Is this guy serious??

[heartened]

Actually, I disagree. I think most starting collectors will jump right into the CGC fray BECAUSE they can't grade and because they don't want to get a restored book. It's the reality of the situation. I see your point, and it's logical... but it's not what's happening, from what I can see.

 

Believe it or not, I'm actually a fan of CGC and I trust the guys there... I know them all, and I remember when they were asking us collectors about whether or not to start it up. I distinctly remember Steve and I talking about it at a NY sho five or six years ago, and I told him it was a good idea and I'd support it. Now, 5 or 6 years later, I'm just reflecting on the impact they've made, both good and bad.

[linmoth]

Tim: Check out JP's website for the Showcase 34 Western Penn.

 

Tom

[tth2]

Tim: Check out JP's website for the Showcase 34 Western Penn.

 

Tom

 

JP's website doesn't seem to be functioning right now. What price is he asking? That copy needs to be reunited with its brothers, 35 and 36.

[tth2]

Never mind, I can see the prices now. Now I know where your Western Penn MGAs ended up too.

[Rival61-migration]

Well, I don't think I can agree with the concensus here. If you are a high-grade completist there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that unlimited pockets is not enough to purchase your run without sending in piles to CGC for slabbing yourself and hoping for the 9.8.

 

I have been working for years on my Captain Marvel collection (Marvel V1). I spend quite a bit of time hunting CGC high grade, and have put together a decent batch. So many of the "common" issues have languished in 25cent bins and been thrashed and used as birdcage bottom fillers that finding a full run in high grade is for all intents and purposes impossible. Few people saved them, fewer took care of them, and not many people would risk the CGC fee and 4 months of waiting on a non-key issue. An example: #15: Highest grade to date, 9.2. 3 of them. the other 2 are 8.5 and below. I just got two of them back from PGC, and the gave mine a 8.5 and an 8.0. Since no 9.8 has ever been slabbed, no 9.6, no 9.4, you have to settle for a 9.2, IF you can pry them from the hands of the other completelist who will never let them go until they upgrade. This cover is TOUGH with the black background, had an extremely low distribution, and only completists would save it. A 9.4 would realize a price that would make overstreet pee his pants, with a good number of bidders trying to upgrade/obtain.

 

Sure, you can buy any of the 1 zillion Captain Marvel #1 9.8's any day of the week. But I have the only 9.8 #8 for example, and it aint going anywhere. I'm keeping it till the grave, and thats a good 30 years off if I am lucky. So you could hunt for years and never find it for your collection. You have to settle for one of the 9.6's.

 

This guy did'nt settle. Is it worth $27,000? I can't honestly say it isn't, although I would not pay that personally. But then again, I'm not a Subby fan.

 

-Rival

[tth2]

Well, I don't think I can agree with the concensus here. If you are a high-grade completist there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that unlimited pockets is not enough to purchase your run without sending in piles to CGC for slabbing yourself and hoping for the 9.8.

 

I have been working for years on my Captain Marvel collection (Marvel V1). I spend quite a bit of time hunting CGC high grade, and have put together a decent batch. So many of the "common" issues have languished in 25cent bins and been thrashed and used as birdcage bottom fillers that finding a full run in high grade is for all intents and purposes impossible. Few people saved them, fewer took care of them, and not many people would risk the CGC fee and 4 months of waiting on a non-key issue. An example: #15: Highest grade to date, 9.2. 3 of them. the other 2 are 8.5 and below. I just got two of them back from PGC, and the gave mine a 8.5 and an 8.0. Since no 9.8 has ever been slabbed, no 9.6, no 9.4, you have to settle for a 9.2, IF you can pry them from the hands of the other completelist who will never let them go until they upgrade. This cover is TOUGH with the black background, had an extremely low distribution, and only completists would save it. A 9.4 would realize a price that would make overstreet pee his pants, with a good number of bidders trying to upgrade/obtain.

