When did pressing a comic before every sub become the norm?

[fantastic_four]

To some folks, getting stiffed on a $50 book is beyond the pale.

 

Nobody restores a $50 book other than someone doing it to learn the craft. A handful of people might press a $50 book themselves if they have the knowledge and the tools to do it, but nobody sends a $50 book off to be charged close to $50 to have it pressed.

Sorry but I just don't believe this. I feel certain that there are plenty of cases of people sending $50 and less books to be pressed in the hopes of getting 9.8s.

 

THAT group is even tinier than the high-end market group is--you're talking about maybe a hundred people on the entire planet doing what you're describing, and I'd be shocked if it were two hundred. This is becoming a tangent--the original point is that the vast majority of the comics market doesn't give a mess about pressing because they never, ever think about restoration because it isn't something that they ever see on the cheaper books they buy--just trying to keep perspective on the market as a whole in the face of the sweeping generalities being tossed about. (thumbs u

[fantastic_four]

The majority of the people - the 99% of the market that don't post here - consider pressing to be restoration, as it always has been.

 

No they don't--the overwhelming majority of that 99% haven't thought about it one way or the other because restoration isn't something they ever think about. Unless you were referring exclusively to the high-end market, and if you were, I suspect a bit more than 1% of that segment has posted here at some point.

 

So if you don't post here, you don't know about restoration?

 

Ooooookay.

 

Why are you assuming that the 99% of people who don't post here automatically consider pressing to be restoration? That's a mighty big assumption

 

OK, I'll give you that...a bit of exaggeration on my part.

 

What I'm saying is that if you don't do the CGC thing, but are aware of grading/restoration issues, you'll be old school Overstreet and will consider pressing to be resto.

 

It was CGC that changed that classification.

 

CGC's stand on it is odd. I, again, think it all comes down to the ease of detection. CGC is grading hundreds of books a day most likely. It must be imposible to tell if they've been restored and/or pressed. I think this is even more true of modern books then anything.

 

And they can't go back on their stance now. It'd be way too difficult.

 

It would be against their interests to be able to detect pressing so it's not like they would ever even want to try.

 

The art world that gave we comic book collectors all of our restoration and restoration detection techniques just called and wanted me to tell you what a strange ledge you've walked yourself out onto.

[Flaming_Telepath]

To some folks, getting stiffed on a $50 book is beyond the pale.

 

Nobody restores a $50 book other than someone doing it to learn the craft. A handful of people might press a $50 book themselves if they have the knowledge and the tools to do it, but nobody sends a $50 book off to be charged close to $50 to have it pressed.

 

Incorrect.

 

Folk fiddle with their books for many reasons, at any value, and here's an extract from my site of all the restored books I have. Please note grades and values...

 

