 years ago I drafted a proposal regarding how to create an online price guide platform, but has never been used. If a proper party was interested I would consider to consult and perhaps be involved in such an undertaking if it were done correctly.

 

 

 

 

[comicwiz]

The speed of information has never been properly handled on the guide end of things nor has the historical data. I for one would love to see a day when this is properly handled by a party who is looking to make the marketplace as transparent and level as possible for both collectors and dealers.

 

I agree. Apart from the fact that you can never satisfy everyone's opinion on pricing, technology is really the no holds barred aspect that can make a dynamic reporting tool realistic.

 

However, where it all falls apart at the seems is the sourcing. As a hobbyist in other collecting categories, there is practically a thread each week about pricing manipulation on eBay or other online auction sites. Due to interest heating up with Star Wars licensed collectibles, there are literally threads popping-up every couple of days where people are dissecting and analyzing sales, tracking relists, and other online evidence that sellers are artificially driving-up values.

 

The transparency aspect is key, and quite frankly, very few people want to bother actually rolling-up the sleeves to do the requisite research to finding a "mean" or "average" price, or to dig deep enough to track the actual listing to determine the reliability of the data point. When you are using a sole source or service that aggregates this information at wholesale, there is always a flaw that no algorithm can easily detect without human intervention.

 

As much as I love the digital age, and all the opportunities it has presented me, I have always taken the approach that the technological "hand-off" needs to happen at some point for human judgement to pick up the inadequacies or limitations.

 

Unless an online service is going to capture a screenshot of every source, and/or a copy of the page for historical review, to me the analog and/or print source will readily win out in the areas of credibility, reliability and as far as qualitative data is concerned.

[TomG]

The speed of information has never been properly handled on the guide end of things nor has the historical data. I for one would love to see a day when this is properly handled by a party who is looking to make the marketplace as transparent and level as possible for both collectors and dealers.

 

I agree. Apart from the fact that you can never satisfy everyone's opinion on pricing, technology is really the no holds barred aspect that can make a dynamic reporting tool realistic.

 

However, where it all falls apart at the seems is the sourcing. As a hobbyist in other collecting categories, there is practically a thread each week about pricing manipulation on eBay or other online auction sites. Due to interest heating up with Star Wars licensed collectibles, there are literally threads popping-up every couple of days where people are dissecting and analyzing sales, tracking relists, and other online evidence that sellers are artificially driving-up values.

 

The transparency aspect is key, and quite frankly, very few people want to bother actually rolling-up the sleeves to do the requisite research to finding a "mean" or "average" price, or to dig deep enough to track the actual listing to determine the reliability of the data point. When you are using a sole source or service that aggregates this information at wholesale, there is always a flaw that no algorithm can easily detect without human intervention.

 

As much as I love the digital age, and all the opportunities it has presented me, I have always taken the approach that the technological "hand-off" needs to happen at some point for human judgement to pick up the inadequacies or limitations.

 

Unless an online service is going to capture a screenshot of every source, and/or a copy of the page for historical review, to me the analog and/or print source will readily win out in the areas of credibility, reliability and as far as qualitative data is concerned.

 

I agree that there is a human aspect needed and I can account for it in regards to my idea. We all know that data has to be objectively looked in regards to pricing.

 

In some cases the coin world has done a better job then the comic world. For example the gray sheet of coins notes a rare sale price for a piece sold they don't price examples and grades with non-sale values. We can easily price a 8.5 Spider-Man #1, but can we establish a price for a 9.2 Action #1? Why not only price a book up to a certain grade and above those only note actual sales prices..