Is this guy serious??

[blowout]

27k without a scan!!!!

 

Who needs a scan, they are CGC books.

[COI]

Submission bias. I'd venture a guess that the demand for that cover/book is a lot more than 26 people, especially since it's in the price range that a lot of people can afford.

 

True, but high demand dosen't make a book "very tough in grade". ASM is the most collected title in the hobby, bar none, but I'd think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would consider any post-#24 issues "tough books". Even #28, which has the reputation, isn't a book I would consider "tough". ASM is my primary collecting interest, and I would love to call them "tough books", but the only thing tough about them is coming up with the cash for 9.4+ copies.

 

Another reason I mention this is that I would be cautions of buying any top census, post-68' non-key(nice cover, but it's not a key) with a relatively low guide value, as I'd wager there are more than a few NM and NM+ copies still out there, as well as a few future 9.8's.

[Stark This-migration]

I am one that you usually believes that there is a sucker for every occasion, but in this case, I really really hope that proves to be false.

[heartened]

Hi,

 

This whole issue has been skewed by CGC. Nothing is really "tough in grade" anymore, actually. Any day of the week I can now find AF 15 in 9.4, ASM 1 in 9.4, etc. etc. Just check three of the big websites, and there they are! This is what CGC did... the "finding" is not longer the problem, but the "buying" is.

 

I still believe certain books are togher to find, because I spent decades looking for some of these and could not find true NM's. I found the Subby #8, but the ASM #28 took me many years, and the best I could do was a solid NM-. With CGC, it has all changed. Nothing is tough anymore, just expensive.

 

So, when I determine what's "tough", I don't just look at the census... I try to remember what really was tough before CGC rolled out. And, Subby #8 was one of them. That's all.

 

Once CGC came out, all the high grade and tough books and key books were slabbed first.... that makes a skewed census. Additionally, it makes everything look so easy (and it in fact is). The hunt is gone.... and, as far as I'm concerned, that was more than half the fun.

[Sharkey]

 

Once CGC came out, all the high grade and tough books and key books were slabbed first.... that makes a skewed census. Additionally, it makes everything look so easy (and it in fact is). The hunt is gone.... and, as far as I'm concerned, that was more than half the fun.

 

 

I agree, but not that the joy of the hunt has been lessened by CGC. It's been lessened by eBay and web sites with huge inventories listed. There's something exciting about making a trip to a virgin (to me) comic shop or convention somewhere and not knowing what I'll find. I remember thinking Spider-Man 1 was a tough book until I went to my first Chicago Comicon back when it was at the hotel in Rosemont and not the convention center. I never saw so many Amazing Spidey 1's in my life!!!! Ebay is like that times 100. On any given week you find pretty much any Silver Age book up for sale. Although it's great from a completionist point of view, it's not nearly as fun as going somewhere, pawing through some bins and not knowing what the next book is going to be.....

 

You're right, the slabbing has raised the prices of the books in an unbelievable way. Is this simply a result of slabbing, or is it really of the advent of selling through the web, where one can get immediate sale of an item that is believed to be rare, even if it isn't truly rare? And there is a much higher potential selling audience than if you had a slabbed book sitting at a store where it might sit for 6 months or a year if there was no internet and no ebay?

 

And perhaps in addition due to the fact that buying through the web precludes you from viewing a book like you would at a convention. Thus the need for 3rd party verification. Once people started getting ripped off from ebay and web purchases they wanted a way to KNOW something was as advertised.

 

Ah, the philosphy of comic book collecting....If you slabbed a book but nobody saw it would it still be a 9.4?

[heartened]

Hi,

 

Don't get me wrong... I'm not really complaining, but rather just making an observation. I'm largely out of the comic book hobby these days, so I'm just watching from the sidelines. But, when I was collecting, I was VERY active and only collected high-grade key books... and it was harder, but more fun.

 

You're right... not just CGC, but ebay, websites, etc. It's good and bad, of course. I think this is part of the reason I switched to collecting original art instead. It's more fun because you still have to look quite hard to find the things you really want. And, ebay hasn't taken away from the fun of collecting original art because almost nothing high-quality or vintage is offered on ebay anymore (just my opinion, of course). About 90% of the art on my site I got from other collectors.... not from dealers, not from websites and definitely not from ebay. So, the thrill of the hunt lives on....