1st Issue Special 5 FN- Restored - colour touch to cover $1.65

Action Comics 268 G+ Restored - cover glued into place $9.00

Action Comics 295 FR Restored - staples added $2.50

Action Comics 302 FR Restored - cover glued into place $1.90

Action Comics 317 G+ Restored - colour touch to cover $3.40

Action Comics 323 VG+ Restored - colour touch to cover $5.40

Action Comics 343 VG Restored - colour touch to cover $4.20

Action Comics 401 G+ Restored - colour touch to cover $1.15

Adventure Comics 436 VG Restored - page/cover tear sealed $2.40

Amazing Spider-Man 189 VG Restored - colour touch to cover $6.00

Amazing Spider-Man 190 FN- Restored - colour touch to cover $8.25

Amazing Spider-Man 192 FN- Restored - colour touch to cover $5.50

Amazing Spider-Man Annual 5 VG- Restored - page/cover tear sealed $6.40

Aquaman 15 FN Restored - detached centrefold glued into place $10.00

Armageddon 2001 1 VFN+ Restored - page/cover tear sealed $0.95

Astonishing Tales 6 G Restored - staples added $1.20

Avengers 97 G/VG Restored - colour touch to cover $2.70

Avengers 99 VG Restored - colour touch to cover $3.00

Brave And The Bold, The 61 VG- Restored - cover glued into place $6.30

Brave And The Bold, The 74 VG+ Restored - colour touch to cover $4.05

Brave And The Bold, The 103 FN- Restored - colour touch to cover $2.45

Brave And The Bold, The 112 FR Restored - cover glued into place $1.05

Captain America 116 G Restored - staples added $1.20

Detective Comics 360 G/VG Restored - colour touch to cover $3.60

Doom Patrol 98 G Restored - glue along spine $2.40

Doom Patrol 102 FN Restored - colour touch to cover $5.50

E-Man 2 VG/FN Restored - colour touch to cover $1.50

Fantastic Four 53 VG/FN Restored - page/cover tear sealed $12.00

Fantastic Four 55 FN+ Restored - colour touch to cover $21.00

Fantastic Four 59 VFN- Restored - colour touch to cover $18.45

Fantastic Four 64 FN+ Restored - edge(s) trimmed $9.25

Fantastic Four 94 VG- Restored - glue along spine $3.15

Fantastic Four 144 FN- Restored - colour touch to cover $3.30

Iron Man 190 FN+ Restored - colour touch to cover $0.55

Jimmy Olsen, Superman's Pal 91 G+ Restored - staples added $1.90

Justice League Of America 19 G+ Restored - colour touch to cover $7.50

Justice League Of America 72 G Restored - page/cover tear sealed $1.50

Kamandi, The Last Boy On Earth 16 FN Restored - colour touch to cover $1.80

Lois Lane, Superman's Girl Friend 74 VG- Restored - colour touch to cover $3.15

Marvel Team-Up 7 FR Restored - staples added $0.65

Marvel Team-Up 26 G+ Restored - staples added $0.60

Marvel Team-Up 29 G- Restored - page/cover tear sealed $0.50

Marvel Team-Up 89 VG/FN Restored - colour touch to cover $0.55

Not Brand Echh 8 G/VG Restored - glue along spine $1.80

Phantom Stranger, The 6 VG/FN Restored - edge(s) trimmed $3.75

Sgt. Fury 107 G+ Restored - staples added $1.00

Sub-Mariner 58 VG+ Restored - page/cover tear sealed $1.35

Superboy 111 FR/GD Restored - page/cover tear sealed $2.00

Superboy 116 G+ Restored - staples added $3.40

Superboy 131 VG- Restored - page/cover tear sealed $3.70

Superboy 136 VG/FN Restored - colour touch to cover $5.25

Superboy 156 G Restored - page/cover tear sealed $2.10

Superman 181 G+ Restored - glue along spine $3.40

Superman Annual 8 G- Restored - glue along spine $2.80

Swamp Thing 24 VG Restored - colour touch to cover $1.80

Teen Titans 23 FN- Restored - colour touch to cover $4.15

Thor 243 FN- Restored - page/cover tear sealed $1.65

World's Finest 108 G+ Restored - glue along spine $4.90

World's Finest 197 G/VG Restored - glue along spine $2.70

 

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

To some folks, getting stiffed on a $50 book is beyond the pale.

 

Nobody restores a $50 book other than someone doing it to learn the craft. A handful of people might press a $50 book themselves if they have the knowledge and the tools to do it, but nobody sends a $50 book off to be charged close to $50 to have it pressed.

Sorry but I just don't believe this. I feel certain that there are plenty of cases of people sending $50 and less books to be pressed in the hopes of getting 9.8s.

 

That's certainly true. This year alone I've sent in hundreds of copper books that I had less than a buck into a piece for pressing and submission.

[rjpb]

To some folks, getting stiffed on a $50 book is beyond the pale.

 

Nobody restores a $50 book other than someone doing it to learn the craft.

 

I think you're wrong on this one. I've gone thru some SA books i bought back in the early 90's and found more than a few with amateur color touch. These were NOT expensive books either. back then, they were $20-50 books and even now would be worth at absolute most a couple hundred if that.

 

Considering it takes about 15 seconds to do amateur color touch on a black cover book, it sometimes shows up on books that were worth only a couple of bucks at the time it was done. A lot of amateur work done on comics back in the day like color touch, tape, glue, trimming, and yes pressing out spine roll under a stack of heavy books, was done as much to improve appearance or preserve the comic ( though not always successfully) as it was done to increase value.

[Green]

To some folks, getting stiffed on a $50 book is beyond the pale.

 

Nobody restores a $50 book other than someone doing it to learn the craft.

 

I think you're wrong on this one. I've gone thru some SA books i bought back in the early 90's and found more than a few with amateur color touch. These were NOT expensive books either. back then, they were $20-50 books and even now would be worth at absolute most a couple hundred if that.

 

Magic markers and Sharpies are cheap, so that I'll believe. The 90s was a very different time, and $20 back then meant a lot more than it does today. Pressing is harder than using a magic marker is.