 

Sure, you can buy any of the 1 zillion Captain Marvel #1 9.8's any day of the week. But I have the only 9.8 #8 for example, and it aint going anywhere. I'm keeping it till the grave, and thats a good 30 years off if I am lucky. So you could hunt for years and never find it for your collection. You have to settle for one of the 9.6's.

 

This guy did'nt settle. Is it worth $27,000? I can't honestly say it isn't, although I would not pay that personally. But then again, I'm not a Subby fan.

 

-Rival

 

You're absolutely right that books that guide for a low price are less likely to get slabbed, and if they haven't gotten slabbed then they won't attract the kind of nosebleed prices that will drive other collectors to slab their copies and put them on the market. However, I think there's a big difference between paying a big price for a HG slabbed book because you think it's rare in HG, period, whether slabbed or not, and paying a big price for a HG slabbed book because not many copies have been slabbed yet, even if you think there's a good likelihood that other similarly nice copies are sitting out there raw.

 

If you genuinely crave a HG slabbed Captain Marvel #15 and think the reason more have not appeared yet is because of the low price, have you considered making it known to dealers that you would pay "X" price for a 9.8 CGC copy? If the price you offer is high enough, it could very well incentivize them to look for a really sharp copy, whereas normally they might not bother. I think you'd be surprised how quickly a copy would emerge, at least in 9.6. Don't underestimate how many ultra-HG copies of this book, and others from the same period, are sitting out there, and not just in collectors' collections.

[*paull*]

Let's face it, Captain Marvel rivals Not Brand Ecch as one of the least desirable titles in the Marvel Silver Age. They would come out of the woodwork if people wanted them.

[blowout]

Let's face it, Captain Marvel rivals Not Brand Ecch as one of the least desirable titles in the Marvel Silver Age.

 

[Rival61-migration]

"Let's face it, Captain Marvel rivals Not Brand Ecch as one of the least desirable titles in the Marvel Silver Age. They would come out of the woodwork if people wanted them."

 

A 9.8 CM #33 just sold this week for $320.00 on ebay. I was suprised it went so low, and you cannot just attribute this to be a "Thanos appearance" bump. This non-key sold for a price like your average non-key 9.8 copy of ASM from the same period, or even FF. Since I have a vested interest, I have been tracking the CM prices for some time. They are going through the ceiling, and get snatched up quickly whenever they hit the market. I have seen several non-key CM's bumping up on the $1000.00 range now (with pedigree, but still huge). I would think an astute dealer would have picked up on that trend and slabbed a few of those high grade copys lying around, if he had them. If I had a stack of 9.6-9.8's lying around, I would be crazy not to capitalize. I think we all know that just about any 15cent issue in 9.8 from any series will command a nosebleed price with no correlation whatsoever to overstreet. Wheteher this is driven by a lack of high grade copies being submitted or a lack of high grade copies existing is open for debate. But the situation does currently exist.

[*paull*]

I agree with you that ultra high-grade books, regardless of OS, are selling for ridiculous prices. Even awful non-key Bronze books are through the roof when in 9.6-9.8. But I think you'll agree with me that books like Captain Marvel drop off significantly, much more so than other popular titles, when you drop from these grades. It's always going to be this way... the character isn't suddenly going to catch fire.

 

By the way, I'm not knocking the Captain Marvel series or your enjoyment of it. I like a lot of things that aren't considered 'popular' or 'valuable'. I find it refreshing that someone takes an interest in unusual stuff instead of endlessly talking about ASM or X-Men.

[heartened]

I wouldn't say Captain Marvel is "unusual". Everything changes over time, and don't fall into the trap of thinking that what's popular today is what will always be popular. Back in the 70s, Captain Marvel, Warlock and all the Starlin titles were some of the most popular characters and arguably one of the best storylines out there. Let's not forget that X-Men was canceled during that time period! How 'bout that!!

 

I started this thread, but I'll be the first to admit that Subby and Captain Marvel are definitely important characters, and important runs. And, from a purely aesthetic point of view, all of those early covers by Colan and Buscema on Captain Marvel and Subby (respectively), were some of the flat-out best covers of the Silver Age. If you don't believe me, go take a look.