[shrunkenhead]

This makes sense to me. When you've got a piece of original art, you're the only one in the world with that work. That makes the search for art a hunt, regardless of the medium in which one does the searching.

 

To a slightly lesser extent, I think the same is true of highgrade GA books (my collecting interest). If you've got a pre-1960 book slabbed at 9.0, you'll almost never need to consider an upgrade. The books simply don't exist. It was the age of disposable comics, after all.

 

If anyone's feeling disheartened by the new mediums for comic buying, or if you feel like the "hunt" is gone, I'd suggest dabbling in something outside of silver from time to time...the quest can still be fun!

[Sharkey]

Hi,

 

Don't get me wrong... I'm not really complaining, but rather just making an observation. I'm largely out of the comic book hobby these days, so I'm just watching from the sidelines. But, when I was collecting, I was VERY active and only collected high-grade key books... and it was harder, but more fun.

 

You're right... not just CGC, but ebay, websites, etc. It's good and bad, of course. I think this is part of the reason I switched to collecting original art instead. It's more fun because you still have to look quite hard to find the things you really want. And, ebay hasn't taken away from the fun of collecting original art because almost nothing high-quality or vintage is offered on ebay anymore (just my opinion, of course). About 90% of the art on my site I got from other collectors.... not from dealers, not from websites and definitely not from ebay. So, the thrill of the hunt lives on....

 

Oh yeah, I love the hobby. And agree that somehow it's just not quite as "fun". Maybe it's me just getting old and jaded, but I think that the deluge of available books online makes them seem less special.

 

Your art collection rocks! I have a few pages of early Ditko and Kirby stuff, and hope to add to it. I've been to your site. Had to stop because the drool pooled on my keyboard and short-circuited it.

[sterlingcomics]

27k without a scan!!!!

 

 

Exactly! Where's the scans? Even if the guy was offering them at $5,000 I would't even dream of bidding unless there were pix!!!

 

Got to love ebay......

 

"sorry, scanner's not working"

Let's see, wants to make over 4x the going rate, no scans...

[sellinMyYouth]

Look at feed backs from Buyers...

Jan of 03 big old neutral...

 

"Friendly, prompt e-mails, but comics are 97% trashed (big creases or tears)."

 

Wonder if they just did not show up in the scans???

[heartened]

Yeah, maybe I'm getting old and jaded too

 

Thanks for the compliments on the collection. I only have one Kirby example and one Ditko example, but I'm still looking for that one special Kirby example, maybe a nice FF or Cap page. A nice Ditko Dr. Strange page is also on my "to get" list someday. The prices have gotten so out of control lately that I can't afford to buy art as often as I used to even a couple years ago.

 

I'm still reeling from the price I paid for my latest Bolland Killing Joke page, but still no regrets fortunately!

[tth2]

Hi,

 

This whole issue has been skewed by CGC. Nothing is really "tough in grade" anymore, actually. Any day of the week I can now find AF 15 in 9.4, ASM 1 in 9.4, etc. etc. Just check three of the big websites, and there they are! This is what CGC did... the "finding" is not longer the problem, but the "buying" is.

 

I still believe certain books are togher to find, because I spent decades looking for some of these and could not find true NM's. I found the Subby #8, but the ASM #28 took me many years, and the best I could do was a solid NM-. With CGC, it has all changed. Nothing is tough anymore, just expensive.

 

So, when I determine what's "tough", I don't just look at the census... I try to remember what really was tough before CGC rolled out. And, Subby #8 was one of them. That's all.

 

Once CGC came out, all the high grade and tough books and key books were slabbed first.... that makes a skewed census. Additionally, it makes everything look so easy (and it in fact is). The hunt is gone.... and, as far as I'm concerned, that was more than half the fun.

 

Kinda goes hand in hand. Higher prices realized for CGC'd books has driven more supply. I think you're right about HG Marvels being much more available now, although AF 15 and ASM 1 are perhaps not the best indicators because they've ALWAYS been among the most commonly available of the Marvel SA mega-keys in high grade.

 

I have been most surprised at how frequently JIM 83 has publicly appeared in 9.4, as I definitely thought it was one of the toughest mega-keys to find in true NM in the old days. But public appearances of FF 1, IH 1, ST 101 & 110, TOS 39 and TTA 27 in 9.4 continue to be rare or non-existent.

 

If you want the thrill of the hunt back, look for pre-1964 SA DC in NM. No, on second thought, please don't.