 

forest, trees, all that.

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

 

For most anti-pressers, that's it in a nutshell. It's the sheer wonder that something could have beat all the odds and remained looking pristine and fresh without any intervention.

 

 

Mile High pedigree sitting in a perfect climate basement and stacked properly to prevent spine roll is "beating the odds." No, that's Edgar church intervening.

 

So you're saying that simply exhibiting common sense when storing your collectibles is the same as paying for a restorative process to enhance the appearance of your book?

 

Really?

[fantastic_four]

To some folks, getting stiffed on a $50 book is beyond the pale.

 

Nobody restores a $50 book other than someone doing it to learn the craft. A handful of people might press a $50 book themselves if they have the knowledge and the tools to do it, but nobody sends a $50 book off to be charged close to $50 to have it pressed.

Sorry but I just don't believe this. I feel certain that there are plenty of cases of people sending $50 and less books to be pressed in the hopes of getting 9.8s.

 

That's certainly true. This year alone I've sent in hundreds of copper books that I had less than a buck into a piece for pressing and submission.

 

The guys doing this are overwhelmingly already a part of the high-end market and just as separate from the average joe rifling through the dollar boxes and dreaming of a mid-grade Hulk 181 as they've always been.

[Green]

To some folks, getting stiffed on a $50 book is beyond the pale.

 

Nobody restores a $50 book other than someone doing it to learn the craft. A handful of people might press a $50 book themselves if they have the knowledge and the tools to do it, but nobody sends a $50 book off to be charged close to $50 to have it pressed.

Sorry but I just don't believe this. I feel certain that there are plenty of cases of people sending $50 and less books to be pressed in the hopes of getting 9.8s.

 

THAT group is even tinier than the high-end market group is--you're talking about maybe a hundred people on the entire planet doing what you're describing, and I'd be shocked if it were two hundred. This is becoming a tangent--the original point is that the vast majority of the comics market doesn't give a mess about pressing because they never, ever think about restoration because it isn't something that they ever see on the cheaper books they buy--just trying to keep perspective on the market as a whole in the face of the sweeping generalities being tossed about. (thumbs u

 

You have a very ignorant view of the state of the hobby. I probably know 200 ppl who press and sub cheap copper/moderns myself.

[fantastic_four]

Magic markers and Sharpies are cheap, so that I'll believe. The 90s was a very different time, and $20 back then meant a lot more than it does today. Pressing is harder than using a magic marker is.

 

forest, trees, all that.

 

Agreed--the myopia is rampant. All some people see around here is the high-end market and have no idea the vast majority of collectors haven't spent more than half a minute thinking about restoration of any kind, much less pressing.

[VintageComics]

Frankly, that bothers me and destroys any illusion that collecting high grade used to have for me. It doesn't have anything to do with money.

 

You're the very last person in the entire forum I'll believe cares nothing about the money at all there, Gordon Gekko. Nobody's saying that's ALL the anti-pressers care about, but to suggest it doesn't matter at all is disingenuous.

 

Gene drives an Aston Martin, lives in Manhattan, collects Gil Elvgren paintings at $100K+ a pop and just about started his own hedge fund. I'm guessing that the outrage for Gene ain't about the money at all.

 

The average person has a very different reaction to, say, a book being pressed or a Hulk #181 being ripped in half than Gene would.

 

Gene, I do agree with you and Nick about the "wonder with no intervention".

 

The truth though, is that there is a sense of wonder whether a book is a 9.2 or a 9.8 at the age of 70 years - the defects are so miniscule in those grade ranges that the appeal of a finding a book preserved in either condition is a sense of wonder...and at arm's lengths they will both look extremely attractive.

 

The market conditions that create the price disparity between grade points are what I believe attracts the majority of emotions though.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

You have a very ignorant view of the state of the hobby. I probably know 200 ppl who press and sub cheap copper/moderns myself.

 

So you're suggesting they're the mainstream of comic collecting now? These people are completely absent from cons I go to. I only encounter them on the Internet, here and the other forums where high-end enthusiasts congregate. I don't go to the big national cons, so perhaps I'm living a sheltered life.

[Spiderphill]

 

For most anti-pressers, that's it in a nutshell. It's the sheer wonder that something could have beat all the odds and remained looking pristine and fresh without any intervention.

 

 

Mile High pedigree sitting in a perfect climate basement and stacked properly to prevent spine roll is "beating the odds." No, that's Edgar church intervening.