[tth2]

You're right, the slabbing has raised the prices of the books in an unbelievable way. Is this simply a result of slabbing, or is it really of the advent of selling through the web, where one can get immediate sale of an item that is believed to be rare, even if it isn't truly rare?

 

Mostly, I think the rise of prices for slabbed books reflects the relief over the certainty in the grade and the absence of restoration. No more fears that the book you're buying is going to turn out to be a much lower grade than you were paying for, and most importantly, no fears that a subsequent buyer won't accept your grade in turn.

 

The acceptance of a third-party grade has in turn then facilitated the robustness of public transactions being conducted over eBay, Heritage (Greg Manning in the old days), and dealer websites, which in turn has led to much greater price transparency. Now, people can see very easily for themselves what prices are being realized for books, and if the trends are upwards or downward, rather than relying on second- or third-hand reports. So whereas someone before may have thought it was crazy to pay X for a 9.4 X-Men 94, when they go on eBay and see that 35 bidders were willing to pay that price, then there is a realization that perhaps that is the price you have to pay to get that book.

[Aman619]

You're right, the slabbing has raised the prices of the books in an unbelievable way. Is this simply a result of slabbing, or is it really of the advent of selling through the web, where one can get immediate sale of an item that is believed to be rare, even if it isn't truly rare?

 

Mostly, I think the rise of prices for slabbed books reflects the relief over the certainty in the grade and the absence of restoration. No more fears that the book you're buying is going to turn out to be a much lower grade than you were paying for, and most importantly, no fears that a subsequent buyer won't accept your grade in turn.

 

The acceptance of a third-party grade has in turn then facilitated the robustness of public transactions being conducted over eBay, Heritage (Greg Manning in the old days), and dealer websites, which in turn has led to much greater price transparency. Now, people can see very easily for themselves what prices are being realized for books, and if the trends are upwards or downward, rather than relying on second- or third-hand reports. So whereas someone before may have thought it was crazy to pay X for a 9.4 X-Men 94, when they go on eBay and see that 35 bidders were willing to pay that price, then there is a realization that perhaps that is the price you have to pay to get that book.

 

great points ... but, as to the first paragraph, which I agree with 100%, check out the thread in general about slab damage, since it represents a growing threat to the idyllic state you describe.

[tth2]

great points ... but, as to the first paragraph, which I agree with 100%, check out the thread in general about slab damage, since it represents a growing threat to the idyllic state you describe.

 

Good point. But I bet there are still a lot of people out there who will buy books that have slab damage, on the basis that as long as it stays inside the slab, that's the grade.

[heartened]

Unfortunately, they can't stay in the slabs forever. And, I think, in time people will start to pay closer attention to whether a book graded 9.6 actually looks 9.6 and that no interim damage has occurred. This may pose a problem in the future, as collectors become less well-versed at actually grading a comic book. This used to be a skill that separated the seasoned collectors from the newer ones, but that unfortunately is changing with the advent of CGC.

[heartened]

Regarding Silver Age DC books, you're completely right... they are much tougher to find in high-grade. There's no question there. I spent years looking for a nice Showcase 34, and it took literally a decade to find one in true NM.

[tth2]

Regarding Silver Age DC books, you're completely right... they are much tougher to find in high-grade. There's no question there. I spent years looking for a nice Showcase 34, and it took literally a decade to find one in true NM.

 

Were you the buyer of the Western Penn copy at Heritage?

[tth2]

This may pose a problem in the future, as collectors become less well-versed at actually grading a comic book. This used to be a skill that separated the seasoned collectors from the newer ones, but that unfortunately is changing with the advent of CGC.

 

Interesting point, I had not thought about the impact of CGC on grading skills until now, and what you say could turn out to be true. However, on further thought, I actually think CGC will have an overall good impact, for two reasons: first is that people can now benchmark their grading skills by submitting their books to CGC, and therefore learn (or confirm) what is a 8.0, what is a 9.4, etc. Second is that due to the high prices of CGC books, most starting collectors will not jump straight into CGC'd books, and will still have to learn their way up the hobby. The only newbies that I could see jumping straight in and throwing big money at slabbed books without having any experience in buying raw books will be speculators/investors.

[heartened]

No, I bought the Slobodian copy (raw) back in the mid-90s, and had it graded about two years ago. Came back 9.4, so it was the first 9.4 on the census.