 

So you're saying that simply exhibiting common sense when storing your collectibles is the same as paying for a restorative process to enhance the appearance of your book?

 

Really?

intervention is intervention.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

You have a very ignorant view of the state of the hobby. I probably know 200 ppl who press and sub cheap copper/moderns myself.

 

So you're suggesting they're the mainstream of comic collecting now? These people are completely absent from cons I go to. I only encounter them on the Internet, here and the other forums where high-end enthusiasts congregate. I don't go to the big national cons, so perhaps I'm living a sheltered life.

 

Green is more right then you know. I regularly compete with a dozen or so guys just at the Florida shows that rummage through dollar boxes looking to turn $1 books into $100+ certified gems. Heck, Green and I ran into each other about a dozen times at Heroes doing the same thing: going through cheap bin stuff looking for slabbable candidates. Most of us don't even bother with the wall stock (as its usually picked over by dealers the first night), but there are plenty of low lying fruit to be had in bins that most dealers and collectors ignore.

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

 

For most anti-pressers, that's it in a nutshell. It's the sheer wonder that something could have beat all the odds and remained looking pristine and fresh without any intervention.

 

 

Mile High pedigree sitting in a perfect climate basement and stacked properly to prevent spine roll is "beating the odds." No, that's Edgar church intervening.

 

So you're saying that simply exhibiting common sense when storing your collectibles is the same as paying for a restorative process to enhance the appearance of your book?

 

Really?

intervention is intervention.

 

So having a shower is the same as getting breast augmentation?

 

Really?

[Spiderphill]

 

For most anti-pressers, that's it in a nutshell. It's the sheer wonder that something could have beat all the odds and remained looking pristine and fresh without any intervention.

 

 

Mile High pedigree sitting in a perfect climate basement and stacked properly to prevent spine roll is "beating the odds." No, that's Edgar church intervening.

 

So you're saying that simply exhibiting common sense when storing your collectibles is the same as paying for a restorative process to enhance the appearance of your book?

 

Really?

intervention is intervention.

 

So having a shower is the same as getting breast augmentation?

 

Really?

showering = cleaning your comic = restoration. Breast augmentation = color touch. Both the same.

[fantastic_four]

You have a very ignorant view of the state of the hobby. I probably know 200 ppl who press and sub cheap copper/moderns myself.

 

So you're suggesting they're the mainstream of comic collecting now? These people are completely absent from cons I go to. I only encounter them on the Internet, here and the other forums where high-end enthusiasts congregate. I don't go to the big national cons, so perhaps I'm living a sheltered life.

 

Green is more right then you know. I regularly compete with a dozen or so guys just at the Florida shows that rummage through dollar boxes looking to turn $1 books into $100+ certified gems. Heck, Green and I ran into each other about a dozen times at Heroes doing the same thing: going through cheap bin stuff looking for slabbable candidates. Most of us don't even bother with the wall stock (as its usually picked over by dealers the first night), but there are plenty of low lying fruit to be had in bins that most dealers and collectors ignore.

 

I'll buy both of your perspectives and amend my original estimate of them being 0.01% of the overall market all the way up to 0.03%. I won't even niggle if you'd both like to raise the estimate up to 0.05%! Still a tiny portion of the overall market and a small subset of the overall high-end market and not representative of the 99% who think about pressing not at all.

[fantastic_four]

So having a shower is the same as getting breast augmentation?

 

Really?

showering = cleaning your comic = restoration. Breast augmentation = color touch. Both the same.

 

Implants are like adding japan paper. Color touch is more like botox injections.

[DiceX]

 

For most anti-pressers, that's it in a nutshell. It's the sheer wonder that something could have beat all the odds and remained looking pristine and fresh without any intervention.

 

 

Mile High pedigree sitting in a perfect climate basement and stacked properly to prevent spine roll is "beating the odds." No, that's Edgar church intervening.

 

So you're saying that simply exhibiting common sense when storing your collectibles is the same as paying for a restorative process to enhance the appearance of your book?

 

Really?

intervention is intervention.

 

So having a shower is the same as getting breast augmentation?

 

Really?

showering = cleaning your comic = restoration. Breast augmentation = color touch. Both the same.

 

What's a bunghole bleaching? Like having rusty staples cleaned?

 

 

[fantastic_four]

showering = cleaning your comic = restoration. Breast augmentation = color touch. Both the same.

 

What's a bunghole bleaching? Like having rusty staples cleaned?